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Thread: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

  1. #251
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Heck they had to hire people to do that? I'd have done it for free, wanton and possibly pointless but wow that would have been fun.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I had a look at some recent Hasselblad auctions at The Great Big Auction Site. Here are a few examples:

    H4D-60, Demo with lens: $15,100
    List price without lens: $30,995

    H4D-60, New without lens: $12,000
    List price without lens: $30,995

    H4D-40, Demo with lens: $8,988
    List price with lens: $18,995

    H4D-40, New without lens: $7,411
    List price without lens: $16,995

    H4D-31 Ferrari with lens: $8,180 (a real collector's item )
    List price with lens: $27,900

    Although I doubt that they sell many cameras at full price, with that kind of second hand value, Hasselblad obviously has a major problem. Used cameras are mostly sold to amateurs/enthusiasts, and with the Pentax costing $7,000, a used Hassy isn't worth much more. With the H-series being a closed system, the non-interchangeable back of the 645D isn't much of a handicap either. Then there's the D800. With 50% or more in lost value for almost new cameras, it's a question how long they will be able to keep their customers, not to speak about finding new ones.

    Seen from that angle, their company logo might be the only leg they have to stand on. That makes the Lunar understandable, but not edible. If you ask me, the closed system was the big mistake. Flexibility is the name of the game these days, and Leica seems to understand that.

    Edit: Interestingly, CFV backs hold their prices quite well, which kind of proves my point about closed systems: CFV-backs can be used on a number of cameras, so they are more sought after.
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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Jorgen

    It would be really interesting to know how much a used H4x will sell for.
    If your theory is right (and I think it is) the price should be significantly higher than a normal H4.

    And if this is the case it would take only a small decision by Hasselblad to significantly change the value of their stock - just do a H5x.

    Interesting !

    Stefan
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Anything is possible now.
    Think of this decadence slogan. Is there any serious management in this world who would let this embarassing, foolish nonsense pass and get public?

    Serious only, when they have a hidden agenda to knock Hasselblad down.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Karma View Post
    Anything is possible now.
    Think of this decadence slogan. Is there any serious management in this world who would let this embarassing, foolish nonsense pass and get public?

    Serious only, when they have a hidden agenda to knock Hasselblad down.
    Actually this video was not Hasselblad official, it was from a Hasselblad dealer Fotocare.com

    But I wonder how an official dealer can tell such stuff.
    As you said, if I were Hasselblad I´d be really pissed about that.

    BTW isn´t it interesting that in the whole internet there is nothing to be found about this launch event in New York ? No journalists there ?
    Google a bit and you´ll find this:
    https://www.facebook.com/VinePR
    the facebok page of the US PR company who did the event in NYC.
    and then this............ ????
    https://vimeo.com/67364907#

    It gets better and better.........

    OMG
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    At last, P. T. Barnum is proven right.

    - Leigh

    (For those unfamiliar: P. T. Barnum is credited with saying "There's a sucker born every minute.")

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The moon is the best place for this cameras, IMO.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    On the Lunar website, there are 3 lenses shown: 16mm, 18-55mm and 18-200. Isn't it a bit strange that Sony's best lenses aren't there? And no Zeiss? Maybe Zeiss didn't want their name associated with this (remember that Larry Hansen was with Zeiss for 26 years, the last 16 as their CEO in Asia).

    Or maybe they think that those who have burned all their monies on a Lunar can't afford a proper lens? Or maybe they realise that those who are stupid enough to buy a Lunar won't see the difference between a Zeiss lens and a Coke bottle anyway

    Oh... and there's an official FB page:

    https://www.facebook.com/hasselbladlunar.official

    It's so full of crap that Victor Hasselblad must rotate in his grave.

    And a "wonderful" article on Bornrich | Home of Luxury and Most Expensive things, "Home of Luxury":

    Hasselblad Lunar series is ultimate luxurious camera set with personalization options | Bornrich

    I think I start to understand why Zeiss isn't in on this...

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    At last, P. T. Barnum is proven right.

    - Leigh

    (For those unfamiliar: P. T. Barnum is credited with saying "There's a sucker born every minute.")
    I've also heard "... and two to take him!" appended to that statement.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Jorgen

    It would be really interesting to know how much a used H4x will sell for.
    If your theory is right (and I think it is) the price should be significantly higher than a normal H4.

    And if this is the case it would take only a small decision by Hasselblad to significantly change the value of their stock - just do a H5x.

    Interesting !

    Stefan
    I've never seen a used H4X for sale. There probably aren't that many around, and with the price of a new one (4-5,000 Euro plus the value of your old H1/2) it won't be an easy sell, even if it's the Hasselblad that makes the most sense right now (except specialty cameras like the 200ms).

    Here's another thing that puzzles me endlessly:

    - The H4D-40 Stainless Steel was launched almost 3 years ago.
    - It doesn't cost more than a standard H4D-40, at least not now
    - To me, it looks rather cool as opposed to the drab gray original
    - They made only 100 copies, or at least that's what they claim
    - Still, they haven't managed to sell all of them

    With that in mind, and the documented low second hand value of the Ferrari edition, spending millions on useless crap like the Lunar is the absolutely last thing I would do before flushing the whole company down the toilet at the bankruptcy court. But with the smell of this, that might be the right place for Hasselblad at the moment.

  11. #261
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    wrt to the car destruction, I do understand the frustration but I really don't understand the show boating approach to destroying your own property to make a point. I had an exotic sports car that spectacularly blew up it's headers and was off the road for 8+ weeks waiting for replacements. I threatened to attend my national club event with the car on a flat bed truck which seemed to get the manufacturer's rep & my dealer to 'suddenly' find parts for me and get it back on the road. However, I can't possibly imagine destroying your own car and effectively pissing away the money tied up in. That's just plain stupid in my book.

    Speaking of stupid, back to the Lunar marketing strategy ...

    Btw, I also tend to agree with Jono that Hasselblad probably will find a way to make some money on this deal but at the cost of their credibility amongst true photographers and long term clients. It seems very sad.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The moon is the best place for this cameras, IMO.
    The dark side of it would be best.

    - Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The more appropriate phrase is "Spinning in his grave" ... since I suspect this would have absolutely outraged Victor, and all of these hot shots would have been looking for new jobs.

    This is what happens when either the accountants or the marketing people get to much power and upset the balance. In this case it looks like the bean counters and the marketing clowns are in cahoots.

    Nothing could be worse than what they are doing ... the only thing worse would be if succeeds

    - Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    All this talk of crushing reminds me of the claymation skits for " Mr Bill" ...

    " Oh no Mr. Bill, not my new Lunar ... "

    - Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    There was a car destruction event here in Thailand around ten years ago, an owner who wasn't happy with his Honda CR-V and the fact that Honda wouldn't replace his problematic car. It was broadcasted live on TV, and at the time, Honda "owned" the local SUV market with a market share of over 90%. After the event, sales plummeted and they were left with somewhere between 10 and 20%.

    There were speculations that a competitor was "helping" with publicity around the project and Toyota as well as Isuzu launched competing models less than a year later. Toyota has been the market leader ever since with their highly successful Fortuner model.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Nothing could be worse than what they are doing ... the only thing worse would be if succeeds

    - Marc
    There's a guy around here who makes back covers for iPhones studded with Swarovski crystals and other junk. They sell at several hundred dollars a piece, and I believe he has the choice of several Mercedes Benz cars and a Harley. He should of course buy the Lunar out of principle, to support like minded souls
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    Member Agnius's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Lunar is way overdue for "Will it Blend?" segment.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 3rd June 2013 at 23:51.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    However, I can't possibly imagine destroying your own car and effectively pissing away the money tied up in.
    You and I do not have that much cash to show the frustration and disgust but some do and they are in China.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If you are not sure what to wear with your Lunar, here's a hint:


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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    That bag would clash with my hair color

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    HI Jorgen - is that what you're going to wear with yours?
    personally I think it's rather fetching

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Jorgen - is that what you're going to wear with yours?
    personally I think it's rather fetching
    Nah... I'm with Bob. Wouldn't match my hair colour either. Hey, wait... my hair is white, isn't it??

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't think they will be able to correct it. It's not their first mistake:
    When Hasselblad changed their H-series cameras into a proprietary system, closing other back suppliers out, it was an understandable, although heavily critisised decision. But they didn't only lock others out. They made a system so complicated that for one who looks for a second hand camera and back, finding out which camera is compatible with which backs and lenses is much more complicated than figuring out relations between other vendors that aren't really connected in any formal way.

    As one who is on my way into digital MF, Hasselblad was the brand I looked at first, but the confusion made me skeptical. Then came Lunar, and I just had to conclude that Hasselblad is a company out of touch with their potential customers and probably some existing ones as well. Not only would I never buy a Lunar, but I won't buy into any of their systems (unless I get it very cheap), simply because I fear similar customer-unfriendly decisions coming up in the future as well.

    Hey... their most attractive model to many (most?) potential buyers, the H4X, is only available if you are willing to trash an existing H1 or H2. It's like buying methadone: You have to prove that you're a heroin addict first

    Why go with a company who is diverting into silly luxury gadgets when there are dedicated suppliers like P1, Mamiya and DHW around? I think most of those participating on this forum will agree that expensive gear is much more than what's in the box when you open it. Even Leica during their worst Limited Edition years showed a firm dedication to their heritage and concentrated on cameras that they had actually made themselves and made well. Hasselblad haven't even been able to sell the very limited numbers (100 and 500 if I remember correctly) of their Ferrari and Stainless Steel editions, even if those don't cost much more than a normal Hassy. And now they are going to sell a 2 year old Sony for 6 or 7 times it's initial value?

    Had they known anything whatsoever about disaster management, they would have pulled the thing after Photokina, but I think they still see a profit potential. I wouldn't be surprised if they can sell enough of it to make it pay as an isolated case, but their reputation as a camera supplier to professionals and serious amateurs is probably damaged beyond repair. Then the remaining question is: Will the value of the brand name last long enough for the owners to get their investment back. The way this seems to be going, I hope not. They don't deserve it.

    Hopefully, there are some skilled enthusiasts left at their offices up north who can pick up the wreckage when the ship sinks, like DHW did with Rollei. It would indeed be sad to see one of the greatest camera brands go under this way.
    The whole industry has been undergoing forced changes for a few years now - as demand for its product shrinks. Niche manufacturers making truly excellent products may survive - because of their unique characteristics - be what they may. There probably isn't enough room for the number of competitors and brands out there now.

    I would bet on Phase One to win the war - I just hope the war doesn't take out all makers.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If you are not sure what to wear with your Lunar, here's a hint:

    And she probably has Instagram on her iPhone and is reviewing those pictures now.

    But if you think about it, the Lunar is a great deal. I think this is the first Hasselblad cheaper than a Leica M.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    There are many "cheaper" Leica Ms. The Leica Nano M (rebadged Panasonic), the Micro M, .... Leica Camera AG - Home

    No need to despair, there is a special edition coming soon: Leica to unveil a new special edition camera on June 20th | Leica News & Rumors

    I hope Swiss railway will not dispute the designs.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Poster at the dpr forum today about the Lunar:

    "I think Hasselblad are to be commended. This is the first time that I can recall the DPR comments section showing anything like a consensus."

    That kind of says it all

    One more:

    "I really like this, but I'm going to wait until the end of the year before buying...their website says they will start producing custom built versions. I'm going to ask them to build me a bespoke version without the wooden grip but with Sony written on it. That way it will fool theives into thinking it isn't worth stealing."
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 10th June 2013 at 17:04.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Just to remember - Italian design is actually something very valuable - "IF" somebody uses it for the right stuff in the right context - like this one:

    http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/fer...rrari-wide.jpg

    or that one

    http://www.carautoportal.com/car-ima...ne-picture.jpg

    or this
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e4Lx8EPHe6...K+MAY+2013.jpg

    or here
    http://www.motorrad-news.com/wp-cont...800-2013-2.jpg

    the term Italian design - used with this Lunar is an offense for all italian designers who are proud on their work and the heritage of this nation of bella figura..
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Here's the Lunar equivalent:

    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    At least the car might be worth $7k.

  31. #281
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Here's a Hasselblad Lunar that I wouldn't mind owning, the 20 Years in Space Anniversary version of the 500 EL/M:



    There's even one for sale right now:

    Hasselblad Grey Elm Lunar 20 Years in Space Anniversary Set 1474 Mint | eBay
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Just to remember - Italian design is actually something very valuable - "IF" somebody uses it for the right stuff in the right context - like this one:

    http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/fer...rrari-wide.jpg

    or that one

    http://www.carautoportal.com/car-ima...ne-picture.jpg

    or this
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e4Lx8EPHe6...K+MAY+2013.jpg

    or here
    http://www.motorrad-news.com/wp-cont...800-2013-2.jpg

    the term Italian design - used with this Lunar is an offense for all italian designers who are proud on their work and the heritage of this nation of bella figura..
    Based on those samples, maybe they should have made it Red ... and stuck a Ferrari logo on it?

    Oh, wait, they already did that ... didn't work then either.

    Hasselblad meets Ferrari

    - Marc

  33. #283
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Based on those samples, maybe they should have made it Red ... and stuck a Ferrari logo on it?

    Oh, wait, they already did that ... didn't work then either.

    Hasselblad meets Ferrari

    - Marc
    And that was a great investment Here's one that is for sale:

    Hasselblad H4D 40 Ferrari Edition 29 499 12134051568 | eBay

    And here's one who actually succeeded selling it, for more than a Lunar, but not by much:

    Ferrari Hasselblad H4D Ferrari Edition 86 of 499 | eBay

    Who wants a red Fuji camera with Ferrari and Hasselblad logos anyway??

  34. #284
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    One retailer that will sell the Lunar is Colette in Paris. Part of their description reads: "Nouvelle interprétation du légendaire 500C de 1957, ...". Yeah, right. But it gets better. Their English description reads: "A reworking of the legendary 500C from 1957, it the best device in the world to capture beautiful moon shots, and was chosen by Nasa for various space programs."

    This must be one of their customers, right? (Grab from their website)



    Ummm... actually, it's a Jeremy Scott creation. But it is the kind of stuff they sell, alongside this high-tech camera that has almost been to the moon.
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    One retailer that will sell the Lunar is Colette in Paris. Part of their description reads: "Nouvelle interprétation du légendaire 500C de 1957, ...". Yeah, right. But it gets better. Their English description reads: "A reworking of the legendary 500C from 1957, it the best device in the world to capture beautiful moon shots, and was chosen by Nasa for various space programs."

    This must be one of their customers, right? (Grab from their website)



    Ummm... actually, it's a Jeremy Scott creation. But it is the kind of stuff they sell, alongside this high-tech camera that has almost been to the moon.
    Just thinking if the Leica Mini M gets sold somewhere (Boutique shops).......


  36. #286
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Hi Vivek

    after following your Colette, Paris hint I found their sales price for the Lunar which is 6500 € !!!! Wow -that´s even more than they announced.

    But one positive fact to mention : at least they dropped the redgold/winered leather version.......

    Thanks God. That was probably too distressing, even for this "design team".

    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Hi Stefan, We have to thank Jorgen for that link.

    FWIW, the red gold is expensive!

    (So is the Ferrari's original red paint. Many may not know the cost of these. Really shockingly expensive.)

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If you are not sure what to wear with your Lunar, here's a hint:

    Maybe its just me, but I feel she can make anything work!
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Have anybody noticed that none of the retailers selling the kit have the other two lenses. What are they thinking? They can't expect users to buy Sony lenses, can they? That will degrade image quality for sure! For all I know, off-brand lenses haven't even been tested on the moon

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    Hasselbling Lunar: is it unique ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    Have anybody noticed that none of the retailers selling the kit have the other two lenses. (...)

    does that make the Lunar unique .-)

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    And the hits just keep coming. Hasselblad announces the Hasselblad Stellar. I will not sell my Sony RX-100 to buy one of these.

    It's getting so bad I'm almost embarrassed to take my 501CM out in public.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    $7000!!!

    *puts money back in wallet*

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    THE HASSELBLAD STELLAR - Treats! Magazine

    "Priced at 1480 Euros (around $1,950), it’s one of the most expensive point-and-shoot camera in the world. And one of the most beautiful."

    Luxury market it is.
    Keeping film photography and printing alive!

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    "The camera is equipped with DSLR performance made easy...". Must be the wooden handle. I want a wooden handle on all my cameras from now on if that increases the performance

    If that price is right, they have reduced it from what was first indicated. Now it's just 3 times as expensive as the outgoing Sony model

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    "Our latest camera products, including our flagship H5D medium format series and our new and pioneering Lunar and Stellar consumer models... "

    - Larry Hansen, CEO

    What gets to me is how a man who for decades has worked at top level positions for some of the world's most famous, classic, high-end camera brands can utter such nonsense

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    THE HASSELBLAD STELLAR - Treats! Magazine

    "Priced at 1480 Euros (around $1,950), it’s one of the most expensive point-and-shoot camera in the world. And one of the most beautiful."

    Luxury market it is.
    Beautiful? Um...
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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    They have a customer! A professional! I'm not sure if he paid or got paid though


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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If they follow their current MO, we can shortly expect something like this:

    Hasselblad Solar?
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    David Beckham went on a motorbike trip stopping occasionally to snap a few shots with his Lunar. By coincidence, there was another photographer around to

    He's taking the PIC: David Beckham poses on his motorbike as he goes sight-seeing in Los Angeles | Mail Online

    Nope, I don't think he paid for that camera. Rather the opposite actually. The highest paid footballer on earth (almost $30 million in sponsor deals in 2012 alone) doesn't give this kind of photo ops away for free.

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    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Every inch of that scene is ridiculous, which suggests to me that he did indeed buy it, or at least chose it. I don't think Hasselblad has the money to pay whatever David Beckham's advertising fees might be, and what they might offer is probably a blip on the radar compared to what he generally notices. If he was advertising for them, I am sure we would have heard more about it from them. Still, he seems to fit the demographic perfectly -- huge amounts of money and an emphasis on flamboyance over substance.
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