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Thread: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    "This is the best technology in the best designed camera"
    "Everybody at the show has said how much they love it. You are the first person to speak negatively about it. Every. Other. Person. Loves. It. "
    "We have professional Hasselblad shooters - world famous photographers - lining up to put their name behind this when it launches."
    "Every Hasselblad owner we have spoken to says they cannot wait to buy this camera. "
    " We have 6 people in R&D working just on the Hasselblad firmware for this camera. "
    " It is a definite possibility that the firmware will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations and other lens defects. "
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  2. #52
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    For those not at Photokina, I should point out that this camera is far, far worse in the flesh than it is in photos.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    " It is a definite possibility that the firmware will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations and other lens defects. "
    NEX-7 has automatic CA corrections, Distortion corrections, Light fall off corrections.

    Sony already worked it out for me.

    Like many, I can not type what I feel about these morons.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If they are riding this one out until April 1st 2013, that's still 7 more months to go!
    Will they then just say Lunacy?
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    For those not at Photokina, I should point out that this camera is far, far worse in the flesh than it is in photos.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Yes. But "the firmware will be re-written by Hasselblad, so you will get better images shooting with the Lunar than you can with the Sony."
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    sselblad.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Knowing Sony, won't they have the Nex 7n or whatever out before this uglyblad even hits the shelf? They're upgrading the nex line every year at the moment.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    An upgrade is already announced in a NEX-6. Better corner performances (vs 7), better AF (vs 7), WiFi, etc.

    Even a better hotshoe!

    All for less than the price of a 7!!!

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    NEX-7 has automatic CA corrections, Distortion corrections, Light fall off corrections.

    Sony already worked it out for me.

    Like many, I can not type what I feel about these morons.
    Ah yes . . . but 6 R&D people are going to rewrite it all and . . . . improve it

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Ah yes . . . but 6 R&D people are going to rewrite it all and . . . . improve it
    And, with the wonderful "Mr. Kitchen" running the team, it will finally be able to make coffee too!

    Cheers,

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    "This is the best technology in the best designed camera"
    "Everybody at the show has said how much they love it. You are the first person to speak negatively about it. Every. Other. Person. Loves. It. "
    "We have professional Hasselblad shooters - world famous photographers - lining up to put their name behind this when it launches."
    "Every Hasselblad owner we have spoken to says they cannot wait to buy this camera. "
    " We have 6 people in R&D working just on the Hasselblad firmware for this camera. "
    " It is a definite possibility that the firmware will automatically correct for chromatic aberrations and other lens defects. "
    So, they are not only morons for bringing out this monstrosity, they are liars too. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they can put out that kind of rubbish with a straight face.

    Greg

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Frankly, I am surprised at all the surprise over this. What conclusion could one arrive at when a team of investment bankers purchases a company that served a relatively minuscule market, other than they planned to utilize the brand to make dozens of lesser products for much larger markets?

    Seriously, I suspect you'll have Hasselblad wrist watches, alarm clocks, binoculars and telescopes in the 2012 Sharper Image holiday catalog. Maybe even Hasselblad stadium seats and ice-chests too. And probably Hasselblad golf towels and keychain lights.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I have an idea, Sony should just rebody the Lunar in 2013, call it the "7" and call it a day.

    Oh a new thought has come to mind, Sony and Olympus just struck a deal, so in Photokina 2014, Haaselblad will join MFT, rebody the new EM5 and charge whatever they will with inflation, and announce the arrival of Solar, BAM!
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Sony: 'Yes you may use out sensor tech'

    Hasselblad: 'How much will it cost us to do so'?

    Sony: 'Before we can save you we must first embarrass you'

    Hasselblad: 'Ok cool, where do you want me to drop my pants and bend over'?
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Sony: hey you guys should consider using our sensor technology

    Hass: but we make medium format cameras, wouldn't we end up looking like a sell out and embarrass ourselves in the process?

    Sony: Not if you rebadge our already successful, top of the range mirror less camera and spice it up!

    Hass: we have the perfect design intern for this
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Frankly, I am surprised at all the surprise over this. What conclusion could one arrive at when a team of investment bankers purchases a company that served a relatively minuscule market, other than they planned to utilize the brand to make dozens of lesser products for much larger markets?

    Seriously, I suspect you'll have Hasselblad wrist watches, alarm clocks, binoculars and telescopes in the 2012 Sharper Image holiday catalog. Maybe even Hasselblad stadium seats and ice-chests too. And probably Hasselblad golf towels and keychain lights.
    Well seeing as the new business manager worked for DeLonghi, I want a camera that pours coffee and makes toast at the same time....

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Frankly, I am surprised at all the surprise over this. What conclusion could one arrive at when a team of investment bankers purchases a company that served a relatively minuscule market, other than they planned to utilize the brand to make dozens of lesser products for much larger markets?

    Seriously, I suspect you'll have Hasselblad wrist watches, alarm clocks, binoculars and telescopes in the 2012 Sharper Image holiday catalog. Maybe even Hasselblad stadium seats and ice-chests too. And probably Hasselblad golf towels and keychain lights.
    Jack,

    You have a point, but you'd think they would try to milk the best part out of the company before flushing it down the toilet on the very first go-around.

    Greg
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Personally, I think Hasselblad was embarrassed by the idea from the beginning. Why else would they hide the camera under so much metal, wood, and leather to disguise it?

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    They called it the Lunar because it is just a phase...
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    That's a good one Shashin.

    After owning many Hassy cameras for decades including an H4D60, I think I'm going to go with the Leica M. I doubt Hassy can ever win back my business. Very sad. In my naivete I expected a lot more from Hasselblad. Actually, I was hoping for a rangefinder from Hassy that was between full frame 35 and MFD that would use existing Hassy lenses. I have never owned a Leica, but have admired them for a long time.

    Greg
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Frankly, I am surprised at all the surprise over this. What conclusion could one arrive at when a team of investment bankers purchases a company that served a relatively minuscule market, other than they planned to utilize the brand to make dozens of lesser products for much larger markets?

    Seriously, I suspect you'll have Hasselblad wrist watches, alarm clocks, binoculars and telescopes in the 2012 Sharper Image holiday catalog. Maybe even Hasselblad stadium seats and ice-chests too. And probably Hasselblad golf towels and keychain lights.
    "Hasselblad - the Chef Boyardee of Photography"

    This entire farce has rekindled my interest in the Leica M. Now I have to figure out how to get enough money to afford one...
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    "Hasselblad - the Chef Boyardee of Photography"

    This entire farce has rekindled my interest in the Leica M. Now I have to figure out how to get enough money to afford one...
    Maybe sell a few of your very own Lunar prototypes first!
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Take this from their defense;

    "For example, the camera's body is made of aluminum. It takes five hours to machine this down."
    The NEX 5 and NEX 7 bodies are made from Magnesium Alloy. Why would they require a new body to be machined from aluminum?

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    The NEX 5 and NEX 7 bodies are made from Magnesium Alloy. Why would they require a new body to be machined from aluminum?

    Lance
    Yes, the NEX-5/7 bodies are made of Magnesium alloy but they are moulded (perhaps takes less than 1s to do it). Something machined from a single block of aluminum (better heat conductor than that Magnesium alloy and unbreakable) would take a longer time.

    Can we expect a Lunar 5 as well?

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    There, I fixed it for you Hasselblad, and it only took me an hour. You're welcome. I never thought I'd say it, but a reworked X-Pro 1 is looking pretty damn good right about now.

    Attachment 63633

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Lunar and Nex7 side by side


    image from dpreview hasselblad stand report

    How do you defend this????
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy645 View Post
    There, I fixed it for you Hasselblad, and it only took me an hour. You're welcome. I never thought I'd say it, but a reworked X-Pro 1 is looking pretty damn good right about now.

    Attachment 63633

    This is about what I thought they would do- not the pano version but close to this. With a 2500-3000€ pricetag and some internal improvements (24,3 MPix FF sensor instead of the 16 and a dedicated Hasselblad Firmware, Raw support in Phocus and some nice accessories and maybe 2 or 3 dedicated highly opened Lenses like a 1,4/35mm, a 1,2/55 and a 1,4/90mm.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by rummenigge2 View Post
    Lunar and Nex7 side by side


    image from dpreview hasselblad stand report

    How do you defend this????
    The "Lunar" looks like it will be difficult to tilt the LCD. Not only ugly and a daylight robbery but down right dysfunctional!

  30. #80
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Ok, Ok Ok own up, who P**d in their design pool

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by rummenigge2 View Post
    Lunar and Nex7 side by side


    image from dpreview hasselblad stand report

    How do you defend this????
    I tell you in real it does look even worse. I have never seen so badly made prototypes. This is a really totally unprofessional launch for so much pathetics........
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    That is the point of a mirroles system is that it is small and compact and...

    oh, never mind.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    And then they missed out on the cup holder- wait - champaign glass holder of course !
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The perfect camera for street shooting in bad neighborhoods. No one will hit you over the head for this but they may slap you upside the head for buying it in the first place. Damn that really is ugly and I'm really trying to be nice here.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Actually, I would hope someone would steal it...

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    These remind me of the really ugly decor of cheap hotels I would stay at when traveling around SE Asia. All brass and glass and cheap/fake leather trying to masquerade as class. "Italian" design is right - but not the good kind, but the cheap fake greco-roman kind that rich oil barons go for.

    If I were Hasselblad I would just quietly sweep these under the rug at the end of Photokina and pretend it never happened.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    These remind me of the really ugly decor of cheap hotels I would stay at when traveling around SE Asia. All brass and glass and cheap/fake leather trying to masquerade as class. "Italian" design is right - but not the good kind, but the cheap fake greco-roman kind that rich oil barons go for.
    Exactly! They spend all the money on faux fixtures for the lobby and the beds are plywood with a bit of felt glued on top.

    Cheers,

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Yes, the NEX-5/7 bodies are made of Magnesium alloy but they are moulded (perhaps takes less than 1s to do it). Something machined from a single block of aluminum (better heat conductor than that Magnesium alloy and unbreakable) would take a longer time.

    Can we expect a Lunar 5 as well?
    Every single MacBook is machined from one piece of aluminium as well. Probably not as complex as a camera body, but the process is in principle the same. If Apple spent 3 hours to machine each of them, I guess their factory would occupy a major part of Mainland China

    With Apple's not so modest profit margins, this process would make the MacBooks insanely expensive, wouldn't it? But no, they start at around $1,000. But then of course, that doesn't include a wooden handle

  39. #89
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Seems to me that this is the stupidest series of choices Hasselblad could make. Any businessman worth his salt should know that with a brand like this the best way forward is to go backward. If you are going to "re-brand" anything, then re-brand the old horse that worked. Put out a Hasselblad Six Vintage body without a mirror but a simple live view screen where the viewfinder used to be, a sensor in the 10-15 MP range but with a square format, a removable back that can be upgraded to new backs over time, and then simply create a series of "cheap" adapters to fit the V series, Mamiya manual lenses, old Canon lenses, Nikon manuals and design two new 6 series zooms for the masses. Everyone else makes V adapters, except Hasselblad themselves. Heck, Hasselblad could even connect Sony who must own tonnes of old camera companies and sell copies of the old styles of lenses in semi-limited editions. The sense of limited editions would hook an Asian market, and the R&D is minimal...really.

    Not built for pros, but can use vintage pieces on a new body.

    Hook it into a special version of Instagram, and you have lift off.

    No need for hi-res pro quality, but alludes to the old gear. The old gear gets bought off the market, which is eco-friendly, and then Hasselblad becomes cool and edgy again versus a laughing stock. Hell, this just worked for the Fuji X-1 Pro.

    Who is John Galt?
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Every single MacBook is machined from one piece of aluminium as well. Probably not as complex as a camera body, but the process is in principle the same. If Apple spent 3 hours to machine each of them, I guess their factory would occupy a major part of Mainland China
    Exactly. Just few days ago I was replacing an HDD in Mac Mini - even smaller piece of solid aluminum machined down. Still slightly bigger than a camera but closer than MacBook. Very nice and precise work by Apple and for some strange reason they don't complain and don't make it's price around 5K Euro

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Like many of us here, I've owned just about every thing with a lens on it at one time or an other:

    Speed Graphic
    Custom Polaroid with a 4X5 grafmatic
    Bronica 645 Rangefinder
    2 fuji 645 AF/range finders
    a Ziess folder
    AFD-II + P30, and an AFD back
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    Oly Pen, OM-D
    Panasonic g1,g3
    a suite of canon PNS
    A Samsung PNS

    As you can see I've clearly missed the TLR and the 6X6 SLR.

    Right now, I see NO reason at all to give my hard earned hobby dollar to a Company that is so out of touch with me.

    Figure out a way to give me a 5X5 24 mpix waist level finder experience, with AF, slight crop for all your amazing MF glass, and do it for around 5K, I'm all in .....

    I've got the 5K to spend on a camera. A 20 something most likely does not.

    Dave

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    How anyone on the design team can live with themselves for creating this monstrosity is beyond me. It looks like it was designed by a mentally disadvantaged primary school student for a science fair project. It's just un-freaking-believable. I mean, for god sake. They've even killed all sense of ergonomics by repositioning the jogger dials to the front!

    Honestly, I was seriously looking at buying a Blad back to use in conjunction with a Linhof Techno, but this fiasco has put an end to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rummenigge2 View Post
    Lunar and Nex7 side by side


    image from dpreview hasselblad stand report

    How do you defend this????

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    How anyone on the design team can live with themselves for creating this monstrosity is beyond me. It looks like it was designed by a mentally disadvantaged primary school student for a science fair project. It's just un-freaking-believable. I mean, for god sake. They've even killed all sense of ergonomics by repositioning the jogger dials to the front!

    Honestly, I was seriously looking at buying a Blad back to use in conjunction with a Linhof Techno, but this fiasco has put an end to that.
    A HASSELBLAD BACK like the CFV-50 , for example , has got nothing to do with the LUNAR .
    I am not turning away from HASSELBLAD just because of their LUNAR desaster . But , yes , it is allowed to about it . Very loud .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  44. #94
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Of course, I guess the problem is that when you're paying so much money for a CFV-50 you want to feel confident the company will be around to service it for a reasonable period of time. This lunacy, excuse the pun, only serves to make me think the company is in dire trouble and about to tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    A HASSELBLAD BACK like the CFV-50 , for example , has got nothing to do with the LUNAR .
    I am not turning away from HASSELBLAD just because of their LUNAR desaster . But , yes , it is allowed to about it . Very loud .
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    A HASSELBLAD BACK like the CFV-50 , for example , has got nothing to do with the LUNAR .
    I am not turning away from HASSELBLAD just because of their LUNAR desaster . But , yes , it is allowed to about it . Very loud .
    Yes, they are separate products ... but come from the same company under the same Brand name.

    Here is a post I did on a dedicated Hasselblad forum that answers your stead-fast brand loyalty ... which I admire, and to some degree share, but feel is a bit misplaced and naive.

    "We may make light of this, but it may come back and bite all of us (i.e., Hasselblad users) ... and then we won't be laughing so much.

    I spent my whole advertising career managing Brands. A career that also allowed me to work with some of the best photographers and cinematographers in the world. Creative people who kindled a love of photography to point that I became one.

    I have lived through similar instances of greed and avarice that destroyed a brand reputation that took decades to establish. Hasselblad is on the cusp of doing something similar. The lack of humility in the face of universally withering criticism of what has already been nick-named the "Loony" ... the arrogant response from the top dogs, are chief indicators of a Brand about to be milked for short term profit ... minimal investment, inferior third party products branded with a great marquis, initial brief nods to core products which will morph into total abandonment of the core product development ... spiraling into total destruction. This isn't new, it is bad Brand history repeating itself.

    I'm not sure that even a united voice from their customer base can alter this path. The corporate world is rife with yes men and cowards who tremble under the thumb of financial tyrants.

    Am I over-reacting, am I making to much of it? We'll see ... but mark my words ... I've seen this more than once, and it has never ended well for anyone except the few doing the milking."


    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Like many, I can not type what I feel about these morons.
    Convenient, because I happen to be new on this particular forum and don't have any credibility or self-worth to lose, so hang tight.

    The Lunar is a stupid fucкing ugly garbage piece of shiт that doesn't fucкing do what it's supposed to. Unique features include being аss-backwards unusable, sucking out the souls of your subjects, and provoking mineral wars in third-world countries. Employing exclusive chinese engineering and European-esque design, a 90% outsourced and pre-designed framework was used for maximum profit while also driving up oil prices! Our intended zombie demographic will line up to waste their cash on this suсking fucкing goddаmn retarded hunk of garbage to allow our executives to drive a new Ferrari or two while everyone tears their fucкing eyeballs out. Be Hasselbling!

    Please don't take any of that personally, I usually play nice.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Puh puh, you got that load out of the way, Kolor-Pikker.

    I wrote a little about the Hasselblad booth in another thread (Leica/Ricoh)

    The Hasselblad booth was all over that new Lunar, which is even a bigger joke in reality. They come in countless versions. It is all about a sort of almost folkloristic craftsmenship read ( Louis Vuitton ) for the rich in which they put the latests electronics. It is a big mistake, I think. The whole booth was for a great deal in the light of their grand history, besides their great prof cameras.
    But also a non prof posh atmoshere with a black Ferrarie in the middle.
    Hope some sane guy takes over the handles soon.

    Michiel

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    Convenient, because I happen to be new on this particular forum and don't have any credibility or self-worth to lose, so hang tight.

    The Lunar is a stupid fucкing ugly garbage piece of shiт that doesn't fucкing do what it's supposed to. Unique features include being аss-backwards unusable, sucking out the souls of your subjects, and provoking mineral wars in third-world countries. Employing exclusive chinese engineering and European-esque design, a 90% outsourced and pre-designed framework was used for maximum profit while also driving up oil prices! Our intended zombie demographic will line up to waste their cash on this suсking fucкing goddаmn retarded hunk of garbage to allow our executives to drive a new Ferrari or two while everyone tears their fucкing eyeballs out. Be Hasselbling!

    Please don't take any of that personally, I usually play nice.
    MODERATOR'S WARNING
    Ok it is funny, but please tone down the language in the future.
    -bob

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Puh puh, you got that load out of the way, Kolor-Pikker.

    Michiel
    Just to make it clear, I'm not jumping on the HB hate wagon or trying to incite the wrath of the mods, but very put off by the 2012 failkina.

    MODERATOR'S WARNING
    I expected no less

  50. #100
    Member Richard Osbourne's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post

    Hilarious!
    'Habbelsad $$$' Love it!

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