Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like

    How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    I don't think I'm very creative in any sense, but can certainly appreciate a good, creative photograph when I see one. But up to what point can one learn to be a creative photographer and how much is creativity something that one is born with? This is something I've been wondering about.

    Anybody can learn the technical skills. Anybody can learn rules of composition, different artistic styles, different rules set by this or that -ism. But after all the learning like this, is the photographer really producing something by him/herself or just repeating somebody else's view and style?

    To find an own style? To see and take advantage of the moments, angles and situations to produce something truly original? Where does that creativity come from?

    I know people say that 90% of almost anything is perspiration and only 10% inspiration. And that mastering something takes 10 000 hrs of practice. But while I have no high goals for my photography, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be much more of a visionary even after 10 000 hrs.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Practice. Yes, that. But practice isn't necessarily perspiration.
    One the rare occasions I take good photos they always come from luck/instinct/inspiration, however you like to define it. I don't think I've ever taken a good photo that I thought up in advance. But I do practice.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Producing good work, and being visionary are two very different things (although visionary tends to produce good work).

    the truly visionary are very very very rare... maybe just a few every decade

    But you don't have to be visionary to produce good work... and a lot of it is putting a lot of film/images through a camera, as well as viewing other's photography, painting, sculpture, film. I can produce decent work.. but i'm far from what i would consider 'creative'. It's taken me 30 some odd years of constant shooting to start to develop a 'look' that might be recognizable as mine (but this really isn't visionary, as much as letting my personality come through in my images)

    jim

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    I don't think I'm very creative in any sense, but can certainly appreciate a good, creative photograph when I see one. But up to what point can one learn to be a creative photographer and how much is creativity something that one is born with? This is something I've been wondering about.

    Anybody can learn the technical skills. Anybody can learn rules of composition, different artistic styles, different rules set by this or that -ism. But after all the learning like this, is the photographer really producing something by him/herself or just repeating somebody else's view and style?

    To find an own style? To see and take advantage of the moments, angles and situations to produce something truly original? Where does that creativity come from?

    I know people say that 90% of almost anything is perspiration and only 10% inspiration. And that mastering something takes 10 000 hrs of practice. But while I have no high goals for my photography, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be much more of a visionary even after 10 000 hrs.

    What do you think?
    Jim Collum
    web: http://www.jcollum.com
    web: http://www.collumphotography.com
    email: [email protected]
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,344
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Going to art school changed and improved my creative work dramatically. It lead to better quality, and even more importantly: higher consistency. A vision and a concept come from somewhere else. For me, I believe it is from a combination of general knowledge, state of mind and experience, but people are different and different factors trigger their creativity. Hard work and lots of patience are more often than not an important factor though. Walking the extra mile sometimes makes creative wonders.

    Real artistic genius is, as Jim points out, very rare, and stems from abilities that few if any can define.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Hosermage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Agree with all of the above, and I would just like to add: experimentation. Maybe a true genius can see the final result before he/she starts, but I bet a lot start by experimenting on different ideas. Just the act of experimenting forces you to be more creative on different approaches.
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Luck and being prepared. Being prepared is what the practice is about. Luck defines genius.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York suburb
    Posts
    458
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    I took a course at Intl Center of Photography a couple of years ago on "Finding your Photographic Voice". I found it of limited use. The instructor was good but mostly just critiqued our work (which was of value) but everyone in that class came at things from their own standpoint, some very avant garde, some pretty interesting, some not so (not saying where I would be categorized). I came away asking the same question the OP asked, that is, whether vision can be taught, and I remain quite unsure. The only thing I am sure of is that if you push yourself to do better you will do better. Whether you will be a world class photographer is another matter. I suspect that if it isn't in your genes, you can get very good but not great.
    Alan

    Selection of work: http://weinschela.zenfolio.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Thinking precedes inspiration and perspiration.

    Creativity is not the domaine of Art, it is all around us.

    Robert Oppenheimer often walked under the desert stars just musing on problems ... and suddenly solutions presented themselves in a burst of clarity ... then hundreds of people provided the perspiration . He was fond of quoting passages from Hindu Scripture to make sense of things ... meaning that the unfamiliar often brings clarity.

    There are visual principles based on what pleases or disturbs the human mind, so one can walk about and find things to make images of using them. To invent the new combination of existing thoughts is far more rare, and usually cannot be accomplished without knowing what has come before, and rarely without stimulation from peer groups.

    In the book "Geniuses Together" a case has been made that all great leaps forward in creative thinking was a group think/debate, with individualism being the catalyst for actually doing something with that fresh thinking.

    Creativity springs from defining intent ... the intuitive mind is surprisingly good at making something of an idea. Without any idea, one is just waiting for an accident, and the taste to recognize it as a good mistake. Unfortunately it may never happen and you can spend the rest of you life wandering in a creative wilderness.

    Also, it is imperative that the thinking be expressed and seen. As Picasso said: " A painting kept in the closet, may as well be kept in the head."

    -Marc
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ...Without any idea, one is just waiting for an accident, and the taste to recognize it as a good mistake. Unfortunately it may never happen and you can spend the rest of you life wandering in a creative wilderness...
    And to take Marc out of context (I am being creative here ), the type of photography you are doing really impacts the process. How many documentary and street photographers wait for an accident? I think there is a certain amount of accidents in a studio as well, although that can be a very tight discipline if working under direction.

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
    I came away asking the same question the OP asked, that is, whether vision can be taught, and I remain quite unsure.
    Well, it depends what you mean by "vision." And whether that has to be defined as "unique." I rarely see a photograph today that has not be taken before. And most of the "new" work is because of a technical advancement rather than a creative one.

    But if "vision" is your vision and "unique" is unique to you, then I think you can learn. But the teacher is a guide. They do not give you your vision, but give you an opportunity to try to find it. You still have to do the work. And no offense, but one workshop is going to take you so far. I have worked all my life on my photography. It is very much a work in progress. I was lucky to have a very intense education that gave me a certain critical mass so I could take it from there. But the further you go, the longer you realize the road is. There is no destination.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    To expand on the notion of whether creativity can be taught:

    Perhaps it cannot be taught like in a course, seminar or workshop ... or rarely can be (I've only seen one that did) ... but I suspect it can be learned.

    The best manner of learning I've personally experienced was to un-learn first ... to inflict a dadaist undoing on your own beliefs that were formed by previous ... learning.

    Returning to the notion of "intent" ... this is basically over-looked in many areas of photography because the intent isn't to produce art. Most serious art is fueled by intent and that intent is stated ... there is an idea being played out in the visual portrayal ... Cindy Sherman doesn't just go about making photo art willy nilly ... she has a clear intent.

    Most of us wander about without a road map ... then one day stop and wonder why we are lost.

    -Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    I am not sure what "creativity" is. It certainly does not come from nothing. It is based on experience. Is "creativity" simply arranging form in an effective way that is not simply copying? Then what you have are people that are good at spacial thinking. Those people can see the spacial possibilities and find a solution. In that sense, you can exercise that kind of thought in a classroom. Just as people that are good at games can think strategically and tactically. You get good at that by learning and practicing.

    I think the problem is we put some some of mystical or metaphysical baggage onto creativity in the arts. I know enough artists that understand they don't have some divine skill, at least the ones that can control their egos.

  13. #13
    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    newport, RI
    Posts
    805
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    A few years ago when I was in my late 60's, I took a eight week summer course (Photographing Landscape) at the Rhode Island School of Design. For those of you who are not familiar with RISD, it one of the premiere school in the US for students interested in studying Design and Architecture. The school is extremely difficult to get into, the students are all very brilliant. I got lucky; there was one space available and they allowed me to fill it.
    I was 48 years older than any other student and 38 years older than the professor.
    We would meet at a different location late in the afternoon each week-photograph the location during the golden light- and then convene a class in a local Italian restaurant (think pizza) and receive critique on the prior weeks work. Most of the students were not too familiar with a camera and almost none of them had ever used a required tripod before the first session. My fellow students initially were in awe of my knowledge of photography and peppered me with questions.
    As the weeks progressed, these highly creative and brilliant young people started exhibiting work in the critique sessions that amazed me.
    I was asking them-where was that-how did you conceive of that angle-how did you conceive of that out of focus and depth of field???
    These young people were born with a gift that I will never possess- I can't explain the gift-they just saw things differently from most people and were smart enough in this instance to translate their vision into remarkable photographs.
    At the conclusion of the course, the class had an exhibit of their work at a library in Cranston, RI. At a very long session the class determined the best work of each student's portfolio created during those eight weeks, and the images were printed, framed and hung.
    I went to the opening of the exhibit and was surprised to discover a substantial group of people who had been coming annually to enjoy the creativity of each class.
    What these young people possessed was a gift that they were born with-I don't think the gift can be learned-but I am a much better photographer having been exposed to their thought process
    Stanley
    Likes 6 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    A few years ago when I was in my late 60's, I took a eight week summer course (Photographing Landscape) at the Rhode Island School of Design. For those of you who are not familiar with RISD, it one of the premiere school in the US for students interested in studying Design and Architecture. The school is extremely difficult to get into, the students are all very brilliant. I got lucky; there was one space available and they allowed me to fill it.
    I was 48 years older than any other student and 38 years older than the professor.
    We would meet at a different location late in the afternoon each week-photograph the location during the golden light- and then convene a class in a local Italian restaurant (think pizza) and receive critique on the prior weeks work. Most of the students were not too familiar with a camera and almost none of them had ever used a required tripod before the first session. My fellow students initially were in awe of my knowledge of photography and peppered me with questions.
    As the weeks progressed, these highly creative and brilliant young people started exhibiting work in the critique sessions that amazed me.
    I was asking them-where was that-how did you conceive of that angle-how did you conceive of that out of focus and depth of field???
    These young people were born with a gift that I will never possess- I can't explain the gift-they just saw things differently from most people and were smart enough in this instance to translate their vision into remarkable photographs.
    At the conclusion of the course, the class had an exhibit of their work at a library in Cranston, RI. At a very long session the class determined the best work of each student's portfolio created during those eight weeks, and the images were printed, framed and hung.
    I went to the opening of the exhibit and was surprised to discover a substantial group of people who had been coming annually to enjoy the creativity of each class.
    What these young people possessed was a gift that they were born with-I don't think the gift can be learned-but I am a much better photographer having been exposed to their thought process
    Stanley
    Very insightful post Stanley.

    There is no doubt in my mind that if there is a mystery behind being visually creative, it is somewhat hard-wired from birth and either nurtured or suppressed during formative years. How many of us had it nurtured or suppressed is the burning question. There are probably more people with an inherent talent that is dormant than we may ever know ... and a return to a child-like wonder of discovery could unlock it. As Picasso said when ask how he liked the children's art at a school he was touring: "When I was their age I could draw like Raphael. It has taken me a lifetime to learn how to draw like them".

    I discovered very early on that I could draw and sculpt, something inherited from my mother who then nurtured it ... and was further nurtured by my grade school Art teacher who got me into special classes at the Detroit Institute of Arts Museum. This preordained my path in life where I went on to art school, became a painter, designer, illustrator ... and eventually into a "Creative" career in advertising after the practicality of earning a living to feed my family raised its demanding head

    During my long career, I was in constant contact with others like me (painters, writers, art directors, designers, Illustrators, photographers, directors, cinematographers), which is why I believe in cross pollination amongst those with obvious talent. So, while one feels quite special amongst a grade school population, when thrust into a gaggle of like souls, the "specialness" fades rapidly.

    As a creative director, it was my job to get the best from each creative person that answered to me, which boiled down to playing nurturing Mom to many, and then selecting who's stuff got taped to the refrigerator door as a form of natural selection that created a competition to excel. It is very hard to explain the process of creativity to those unfamiliar with naturally experiencing it as a matter of daily demand ... but over the years it became clear that it was triggered by an intuitive impulse to think and form ideas differently right from the start, which leads directly to seeing differently in the case of the visual arts.

    Here is a non-photographic example that solved a way to sell a product by offering a unique selling idea:

    Years ago, Yamaha wanted to sell a new TV in a world crammed with known brands of TVs. None of the business guys could come up with what made this one different. I explored alternative paths and discovered that the target audience was young ... and their relevant exposure to Yamaha was audio, not visual ... the big amps at rock concerts, pianos and keyboards. So, we strategically differentiated their product that way ... and the "creative" leap was expressed in the tag line ... "The Best Picture You Ever Heard". Think, muse, ponder first, then create.

    It seems that the direction to discover or advance one's own originality is to ... know the known, reject the known, discover the unknown. It is hard to find any advancement in any art form, creative field, or personal creativity that didn't do that.

    -Marc
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    I think the answer to what Stanley was musing about is the word 'art'. I teach photography in a local art college. Even just 6 months in, most have forgot all I've taught them about the technicalities of photography but they still come out with consistently incredible work every single time. They are artists, the camera is just another medium for what they want to say, the important thing is that they have something to say and a drive to say it. Most photographers, techy heads, know how to take a photo but rarely know how to say anything with it.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    But while I have no high goals for my photography, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be much more of a visionary even after 10 000 hrs.

    What do you think?
    In your particular case, I agree

  17. #17
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Mike, did you just drop by to cheer us up or did you have something real to contribute?

    I would love to see some of your work.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    A thread that is close to my heart.

    Two books to read that I have found very insightful.

    1. The Act of Creation - Arthur Koestler
    2. The Master and his Emissary - Iain McGilchrist

    I have heard it said that - "Lots of people want to be Bob Dylan - but that jobs taken"

    Be yourself - discover who you are and find your own personal well spring of creativity - it may be small to start but unless the real joy is in creating something / somehow - I don't see how ones creative urge is going to blossom.

    Mal

    PS - also agree with the experiment line someone earlier said - its fun to explore and get out of my depth.



    Acrylic paint on glass, submerged in water, the paint film then detached and floated on the water surface -
    Last edited by malmac; 12th March 2013 at 14:09. Reason: typo
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Mike, did you just drop by to cheer us up or did you have something real to contribute?

    I would love to see some of your work.
    The reason why he won't learn anything is because he's like an apprentice that thinks the sorcerer has nothing to teach him. You have a lot in common with him. BTW - Why would anybody submit work for you to judge? The last picture I saw you post was a blurry shallow DOF picture of tree bark.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    34

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Interesting topic. I grew up being very technical, programming in 2nd grade and I loved math and science. The side effect was that I spent pretty much no time in artistic pursuits and I think it's come back to bite me a bit when I started taking photos seriously a few years ago. I've been going to a school the past couple years that I feel has helped me out a lot. Getting nice images isn't so difficult I think, but I found my work just didn't speak to anyone. It was just copies of stuff that anyone can take with a little time.

    Jim's comment above about letting your personality come through in your images is pretty much what I've discovered too. To develop that skill I try to take 36 photos every day. (from when I was shooting at least a roll a day a couple years ago). iPhone or camera, it doesn't really matter, but it's good training to see the interesting photos in your everyday life. I just snap at things that catch my eye. Spend too much time composing a photo and it looks too planned, more like a picture. (Lines all straight etc) I realize that certain types of photography require this, but I'm speaking more about my daily photos. This type of thing has helped me more than anything. Seeing everyday, all day at a photographic opportunity, not just the times I want to go take photos. It's opening my eyes to all sorts of things I'd never normally shoot. Unfortunately I've been slacking off lately and need to give myself a kick in the butt.

    The other side is Jorgen's comment about consistency. So often now days you see people moving from camera to camera, style to style (B&W, Color, HDR... etc), lens to lens. Shooting with just a 50mm lens on the same camera for a couple years was a good experience. I won't say everyone needs to do it, but this helped my consistency a lot. I started to see commonalities, and bad habits looking at my daily photos. Printing helps too. Even smaller prints like L2 up on the wall can quickly show sloppy inconsistent processing. I think getting something like an Epson R3000 and printing regularly can be more helpful to improving your photos than a new camera or lens.

    From my class (which is most just a bunch of group critiques) one other things became apparent. Processing and printing is really an important part of photography. Even a photo of a mundane everyday object in your house can make a wonderful photo when printed beautifully and easily trumps the most amazing photo printed badly. Even if you display most of your stuff on the screen I think it improves your processing. Another result of this is that I'm beginning to previsualize my images more.

    I'm never quite sure what vision means. I don't normally preplan shots and go out and search for them or create them. Right now I tend to take photos over 3-6 months and pick a selection of 16-20 to present at our school wide group critique. I think those with a vision know the theme of what they want to shoot and work toward creating a set of photos to fulfill that vision. That's a skill I still have yet to develop, but I'm learning that I need to to continue to progress.

    I guess this is was filled with details of my experiences. I think creating unique creative photographs is something you can learn and the 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration is true. I spent a couple years searching for shortcuts, but there is no replacement for time, practice and experience.
    Charles - flickr
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    The reason why he won't learn anything is because he's like an apprentice that thinks the sorcerer has nothing to teach him. You have a lot in common with him. BTW - Why would anybody submit work for you to judge? The last picture I saw you post was a blurry shallow DOF picture of tree bark.
    Wow. We are just full of prejudices. And obviously not an art lover. Do you often project onto strangers?

    But you answered my question. I guess you just came to cheer us up.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  22. #22
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Well my signature says it all but exposing yourself to the many avenues of learning certainly helps in many ways. I have done them all Art school actually 2 of them an assistant for about 4 years , many years teaching myself and experimenting everyday, obviously being a working Pro for many years as well helps. Now I teach workshops, one on ones and consult people. I'm still learning and hopefully it never ends. I do believe in personality, curiosity and many personal traits that keep you fueled to learn and experiment . Not sure it's one thing or another and having vision and a good eye for design are really the big keys but all that experience in learning can not be ignored either. For me I give myself what abilities I may have to everything above and I guess my best advice is just flat exposé yourself to all those avenues and don't have a narrow mind. But if I had to say one thing than go with my signature its all in developing vision.

    Today I shot for 7 hours straight 2 models and over 900 images , tomorrow its wash and repeat. Jobs or work like this keeps your tuning in order and no matter how many shots I do , I still learn. Maybe it's still the most single value that keeps me going is I still learn. Don't ever lose sight of that learning.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    A bit north of Copenhagen
    Posts
    1,522
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    569

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    perhaps one of the greatest task at all is to learn to leave the book-keepers mind at home, and then let the camera play in your hand as a united and extended thing direct from your mind, and then let your mind set itself free and grab the visions that are floating in your mind when you see things, learn to grab the bubbles and the split-seconds of dreams and visions that get visualized in your mind in these golden moments, and then learn to grab, to do it ,and nail it...perhaps that’s the greatest task and challenge to learn (and yes, then the routine and skill, where the camera get handled as an natural and a grown-together-with-you tool helps). And I wish I could do it....
    Thorkil
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Very early in my creative trek in the service of comerce, it became very clear that technology was changing so rapidly that keeping abreast of it interfered with my development of a signature vision. In short, I was providing the perspiration for someone else's inspiration. So, I strove to become the mind behind the doing.

    The consequence of this was an almost meteoric rise in my chosen creative field ... but more importantly an immunity to obsolescence. Forming ideas does not require deep emersion into the techniques needed to execute them ... just a working familiarity with what can be done.

    This put me in touch with some incredibly creative people who innovated ways to help express and expand on my ideas. Eventually this rubbed off on me and I began shooting my own ideas. In short, my issue was the opposite of most photographers ... my ideas were greater than my ability to execute them ... which is something I am still working on.

    However, since today's technology has made it easier, ideas have become even more important in the mix if one is to realize creative potential. Think about it ... Michelangelo didn't accidentally find "David" in a random block of marble, he had something in mind first

    What is often not touched upon in discussions like this is the precursor to all creativity ... Human Sensitivity.

    Sensitivity is an inner trait that I believe can be enhanced if deliberately cultivated. If there is a "born with" attribute of those deemed talented, it is this. As my old boss of Young & Rubicam Alex Kroll once said, "Send the creative people, not the suits ... they have more finely tuned antenna."

    So whether one pre-plans a photo, or steps out to find one ... the determining attribute is their level of sensitivity to the world around them.

    -Marc
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #25
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central Maine, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Lots of good thoughts here. And a slippery topic it is. The old chestnut of "don't know how to define it but know it when I see it" seems to apply (simply replace creativity for pornography).

    The difficulty with responding to this post in any way seems to include the unspoken admission that I think I know something about creativity. Which is a bit presumptuous. Although I have experienced it, I'm not sure I could ever explain from whence it came since it seems an elusive, transitory, ethereal state. All of which sounds sort of magical and "nice" but if you've ever been paid to be "creative" you'll know how downright frightening that transaction feels after the initial flush of success at having won the assignment.

    And yet it does happen. As others have suggested, hours or years of experience do add up to, if nothing else, a bit more confidence that you will prevail.

    Teachers and schools can help, but in my experience, not in the ways I anticipate. I'm not sure I could ever say that a workshop teacher (fill in the name of an accepted "genius") actually "taught" me to be creative. But the immersion in the process and the focus has led me to new places in my own thinking.

    So maybe one small component in one's creative evolution is to peel away from attempting to create mime's of what others have done and forgetting everything (including approvals) except what attracts you. In some form of self-imposed exercise, I like to walk around with a camera and just shoot stuff for no reason. It's strictly personal and since I don't really give a sh*t what anyone else might think, I get to explore the little nuggets of light and shape and texture. I manage to learn a lot somehow. Which is one measure of success on a personal level.

    Best,
    Tim
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Thanks, everybody. ...Well, almost everybody.

    This thread has raised much more and better discussion than I dared to wish. Lots of good points well worth thinking about.

  27. #27
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    @malmac, I found the book The Act of Creation by Arthur Koestler and yes it is very insightful indeed!
    100's of open to enter Photo Contests
    Contest Guru

  28. #28
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?

    Jef Curtos has a good podcast that might relate to this ...

    Jeff Curto's Camera Position » Camera Position 126 : Arno Says “Stay On The Bus”

    He talks about staying on the bus ...

    http://www.cameraposition.com/wp-con...rch%202013.pdf

  29. #29
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How much can one LEARN good photography and artistic vision?


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •