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View Poll Results: What small annual fee for the Buy and Sell forum would improve it?

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43. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, keep everything free. A fee won't help.

    28 65.12%
  • $10 a year

    2 4.65%
  • $20 a year

    1 2.33%
  • $30 a year

    6 13.95%
  • $40 a year

    0 0%
  • $50 a year

    6 13.95%
Results 1 to 32 of 32

Thread: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

  1. #1
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Perhaps it would improve our Buy and Sell forum here to charge a small annual fee. It might keep out the undesirables. What do you think?

    You don't have to leave a comment, but please vote for one of the choices.
    Last edited by bradhusick; 31st August 2012 at 15:11.
    Brad Husick

  2. #2
    Member smartwombat's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I hadn't noticed any undesirables.

  3. #3
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    If the site needs financial help, I am for it. However, I really do not see any reason that it ( a fee to use the BS forum) would keep "undesirables" out.

  4. #4
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    "I really do not see any reason that it ( a fee to use the BS forum) would keep 'undesirables' out."

    I agree. And I wonder if we would agree on who's desirable.

  5. #5
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I do not believe the fee would keep someone from trying to make a large profit, such as the M9M recently posted for sale in the B&S thread. Common sense is the only thing that is going to protect the buyer when making a purchase.

    If the site need to raise funds to support hosting and software updates then an annual fee could be appropriate.

    The Range Finders Forum charges a fee for using the B&S section of their site. I personally would still use the same precautions when buying an item that I use here. Charging someone a fee to post an item for sale does not make the sellor legitimate.

    JMHO

  6. #6
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    First, I haven't noticed a huge problem, but there have been a rash of people looking to make a profit recently. Second, if you have to pay a fee for something, you are going to milk it. Third, if I'm selling something here it is because I am offering a deal to people that I like, other forums refer to it as a "bro-deal." If I have to pay for the privilege of selling my gear at a discount, I'm not going to bother.

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If the site needs financial help, I am for it. However, I really do not see any reason that it ( a fee to use the BS forum) would keep "undesirables" out.
    The site has changed to a cloud base server and yes it is more expensive to maintain. That I know for sure. Jack is the book keeper. I would just buy glass. I'm a whore you know. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I don't see that there is any problem to fix in Buy and Sell, so implementing fees for that alone makes no sense to me.

    I'm against charging fees to limit parts of a site or forum in the general case. If you're going to make this a "for pay" forum, make that policy forum-wide. If you want to keep it free but need some sustaining income, request annual donations and/or do a reasonable job with advertising.

    NOTE: I despise having advertising thrust in my face all the time. It litters the world and the mind. I'd rather pay an annual fee to NOT have advertising.

    A strong NO vote from me.
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Devon Shaw's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I'm still relatively new to the forum, but in the last few years I've probably had 5-10 transactions made via buy/sell and have had no problems. For the most part you can tell a sketchy individual within the first PM or two (if not in the ad itself).

    I have bought and sold a lot via forums, Craigslist, and eBay, and as I see it the largest advantages to dealing in forums are that for the most part gear is priced at what it is worth and that people are relatively knowledgable, honest, and human. While there is the occasional (general intentional) great deal or someone looking only to profit, this forum has been for me the epitome of the advantages of forum marketplaces.

    I see no reason from a usability standpoint why GetDPI should implement a fee to buy and sell.

    Also, I am currently a student (photojournalism), and even a $10 or $20 fee is considerable and would have given me serious pause before beginning to participate in the buy/sell forum. If there is ever any thought to offer some kind of student discount in the Gallery Member Prints For Sale area I would definitely be interested.

  10. #10
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Ok....my vote was for a small fee on an annual basis . This will limit the number of “hit and run” listings . As Guy noted FM does this well and I buy and sell many items there . Feedback is given and maintained by member ..so when you see a listing you can see how active the person has been in the buy sell . Reputations are built on member feedback for both buyers and sellers . This costs some money to maintain and thus the need for a fee.

    If you look at the listings you will see a significant number are from Non participants ...its free ..so why not list it here attitude is prevalent .

    This will not fix the problem of “flipping” , overstating warranty transferability or whatever bugs you today? But it will make the buyer seller history available and limit the infrequent participant .

  11. #11
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    As I stated in another thread (Leica warrenty thread), I know it cost money to keep a site like this up and running and asking for some sort of annual fee or financial contribution is well worth it. As for a fee to use the Buy & Sell, I'm not certain if it will achieve the desired results that have been bandied about. Thats a tougher situation to resolve in a way thats amicable to all and doesn't alienate the many vauable contributers to this site. I guess it opens the doors to a discussion of ideas.

    Dave (D&A)

  12. #12
    Workshop & Subscriber Member manouch shirzad's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    There is a company out there that sends out two millions junk mail everyday, do you think they still would do that if they had to pay
    just one penny for each email?

    I work with a software developing company and we have to spend millions and millions to stop these junk email and spams from reaching our servers and our customers. Yes, junk email is free but do you like to receive them? There is nothing for free but junk e-mail.

    Why buying and selling in a very respected photography forum should be free, try to sell a $10,000 camera on ebay and see how much it would cost you.

    We are blessed that with dedication of owners and moderators of this forum we are able to talk about a common subject for all of us “ PHOTOGRAPHY”.

    There are thousands of websites that I can reach for buying and selling items, but non of them can give me the pleasure and satisfaction of checking for the new posts on this forum.

    I am totally for “Pay Per AD”, and on top of that even to keep this site up and running I’m in favor of annual membership.
    All the members of this forum can afford annual membership.

    Best,
    _______
    Manouch

  13. #13
    Senior Member aleksanderpolo's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I highly doubt that the annual fee will stop all the flipping, consider how much, for example, the MM ad would make if it sell.

    If the B&S board was originally made for the forum participants, why not make it a requirement to have, say, 500 non B&S post before one can place a FS ad? This way it will drive away all the flippers, reduce the work load of the mods, and encourage more participation in the forum.

    The photographic forum here is among the most helpful and friendly out there, but the B&S board seem to be a free-rider's ebay, with all the flipping and endless bumping.

    Finally, I would like the thank the mods for your efforts that were put into running this forum. I understand that most of the stuffs you do are behind the scene and few would appreciate or thank you for it.

  14. #14
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Thanks . There are limits on how we can control the software to do certain blocks and such
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  15. #15
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I did not vote as there is no column that suits me. If there is charge, please make it $100/-.

    I also strongly urge the participants (especially the BS regulars) to subscribe to support the site.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/about-...age-space.html

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I would like to see a a fee of $29-30 a year and a post limit of 40. 500 would be impossible for many who like to participate by reading and don't actually add comments unless they have something important to say. 500 limit might lead to people posting just to bump up their count.
    I would look at the fee as more of a contribution to a site that I support, than a b/s fee.

  17. #17
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I would like to see a a fee of $29-30 a year and a post limit of 40. 500 would be impossible for many who like to participate by reading and don't actually add comments unless they have something important to say. 500 limit might lead to people posting just to bump up their count.
    I would look at the fee as more of a contribution to a site that I support, than a b/s fee.
    Case in point, I have been here since the beginning and this will be my 424th post.

  18. #18
    Senior Member aleksanderpolo's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Ya 500 post might be too much, if there is a way to do word count, that might be more appropriate as people can bump their post count by "+1" "I like it" etc, without real contribution.

  19. #19
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    .... I would just buy glass. I'm a whore you know. LOL
    Ain't nuthin' wrong with that.

    Imho, I think the impetus for a small fee for the B&S forum stems from trying to limit hit and run sellers and perhaps the few unscrupulous sellers, etc. Maybe a minor inconvenience annual fee of $10 could be charged to post in the B&S, but free for those GetDPI annual subscriber members (expanded gallery storage).

    Perhaps the best "buyer-beware" is purchasing from a known quantity, that is, those you know are active participants of the GetDPI family, or known gear whores. In much this same vein, perhaps it would be helpful if the Buy-sell comments/ratings could be attached to individual user-profiles (like FM or ebay) instead of the long anchored comment threads in the B&S forum, where noted transactions tend to get buried after time.

    Of course, I find it much easier to simply follow the first unwritten rule of the GetDPI B&S forum, which is to first offer the item to Jack or Guy. Guy often will feel an insatiable compelling reason to purchase your equipment. Other forum family members will then have the opportunity to purchase the equipment from Guy on the GetDPI B&S forum a few months later ....

    ken

  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    That is the golden rule. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  21. #21
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    fyi, i am typically seeing anywhere from 25-33% FS ads at any given time

  22. #22
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    With a yearly fee, if someone did not pay it would that mean:
    1. they couldn't see any buy/sell posts, or
    2. not be able to post an item for sale.

  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    2 we could lock them out. How it could be done those that pay than we put them in a certain class of member and you have access rights. So each member that pays would be in a group name like workshop member or something like that. We can make the buy and sell visible to all but the problem is you have to be a member to post. So in effect be it a buyer or seller you need to be a member in that group.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  24. #24
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    2 we could lock them out. How it could be done those that pay than we put them in a certain class of member and you have access rights. So each member that pays would be in a group name like workshop member or something like that. We can make the buy and sell visible to all but the problem is you have to be a member to post. So in effect be it a buyer or seller you need to be a member in that group.
    Guy,

    Would that mean that all those buy/sell post wouldn't come up when I click on Today's Posts to see what's been posted lately? They would be in their own section and I wouldn't have to scroll through them to see non-buy/sell posts? Or if you were a member of the buy/sell you'd still have to wade through them?

  25. #25
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    FM forums instituted a fee for their B&S and the entire B&S section went pear shaped, became saturated with the 'professionals' that we are only seeing a few of here. People who don't contribute to the forum in general but sell a huge amount including the buy newly announced gear and sell for a substantial price hike. Not sure of the connection but..
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  26. #26
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    2 we could lock them out. How it could be done those that pay than we put them in a certain class of member and you have access rights. So each member that pays would be in a group name like workshop member or something like that. We can make the buy and sell visible to all but the problem is you have to be a member to post. So in effect be it a buyer or seller you need to be a member in that group.


    So, essentially it is a fee for the sellers?

    Someone who wants to sell a M9M for $9,000/- at the risk of forfeiting a $10 fee..in what way it would deter the "undesirables"?

  27. #27
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    So, essentially it is a fee for the sellers?

    Someone who wants to sell a M9M for $9,000/- at the risk of forfeiting a $10 fee..in what way it would deter the "undesirables"?
    Yes it would be a fee paid to Jack which in turn we would classify a member a certain way through the back end of the software but you as a buyer would still have to be a member to post in that thread. I have to look to see exactly how this all works within the current software as is. Now we may actually depending on how we want it than hire someone to write a custom code. There are some basic things we can do without having to write code for it as its already built in. For instance I could right now just turn off the buy and sell but the forum itself would still function. I know by class I can tick some buttons and only workshop members since they are a class see and post only to buy and sell. So some things we can do but it's limited also. Jack knows the backend much better than I do. So I don't want to get too deep on its functions. But outside what tricks we can do than we could also hire someone to change things . Our sponsor buttons was all custom made for instance.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  28. #28
    Senior Member ecsh's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    An annual fee is not going to stop a seller if he wants to sell something, especially at a large profit. One of the Nikon forums do not let you sell something until you have 300 posts. I have been part of that for three years, and still cannot see the B&S. If you initiate a 50 post minimum before being able to see and post in the B&S, you will get rid of the "quick" kind of posts from the 1-10 post posters which seem to plague this forum. Otherwise, just charge an annual fee if you need funds to help with the server, and institute a post count. YMMV
    Joe.

  29. #29
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    There maybe a way again to do that by making a limit say 150 posts your classification can change to let's say a regular member which than kicks in the buy and sell as it sees that title as regular member. Under 150 your a new member and it's possible to lock out just the buy and sell. Going by this poll 63 percent want it for free, what else is new. This ain't Facebook folks. LOL

    Honestly if we left this up to donations to maintain this site which we have done since day 1 than 98 percent of the members don't donate. I'm just telling you all the facts, for those that have thanks again.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  30. #30
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    I have not been around as much these days, but personally, I think that making the buy and sell a paid service is a bit risky, depending on how your organize it. If you do charge for it, certainly do not make a post threshold or charge to even see it. As a seller, I think most would prefer to cast as wide a net as possible, rather than just limit it to the very active members. I know I probably would not bother to list things here if I had to pay for it and if only active members could see it. I have used the buy and sell forum in the past, and many of my buyers were members from around the world who did not actively post. Some felt uncomfortable because of a language barrier or other reason, but all of the transactions were fine. This is especially true for someone like me who is not in the US, as most of the active members are in the US and not interested in buying things outside the US. As someone said above, it's really common sense that is going to keep you away from bad transactions, not hiding the buy and sell from inactive members.

    So, if there is a fee for buy and sell, at least make it to sell only, not to view the forum. I don't think a fee to sell would bother me much, though I think I would rather have it be general (such as X per year), not on a per transaction basis. I think if it gets too high, however, you will lose a lot of the interesting gear. If I had to sell one or two things, I probably would not pay a yearly fee of 20-30+ just to list an item, especially when there are still other free classifieds with similar readerships (LuLa etc). By charging a high yearly fee, you push the buy and sell forum over to people who are either real buy/sell junkies or professional sellers (in amateur guise, at times). But listing a number of items each with individual 2-5 dollar listing fees, such as at Rangefinder Forum is also a bit of a pain. There is not really an easy solution!
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  31. #31
    Member Dan Ortego's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Strange the voting was closed after only 43 votes as I'm not sure how that could provide any useful baseline. Anywho, I'd gladly pay 10-bucks a year and I haven't listed anything yet. Too lazy I suppose ~

  32. #32
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Small annual fee for Buy and Sell?

    Dan, I created the poll and kept it open for a month.
    Brad Husick

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