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Thread: But is it art?

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    But is it art?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Darr,

    Your schoolhouse is a perfect antidote to OnlyFilmCanBeArt disease.

    --Matt
    I thought that, with creative use of state-of-the-art digital, we might be able to cure the "only painting can be art" disease?

    I was talking to a gallery owner the other day, and she said:

    "A photograph is just what was in front of the photographer when (s)he pushed the button."

    So we still have a challenge.

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    I thought that, with creative use of state-of-the-art digital, we might be able to cure the "only painting can be art" disease?

    I was talking to a gallery owner the other day, and she said:

    "A photograph is just what was in front of the photographer when (s)he pushed the button."

    So we still have a challenge.
    What about Staged Photography? Take Jeff Wall for instance... Sure, I guess technically the photograph is still just what's in front of him at the moment he presses the button. But he deliberately places everything as he wants it and press the shutter button hundreds of times to get the right shot.

    I can't believe there are still people out there arguing that photography can't be a legitimate medium for art. Or that it's some how a lesser art.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by homeiss View Post
    I can't believe there are still people out there arguing that photography can't be a legitimate medium for art. Or that it's some how a lesser art.
    I have never heard that in my 30 year photography career. Beware of forum trolls with nothing better to do, but troll.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    I thought that, with creative use of state-of-the-art digital, we might be able to cure the "only painting can be art" disease?

    I was talking to a gallery owner the other day, and she said:

    "A photograph is just what was in front of the photographer when (s)he pushed the button."

    So we still have a challenge.
    While there's no question, at least in my mind, that photography can be art, I don't believe that state-of-the-art digital will help against the skeptics. Since digital cameras make it easier to create photos and since more images are created as a result of the new technology, it probably makes them more skeptical not less. Art is a result of the skill and vision of the artist, not about technology. To me, digital and film based photography are two different art forms, just like oil paintings and water colours are.

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I have never heard that in my 30 year photography career. Beware of forum trolls with nothing better to do, but troll.
    I'm not trolling. I was just responding to Dick's conversation with the gallery owner. By the comment she made, it leads me to believe she thinks of photography as a lesser art form as opposed to other forms of art. Maybe I misread her comments though?
    Last edited by homeiss; 28th June 2012 at 23:31.

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by homeiss View Post
    What about Staged Photography? Take Jeff Wall for instance... Sure, I guess technically the photograph is still just what's in front of him at the moment he presses the button. But he deliberately places everything as he wants it and press the shutter button hundreds of times to get the right shot.

    I can't believe there are still people out there arguing that photography can't be a legitimate medium for art. Or that it's some how a lesser art.
    I think this is very much more the case in the UK, and I think many galleries would rather hang photographers than photographs!

    We have the toolkit to make photography fine art... ¿Is Jeff Wall the 10 *8 user? ...I was thinking of the ability to easily digitally combine different "sketches" into one picture (as painters have done for hundreds of years) but carefully creating the scene before you take the photograph...

    ...and, of course, technical cameras make is possible to improve the perspective of a scene and make it "art" ...so I would argue that this conversation is on topic.

    For landscape photography the art of photography can be being in the right place at the right time (with the right equipment) and taking a photograph of what is in front of you... like my photograph of Fraserbough harbour, which had to be taken:

    ...at the weekend when the boats were in the harbour
    ...at 15:00 when the sun was in the right place
    ...when the sun was shining, and
    ...when the high tide, so that you could see the boats over the quayside.

    I consider that I am a fine art photographer (and not a troll) but there are many galleries in the UK that have never hung a photograph, and need persuading...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    While there's no question, at least in my mind, that photography can be art, I don't believe that state-of-the-art digital will help against the skeptics. Since digital cameras make it easier to create photos and since more images are created as a result of the new technology, it probably makes them more skeptical not less. Art is a result of the skill and vision of the artist, not about technology. To me, digital and film based photography are two different art forms, just like oil paintings and water colours are.
    Many great photographs have been taken without such preparation or post-processing ...in my opinion these are art, but he gallery owner would think that they were "just what was in front of the photographer when they pushed the button."

    As I stated here recently, the art of photography can be the art of pressing the button at the right time, to capture an expression or event!

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    Many great photographs have been taken without such preparation or post-processing ...in my opinion these are art, but he gallery owner would think that they were "just what was in front of the photographer when they pushed the button."

    As I stated here recently, the art of photography can be the art of pressing the button at the right time, to capture an expression or event!
    Absolutely. A quick browse through the archives of Magnum will verify that a thousand times.

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    I think this is very much more the case in the UK, and I think many galleries would rather hang photographers than photographs!

    We have the toolkit to make photography fine art... ¿Is Jeff Wall the 10 *8 user? ...I was thinking of the ability to easily digitally combine different "sketches" into one picture (as painters have done for hundreds of years) but carefully creating the scene before you take the photograph...

    ...and, of course, technical cameras make is possible to improve the perspective of a scene and make it "art" ...so I would argue that this conversation is on topic.

    For landscape photography the art of photography can be being in the right place at the right time (with the right equipment) and taking a photograph of what is in front of you... like my photograph of Fraserbough harbour, which had to be taken:

    ...at the weekend when the boats were in the harbour
    ...at 15:00 when the sun was in the right place
    ...when the sun was shining, and
    ...when the high tide, so that you could see the boats over the quayside.

    I consider that I am a fine art photographer (and not a troll) but there are many galleries in the UK that have never hung a photograph, and need persuading...
    I believe Jeff Wall is retired now, but in his day, he primarily shot 8x10. I only bring him up to show one type of photography that is more than just setting up a camera and pushing the shutter button. Just like the shot you described took a lot of planning. You didn't just walk around and snap a photo. But wait, that's not to say that you couldn't get a fantastic photograph, worthy of being deemed art, while walking around snapping photos. What is "art" anyway? Highly subjective, that's what...


    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    Many great photographs have been taken without such preparation or post-processing ...in my opinion these are art, but he gallery owner would think that they were "just what was in front of the photographer when they pushed the button."

    As I stated here recently, the art of photography can be the art of pressing the button at the right time, to capture an expression or event!
    I wonder how the UK gallery owners feel about Marcel Duchamp taking a urinal, flipping it over, writing "R.Mutt" on it and calling the piece "Fountain"?

    IMO if you make something and call it art, then surely it is art, regardless of what someone else thinks!
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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    this OT discussion maybe should have it's own thread?
    Ditto - where have all the images gone...!
    Come on, don't deprive us of our daily dose.....
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by homeiss View Post
    I'm not trolling. I was just responding to Dick's conversation with the gallery owner. By the comment she made, it leads me to believe she thinks of photography as a lesser art form as opposed to other forms of art. Maybe I misread her comments though?
    I do not think you are trolling; it is the other in the conversation I was pointing to since he continues to "talk" and not show art.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    While there's no question, at least in my mind, that photography can be art, I don't believe that state-of-the-art digital will help against the skeptics. Since digital cameras make it easier to create photos and since more images are created as a result of the new technology, it probably makes them more skeptical not less.
    Sort of what power tools did to sculpture.

    Art is a result of the skill and vision of the artist, not about technology.
    OK

    To me, digital and film based photography are two different art forms, just like oil paintings and water colours are.
    But didn't you just say it was not the technology?




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    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: But is it art?

    while you might find a gallery owner or two with personal biases.. the battle between 'art' and photography was over back in the early 1900's with Stieglitz. A more recent battle .. digital vs photography as art has been a moot point for over a decade now.

    The only place you usually find this battle any more are with hobbyists in forums.

    (speaking about galleries & museums in the US)
    Jim Collum
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Technical Camera Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Sort of what power tools did to sculpture.

    But didn't you just say it was not the technology?



    Yes, I noticed myself but couldn't find a better formulation at the time

    What I mean is, different medium, different kind of art... something like that. It would help a lot if people on this forum would start speaking Norwegian

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