Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 305

Thread: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like

    Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Hasselblad, after receiving humongus criticism about their new Lunar camera, has gone defensive ; article on BJP :

    Hasselblad: 'We're not robbing people off with Lunar camera' - British Journal of Photography

    For me, I'm perplexed. Both by the announcement of the camera and by the "defensive" interview.

    Hasselblad for me, which I've been a photographer for over 18 years, has meant two things :

    - superb lens which translate to superb image quality
    - great craftmanship and materials which translates to long long life

    Lunar has none of both. Leins are generic like in Sony cameras and the craftmanship... ? Sure the sketches look fine ( in terms of finishing ) but the mock ups at Photokina looks bits of hood and carbon fiber that have the finishing finesse of... erm... edges are not polished, things do not look properly assembled, fit and finish are dreadfull.

    If you want to launch a 5k camera and emphasize on the quality of the materials and show off a mockup that looks like molded clay.. oh boy..

    I pick up a XPAN and I can almost feel its quality build. Even on a 20 year 500C old camera I can still see the fit and finishing are impeccable.

    I really dont see that happening with a Nex7

    Huge huge dissapointment for me. Kudos Leica for the M - they listened to their users and delivered what pretty much everyone wanted.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    212
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Well, this is pretty much exactly the response I would expect from a management who conceived this monstrosity in the first place, complete denial. A sane management with a firm connection to it's customers would go "oh sh*t! back to the drawing board." right now. The fact that they even had to do an interview like this should be proof enough. Instead they went with "It's a new product, people don't understand, give it time and they'll love it". Seems like blindfolds are securely attached and it's full steam ahead. Kodak anyone?

    Last edited by Mammy645; 19th September 2012 at 10:13.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    There are a number of problems.

    The mockups look like sh*t. They really do. They also convey the message that this camera is about surface only. It could be true that they really have engineered a completely new user interface and electronics and the only thing they have from Sony is the sensor and the mount. But that is not what you instinctively feel when you see this launch.

    I see a poorly made attempt at making a Nex 7 into a luxury point-and-shoot for rich non-photographers. Is that what Hasselblad is about now? Fail!

    It could be repaired though. If it really turns out to be a unique Hasselblad product, and this luxury gimmicky thing is played down, and there is a standard black model released at a more reasonble price. But these are the same guys that thought a Ferrari edition was a good idea for the Hasselblad brand, so I don't have much hope.

    Another problem I think is that this is an APS-C camera, it is not providing the kind of look (concerning depth of field) people deeply interested in photography will want. I don't think the APS-C format is well-suited for a highly expensive camera at all.

    If I'm going to buy such an expensive camera, I could just add a little bit more and get a full-frame Leica M.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts and Vermont
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    There are a number of problems.

    The mockups look like sh*t. They really do. They also convey the message that this camera is about surface only. It could be true that they really have engineered a completely new user interface and electronics and the only thing they have from Sony is the sensor and the mount. But that is not what you instinctively feel when you see this launch.

    I see a poorly made attempt at making a Nex 7 into a luxury point-and-shoot for rich non-photographers. Is that what Hasselblad is about now? Fail!

    It could be repaired though. If it really turns out to be a unique Hasselblad product, and this luxury gimmicky thing is played down, and there is a standard black model released at a more reasonble price. But these are the same guys that thought a Ferrari edition was a good idea for the Hasselblad brand, so I don't have much hope.

    Another problem I think is that this is an APS-C camera, it is not providing the kind of look (concerning depth of field) people deeply interested in photography will want. I don't think the APS-C format is well-suited for a highly expensive camera at all.
    I agree with you about the mockups, but I suspect you have a never used a NEX-7. I have one, and it is quite a nice camera. It lacks two things in my experience. One is a line of first class lenses. That is now being addressed by Zeiss, among others. The other is a simple, refined user interface and set of operational controls. To generalize, the Japanese just don't seem to know how to design a camera that functions like a Leica or a Hasselblad. Perhaps the new Hasselblad will at least have a set of operational controls and a user interface more like a European designed camera rather than a video game. I would buy that camera and pay a premium for it. The issue is how much of a premium would one pay. I think Hasselblad has screwed up big time here in that all people see right now are some really poor, over the top mockups that are styled more like ugly jewelry and are priced at a ridiculous multiple of a Sony NEX-7. Hasselblad should have started with a more modestly designed version and emphasized the Hasselblad influenced operational controls and user interface. A well executed marriage of the best Japanese technology and European camera design would be a great thing.

  5. #5
    Wim van Velzen
    Guest

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    With more usual colours and materials, and with a more normal price, I would quite like it. Now it seems just bad.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy645 View Post
    Well, this is pretty much exactly the response I would expect from a management who conceived this monstrosity in the first place, complete denial. A sane management with a firm connection to it's customers would go "oh sh*t! back to the drawing board." right now. The fact that they even had to do an interview like this should be proof enough. Instead they went with "It's a new product, people don't understand, give it time and they'll love it". Seems like blindfolds are securely attached and it's full steam ahead. Kodak anyone?


    "Kodak anyone?"

    That is exactly how I see this ending, slowly and painfully. Makes me want to take a baseball bat to my V kit.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Philly area, PA, US
    Posts
    354
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The market will decide if it will be a success or a flop.

    Generally, companies have more information regarding market research than individual photographers. They might have some information that you or I don't and it makes sense financially.

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    They should of just let it pass and not even responded to the criticism. Business 101

    Believe me we would all forget about this in about 72 hours anyway.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California
    Posts
    1,811
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If they only hadn't mentioned a price point I think the whole thing would be dismissed as insignificant instead of hugely negative for Hasselblad's image.

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    The market will decide if it will be a success or a flop.

    Generally, companies have more information regarding market research than individual photographers. They might have some information that you or I don't and it makes sense financially.
    I disagree with your take on this.

    The posters here (none support the "Lunar"): http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium...tml#post452682

    are the potential "market".

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts and Vermont
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    They should of just let it pass and not even responded to the criticism. Business 101

    Believe me we would all forget about this in about 72 hours anyway.
    24 hours if you are over 60!

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    24 hours if you are over 60!

    So I get maybe 42 for being 55. LOL

    Oh wait, what where we talking about.


    Seriously they are stepping on there on **** pile when you go on the defensive. Just let it die out, and frankly none of us are going to buy it anyway. So we really dont count, where all upset more about diluting the name and I think thats really is the bottom line for us and the thought we may never see another nickel go into MF R&D. I know almost every Hassy owner is thinking about there future in the H product line.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hong Kong / Asia
    Posts
    524
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    That kind of attempt at marketing defense is simply a load of complete B.S. and a complete ignorance and incompetence of what is market and customers. I have not read any threads like the Lunar during all years I been on internet.

    Take this from their defense;

    "For example, the camera's body is made of aluminum. It takes five hours to machine this down."

    That is cheap, they do not even of duralumin (aircraft grade aluminum). Five hours to machine??? Using hand tools??? A CNC can do this very quick in minutes and to 0.01mm precision.

    Nah, nonsense product. Let us see the responsible ones kicked.

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    A CNC can do this very quick in minutes and to 0.01mm precision.
    And a lot of those machines are now made in China.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Believe me we would all forget about this in about 72 hours anyway.
    I hadn't really forgot about the ferrari edition....

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Philly area, PA, US
    Posts
    354
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I disagree with your take on this.

    The posters here (none support the "Lunar"): http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium...tml#post452682

    are the potential "market".

    If you are saying that the user base is just a handful of users on this forum, the companies are in BIG trouble.

    That's the thing: it doesn't look like the people you mention are their target market. All of them wanted a MF "toy".

  17. #17
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The thing that gets me is they state they are looking for a younger audience. A well built tool is not a reflection of fashion but form. A great camera works great regardless of form. No matter your age, you recognize good design. They are talking about fashion and yet they take something made for my parents generation--how is that going to get a younger crowd. They should of hired Sir Ive like Leica. I work with that younger customer and the Lunar is not going to do it for them.

    But one thing is for sure, there are a lot of nervous board members right now.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    "In the end, Hasselblad, with this new initiative, is hoping to attract a larger, younger audience to its range of cameras, says Stig-Nielsen. "I've been longing to talk to a younger audience of potential professionals, and I really believe the Sony name is familiar to this audience. Sony is in the gaming industry, the music industry – things that relate to a young generation. I think the Sony brand and the Lunar product is going to help spread the message about what Hasselblad is."

    Being 24 years old I consider myself "young generation" so I cannot help but regard this interview (at least parts of it) as a huge personal insult! I think the most disgusting part is the admittance of the fact that these cameras are not designed with photographers in mind. Period.
    Do they really believe what they claim that young professionals will be attracted to the brand because of their experiance with a Lunar?

    If I understand this correctly this is what HB thinks will happen: A young person who is interested in photography has never heard of the Hasselblad brand. He/she then buys a HB Lunar camera because of the strong resemblence to a Sony NEX 7. A camera and brand name that is familiar to a young person because of the gaming and music industry (you got to be kidding me...). He/she then discovers that Hasselblad has an array of top-grade camera euipment and goes for an H series camera. Seriously, what the **** is that?

    Now this is even more likely to happen: Someone who has never heard of Hasselblad before (if this is even possible...) buys a Lunar and discovers that there is no difference between a Hasselblad camera and a Sony camera. Will he/she upgrade?

    Which is the more present name in the still canera industry Hasselblad or Sony? Where I live you can ask anybody on the street about camera brands and you're very likely to get Hasselblad as an answer way before somebody will mention Sony.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I agree with Guy - it was better just to let it die ( the critics ) rather than being all defensive about it.

    Again, I'm amazed how a company that want to produce a custom-tailor-made-quality-finish-camera like the Lunar presents such lousy and terrible mockups. Its just appalling the quality of those. I've looked at the pictures over and over and they just look hideous in terms of fit and finish. My plumber could do a better job with Carbon Fiber and Leather.

    I know some that sometimes a new direction always raise the fundamentalist and the loyal camera base to go bananas. Leica was on the line with the launch of the M8 : was a camera that only a father could love - man it was terrible. I'm a Leica film user and M8 early adopter ( had one second day it was on the market ) and oh boy - APS-C, mangenta issues, green lines woes, clunky shutter noise, lockups, terrible LCD, battery erratic, no decent RAW converter to exploit the full potential of the files.

    But bit by bit they ironed it out : coded lens profiles, green lines gone, IR silly filters, better firmware, Adobe collaboration... M8.2 polished things further and today a M9 its a full alternative respecting Leica heritage to a Leica M film camera.

    But I fear there isnt much polishing to do with the Lunar - unless you go back to the drawing board. Make it a 24mp full frame camera that accept H lens and you got a whole different product.

    Maybe we are missing something here, like some of you are saying : perhaps this was Hasselblad deal to have Sony sensors on the H6D. But man, what a price to pay.

    It saddens me really. They could have done a XPAN digital and go head to head with Leica M. I've lurked this site for ages, drooling over Guy, Jacks, Fotografz and such photographer fantastic images with MFD and I always lusted for a H camera and its fantastic lenses but was always wary of the H camera size and weight ( used to Leica M form factor and weight ). When I heard about a smaller Hassy I was jumping and crossing fingers.

    Man I was dissapointed when I saw the Lunar press release. And the mockup images just made me real sick.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I love vulgar yacht, planes and coach designs, because they really do understand what luxury living is. However, Hasselblad literally defies all aspects of design philosophies by making a over the top exuberant camera which even defies what photographers want from a camera in the first place. It is first huge, completely opposite to what R&D Sony have brought to the table. It actually reminds of student industrial design projects rather than mature Italian sport cars designs and user ergonomics.

    Next if the materials are supposedly aimed at a younger audience, I'm sorry not in this economy and this younger generation would think the Sony NEX is more attractive by far and sleeker too. I'm in my mid-thirties both into classical and modern design, yet this Lunar design fits no where. If they had market researched this, I'm sorry they really don't know the process or how to filter their information. Majority of polls are taken as face value voices, if you got someone off the street who isn't even into photography and may have never even held a camera before will give you his/her voice if asked, yes such people exist. Next, most people's opinions change if they really had to put money forward into an idea, it's easy to say something, like even here on forums and not back it up.

    Now with Hasselblad going defensive really says a lot about the company and the people there and maybe where they are going businesswise and this is not a good sign.

    Ultimately two things stand out for me: they are a medium format company, if they consider this a compact camera for them, fine, but at least go full frame. Leica did this for the same money with Leica M-E announcement. Next address the dumb design, I would!
    ___________________
    Po-Ming Chu
    POPHOTO

  21. #21
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    all they had to do to make a winner was to cut off that cruddy handgrip end, move the LCD to the rear, move the electronics a bit into the space created, make it black and voila! a mini V

    why wide, not deep, that was always the Blad persona?

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Costa Rica, central america
    Posts
    319
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So I get maybe 42 for being 55. LOL

    Oh wait, what where we talking about.


    Seriously they are stepping on there on **** pile when you go on the defensive. Just let it die out, and frankly none of us are going to buy it anyway. So we really dont count, where all upset more about diluting the name and I think thats really is the bottom line for us and the thought we may never see another nickel go into MF R&D. I know almost every Hassy owner is thinking about there future in the H product line.
    Could not agree more. People like me ( in the technology business) where not expecting something breath taking at Photokina. They simple had no time
    to develop a trully new system.

    The issue is that they did not added the now old 80 mega pixel sensor, nor they changes the price structure. They continue to miss manage communication, continue to give the impression that they are chasing quick money, with no medium or long term strategy.

    They also seem not to notice the D800, nor the D600 or the canon and sony equivalent bodies.

    I see not synergy between the lunar and the H5D. Nikon can sale a arguably sub par mirrorless camera because of the link between the Nikon 1 and the SLR line. People that buy the Nikon 1 are more likely to but a nikon DSLR for those special occasions, and people that have a DSLR from Nikon will less tempted to drop it for a mirrorless camera. It just invites to have both.

    This camera is not going to open a new big market for Hasselblad. A market that could finance the creation of the chipsets for future medium format cameras (sharing chipsets a la Pentax or Nikon DSLR / N1).

    At that price is unlikely the line will become a mass market item.

    Maybe they have a solid plan and it just the already known communication problem, but at this moment no clarity.

    Best regards,

    James
    *****
    It could be that Phase One still have exclusive writes to the 80 mega pixels sensor. But that will not justify the price of the H5D-40, nor in light of the Pentax P645

  23. #23
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,800
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I loved my Hasselblad gear, especially the Fuji (sorry, XPan). This is just embarrassing.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post

    Really, I think I ruptured my sides laughing so hard, excellent!
    ___________________
    Po-Ming Chu
    POPHOTO

  26. #26
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    They should have released an announcement saying it was a Photokina prank. Then we would all have said "Brilliant!"
    http://www.graham-mitchell.com Graham Mitchell
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Excellent, I was laughing out loud!

  28. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    212
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and actually says Nex 7 in the menu system.... lol

    Hasselblad Lunar = Sony NEX-7 ? - YouTube
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  29. #29
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,331
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy645 View Post
    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and actually says Nex 7 in the menu system.... lol

    Hasselblad Lunar = Sony NEX-7 ? - YouTube
    Oooops... I haven't seen such a screw up ever. What on earth are they smoking in Gothenburg?

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Then there is the HABBLESAD

    Habblesad

    Still, it'll probably sell like hot cakes in China.

    ho hum.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #31
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy645 View Post
    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and actually says Nex 7 in the menu system.... lol

    Hasselblad Lunar = Sony NEX-7 ? - YouTube
    Well, if you have a HB rep chewing gum, when demonstrating their new camera - I think it says all there needs to be said!!!

    What a JOKE!
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  32. #32
    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Someone fire the rep chewing gum.

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Consider this:

    On Victor Hasselblad:

    His famed career started in 1940, when a German military aeroplane was shot down over Swedish terrotory. The army found an aerial camera inside the plane, and the Royal Swedish Air Force asked Victor Hasselblad if he could ”make a camera like this?” He replied: ”No, I can make one better.”

    Here is my editorial reply to both the Lunar Camera and the defense of it:

    Click Pic to enlarge.

    -Marc
    Likes 8 Member(s) liked this post

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Still, it'll probably sell like hot cakes in China.

    ho hum.
    That is probably what the HB execs think.

  35. #35
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    KEMPTEN / GERMANY
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    116

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Consider this:

    On Victor Hasselblad:

    His famed career started in 1940, when a German military aeroplane was shot down over Swedish terrotory. The army found an aerial camera inside the plane, and the Royal Swedish Air Force asked Victor Hasselblad if he could ”make a camera like this?” He replied: ”No, I can make one better.”

    Here is my editorial reply to both the Lunar Camera and the defense of it:

    Click Pic to enlarge.

    -Marc
    I can only agree to this .
    I believe VICTOR would roll over in his grave .

    "In the end, Hasselblad, with this new initiative, is hoping to attract a larger, younger audience to its range of cameras, says Peter Stig-Nielsen, Hasselblad's director of professional camera products. "I've been longing to talk to a younger audience of potential professionals, and I really believe the Sony name is familiar to this audience. Sony is in the gaming industry, the music industry – things that relate to a young generation. I think the Sony brand and the Lunar product is going to help spread the message about what Hasselblad is."

    Young people want fun and shoot with smart phones and P&S cameras .
    They don't have much money anyway , but if , they would surely not spend it for LUNAR .
    Young photographers don't have much money either and would rather buy a second hand MFD or lens instead of LUNAR .

    Give us tools , NOT toys .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Consider this:

    On Victor Hasselblad:

    His famed career started in 1940, when a German military aeroplane was shot down over Swedish terrotory. The army found an aerial camera inside the plane, and the Royal Swedish Air Force asked Victor Hasselblad if he could ”make a camera like this?” He replied: ”No, I can make one better.”

    Here is my editorial reply to both the Lunar Camera and the defense of it:

    Click Pic to enlarge.

    -Marc
    so what you are saying is we should find a zombie version of Victor, shoot down an alien spaceship over Swedish territory, hopefully they are having some cool alien MF camera onboard and we just ask zombie victor to make one and he says, I will make a better one, and voila the H6D is born!

    Looking on the bright side though that must have sounded more realistic than whatever was brainstormed for the lunar camera I guess..

  37. #37
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That is probably what the HB execs think.
    I think they are dead wrong on this.

    The Chinese may have $, but they are not stupid.

    Hey, maybe some will even develop a Lunatic look-a-like set, and sell it to Nex users at $30.- a shot.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  38. #38
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by IsakBergwall View Post
    so what you are saying is we should find a zombie version of Victor, shoot down an alien spaceship over Swedish territory, hopefully they are having some cool alien MF camera onboard and we just ask zombie victor to make one and he says, I will make a better one, and voila the H6D is born!

    Looking on the bright side though that must have sounded more realistic than whatever was brainstormed for the lunar camera I guess..
    Consider this without being so literal:

    The key legacy phrase is "I can make a better one" ... as in, not a worse one.

    What if, just what if ...

    Hasselblad had pulled back the curtain and there sat a 35mm styled camera with Sony engineered components, with a smaller then MFD, but larger than 35mm, sensor, using a focal plane shutter so one could use the AF HC lenses or the Zeiss MF lenses with focus confirmation ... and perhaps an adapter to use current Zeiss/Sony A mount lenses by selecting the 35mm crop in the menu? Priced at $7,900.

    This would have provided Pros with a back-up to their H while expanding use of the H lenses beyond 1/800th shutter, given the enthusiasts an entry level camera with familiar handling characteristics, provide Sony users an expansion upwards and the ability to use some of their existing optics on a camera somewhat familiar to their previous Alpha.

    Personally, I would have pre-ordered such a camera when I put in my H5 order.

    Now, I'm inclined to skip the H5 for fear of the company's future, slap my H4D/60 back on my studio view-camera and upgrade a few view lenses, and stick to the S system for mobile work ... or if not a S then a D800.

    Haven't made my mind up yet, but this mis-step and the stubborn defense of it in the face of withering criticism is quite disconcerting.

    -Marc
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  39. #39
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    I can only agree to this .
    I believe VICTOR would roll over in his grave .

    "In the end, Hasselblad, with this new initiative, is hoping to attract a larger, younger audience to its range of cameras, says Peter Stig-Nielsen, Hasselblad's director of professional camera products. "I've been longing to talk to a younger audience of potential professionals, and I really believe the Sony name is familiar to this audience. Sony is in the gaming industry, the music industry – things that relate to a young generation. I think the Sony brand and the Lunar product is going to help spread the message about what Hasselblad is."

    Young people want fun and shoot with smart phones and P&S cameras .
    They don't have much money anyway , but if , they would surely not spend it for LUNAR .
    Young photographers don't have much money either and would rather buy a second hand MFD or lens instead of LUNAR .

    Give us tools , NOT toys .
    You make a key observation here. Hasselblad is saying they want to recapture their non-pro user base ... but when was that ever with a Hasselblad of some incredibly diminished image making ability, coated with trashy bling at a price that would make anyone think twice ?

    Fact is, those of modest means aspiring to Hasselblad did so buy buying older Vs.

    If Hasselblad wanted to re-capture the up-coming student, entry level pro, or advanced enthusiasts ... they could have used the all the trade-ins as the established pros moved on to the latest H.

    Right now no one knows where those cameras go. Imagine a re-furbed H3D/31 with standard lens for less than the new Lunar ... how many folks even on this forum have sincerely wanted a MFD camera but just couldn't afford one?

    Their whole premiss is flawed and senseless ... if they were making this thing for the taste challenged newly rich, then don't say it's for the aspiring photograper pro or not ... which is an insult.

    -Marc

  40. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reykjavik, Iceland
    Posts
    2,310
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    I am also baffled by the "younger generation" comments. I am 34, and while that is a stretch for the younger generation, a lot of my friends and photographers I know are in their 20s. Two of my best friends are artists and photographers in their early twenties. One uses a Hasselblad 500C and 80/2.8CT*. That is all he uses, other than occasionally the iPhone 4 when he needs a digital shot. But for all his art, it is the Hasselblad. He loves it. I know that he would find the new Lunar repulsive, and if the management wants to talk to a young photographer shooting Hasselblad, with a love for the brand, I can put them in touch. The other is a student at the Academy of the Arts in Berlin, also 24. She has a Rolleiflex 3.5E and a compact Canon DSLR that she does not really use because it is too big. A NEX camera might work for her, but the gaudy Lunar is way out of her style realm. Also, if you want to target young people, why are you pricing the camera for people who make 100,000 euro plus a year? Both of the friends I mention have to think extremely hard about money...to the extent that they will skip going to events that cost 10 euros because it is too much for them. They have precious little disposable income, and so when they save up for a new computer, camera or something like that, they research a lot before they make a move. Value is a key component for the youth market, probably even more so than fancy new technology. Technology is not something new and exciting for this generation, it's just a given. It can even be a negative. A good 75% of all the young photographers I know shoot film, some exclusively. They also listen to vinyl records (that uptake is even higher...I don't think I know anyone under 30 who is really into music who does not either have a record player, or at least find one much cooler and desirable than MP3...which they still all use!)

    If you are trying to target the already wealthy, believe me, they are not going to be fooled by taking an older Sony camera and dressing it up in gold and snakeskin. The true luxury brands start out by giving you something extremely well made and unique, and then have a brand markup. If you grew up with money, you are likely used to high quality objects, but you are also used to people trying to part you with your money, and you get good at spotting who is full of ****, as it were. And boy, is this camera full of ****. This is the biggest turkey since the Aston Martin Cygnet, and their excuse was that they need to create a fuel efficient car to comply with regulations, what's Hasselblad's excuse?
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  41. #41
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,331
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Then there is the HABBLESAD

    Habblesad

    Still, it'll probably sell like hot cakes in China.

    ho hum.
    20 years ago, maybe. The young, rich Chinese of today are much better informed about technology and international trends. Leica sells well in Asia because it's an established luxury product with known qualities and value for money compared to more fashionable gadgets that lose their value fast.

    But there are exceptions, and Asia including the Middle East are probably the only markets where the Lunar will have a chance at all.

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Basel, Switzerland
    Posts
    265
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy645 View Post
    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and actually says Nex 7 in the menu system.... lol

    Hasselblad Lunar = Sony NEX-7 ? - YouTube
    And the best thing in this video is the face of the chewing gum guy, taking the cam and has absolutely NO IDEA how to handle the situation.

    I'm proud to shoot with a H4D-40 Stainless Steel. I can not say how far that Lunar is from my excellent and beloved Hassi.

    S.
    www.stanROX.com

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    I think they are dead wrong on this.

    The Chinese may have $, but they are not stupid.
    No, of course the Chinese are not stupid, but this is (surely) a matter of taste, and they have very different taste and seem to like what we would call 'bling' (as do a number of other cultures).

    Seems to me that it will sit nicely on the seat of your long wheelbase BMW 7 series with the wooden dash and blonde leather seats.

    Personally, I think the camera is disgusting - but then it's not aimed at me.

    I'm sure there will be nobody around here singing it's praises, either now or later, but I'm not so certain that it won't sell!

    Good Luck To 'em I say - if Hassleblad make a profit on it there will be more for R&D for new cameras, and that must be a good thing.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  44. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reykjavik, Iceland
    Posts
    2,310
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Also, in terms of leveraging your "Lunar legacy", take a tip from Omega. They may have gone off the deep end with some of their lunar commemoratives, but the watch that most people care the most about is the actual watch that was on the moon -- the Speedmaster Professional. Still produced, and not significantly changed from the original watch that was on the moon. The reason it was on the moon was that it was the best, most durable and reliable watch that NASA could find. I am sure the Hasselblad was chosen for the same reason. The Hasselblad "Lunar" camera of today would be most suitable for supplemental solid fuel for the boosters. If you have the cajones to name a camera the "Lunar", at least make it tie in with the legacy somehow. There is literally not a single even tenuous connection between this camera and the camera on the moon, not even the company that produced it (and I am not even thinking Sony here...Hasselblad has changed hands several times and is no longer the company that made the lunar cameras). And yes, I have an axe to grind, as I love the brand. I have an Xpan II, a 203FE and full kit and an X5 scanner. And boy, am I pissed, as in the last few years I have had complete **** service from Hasselblad corporate (you can't even call them...they refer you to your country distributor...a problem in a country where the distributor is a single camera store who already said they can't help you), several hundred euro charges for "preventative maintenance" on a warranty repair for a scanner less than a year old, and now the company is basically driving the only thing good about the company off a cliff -- the actual quality of the products.
    I am so so so so glad I went with the Leica S2 instead of an H series camera. I certainly dodged a bullet there.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook

  45. #45
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The Hasselblad "Lunar" camera of today would be most suitable for supplemental solid fuel for the boosters.
    Unfortunately, it won't do. Boosters use a polymer fuel (plastic, dismissed by a HB exec). Even there, "smart" materials are used.

    Comparing this utter crap to anything useful (or useless) is futile, I am afraid.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  46. #46
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The circus isn't over yet. Here is a sketch of the "Lunar" RX100.

    Hasselblad compact en dslr op komst, met hulp van Sony | DIGIFOTO Pro

  47. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    If you check out Luca's profile on LinkedIn you will see that prior to completely destroying the Hasselblad brand he worked in kitchen appliances and tripods ...

  48. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    The Dslr sketch in that digifoto link was actually not so bad! Too bad it is just a skin for the a99?

    We have a saying in Sweden that goes "att styla en volvo är som att sminka en gris" and it translates to "to style up a volvo is like putting make up on a pig" and this image sums up pretty well what hasselblad has done with the Lunar.

    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  49. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Also, in terms of leveraging your "Lunar legacy", take a tip from Omega. They may have gone off the deep end with some of their lunar commemoratives, but the watch that most people care the most about is the actual watch that was on the moon -- the Speedmaster Professional. Still produced, and not significantly changed from the original watch that was on the moon. The reason it was on the moon was that it was the best, most durable and reliable watch that NASA could find. I am sure the Hasselblad was chosen for the same reason. The Hasselblad "Lunar" camera of today would be most suitable for supplemental solid fuel for the boosters. If you have the cajones to name a camera the "Lunar", at least make it tie in with the legacy somehow. There is literally not a single even tenuous connection between this camera and the camera on the moon, not even the company that produced it (and I am not even thinking Sony here...Hasselblad has changed hands several times and is no longer the company that made the lunar cameras). And yes, I have an axe to grind, as I love the brand. I have an Xpan II, a 203FE and full kit and an X5 scanner. And boy, am I pissed, as in the last few years I have had complete **** service from Hasselblad corporate (you can't even call them...they refer you to your country distributor...a problem in a country where the distributor is a single camera store who already said they can't help you), several hundred euro charges for "preventative maintenance" on a warranty repair for a scanner less than a year old, and now the company is basically driving the only thing good about the company off a cliff -- the actual quality of the products.
    I am so so so so glad I went with the Leica S2 instead of an H series camera. I certainly dodged a bullet there.
    Well said! I was finished with Hasselblad after I ordered a H4D-60 that wouldn't materialize even after a year and in the end I just went for Leaf. I cannt count how many times I was assured by Hasselblad that the camera would come in a matter of weeks. It was a complete joke and possibly the worst customer experience I've ever had. They were so good at one point in time but sadly lost it. With a former kitchen appliances guy rebranding 1.1k cameras for 6.5k ... all hope is lost, it seems.

    People react so emotionally now because it's just sad to see one of the last standing venerable camera brands dismantle itself in such a disgracious manner. Arguing that a 300 USD aluminium shell and wooden handgrips completely eat up their margin of a few 1000 USD is just an insult to the intelligence of their customer base even if you factor in a nice Danish guy gluing the lizard leather to the grip for 40 USD/h wage. C'mon.

    Haha, and producing a wide-angle that doesn't cover full-frame MFD sensors but some crop factors introduced by sensor designs 4-5 years ago ...
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

    This is really a unique event. How many times in history does every employee in a company go through a mid-life crisis all at the same time?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •