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Thread: Re: Paypal Question...Help!

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Hi All,

    I ran into a payment situation I'm unfamilar with. Being here in the States I have sold items where the overseas buyer pays for an item via Paypal, their being a Paypal member. I realize many of the precautions one needs take in order to get Paypal protection against fraud.

    A potential buyer from HK of an item I have for sale is not a Paypal member but would like to pay via credit card through Paypal. I guess (and am just assuming) Paypal has a service where anyone can pay for an item via a sort of Paypal "check-out"system, much like a google check out payment system? If my assumptions are corrects, as my being a Paypal member, am I afforded any protection in case his payment is fraudulent like with a stolen credit card?

    He is a new e-Bay member with only one positive feedback with his purchase of a pricy photography lens and both gave and received and has been corresponding with me thru the eBay message system. So I'm trying to assess my situation with regards to protecting myself during this sale and that's the nature of my question regarding a non Paypal member paying via credit card through what I would assume is a Paypal type "check-out" system. Thanks for any feedback you can provided, much appreciated!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 6th September 2013 at 07:13.

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Dave,

    A number of years ago I sold a Canon 1D to a Paypal member who paid through credit card. Shipped to a confirmed address after the funds were transferred to my Paypal account.

    Three days later Paypal informed me that the credit card transaction appeared to be bogus and they withdrew the monies leaving me with no camera, no money and no recourse.

    Turned out that he had done the transaction at his daughters house on the weekend and they thought since addresses were off...computer wise that it was a fraudulent transaction...subsequently cleared up.

    That taught me that there is little protection from PP....they will cover their own not yours.

    Personally I would look for a buyer with a history, confirmed address and one I knew from some online activity. Too many loose ends on this one...IMHO.

    Be careful out there....

    Bob

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    I've bought and sold equipment with people all over the world.

    If I am unsure of a buyer when selling, I wait until the payment from Paypal is POSTED to my bank account, then I ship the goods. I tell the buyer up front, of course; none have ever found this an issue. Paypal cannot withdraw funds from your bank account without your express permission to do so: it doesn't matter what their payment instrument is, it just matters that the money is now in your hands.

    If I am unsure of a seller, I don't buy. Period.

    In all my time doing Ebay and Paypal, I have never had a problem that wasn't resolved quickly and to my satisfaction with that simple policy.

    G

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Bob, thank you ever so much for your response and advice and I realize the bottom line is one cannot be too careful with on-line transactions, especially from those with relatively little history to show.

    What I neglected to mention to eveyone is the item for sale is on eBay and he would purchase it through eBay butay for it simply via his credit card through Paypal, not as a PayPal member but simply making a one time payment using the Paypal credit card option when one buys an eBay option. In this case with me being a Long time PayPal member, would I retain my Paypal protection if he paid as described? That's the big question I'm trying to answer. Thanks again.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Thank you Godfrey! My experience has been much like yours but I also realize many have been burnt. From what I understand and I may be mistaken, Paypal has withdrawn funds automatically from Paypal member acc'ts if a transaction is fraudulent without permission. That's the part that worries me. Even if they couldn't withdraw the funds automatically, I don't wAnt to be in the position of having to return the funds to Paypal at a later date if they found the credit card was fraudulent.

    would wait till the funds are in the acc't prior to shipping of course. I just added a post above describing a few additional set details of this potential transaction.

    Thank you once again.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Don't ship until you transfer to your bank account and its posted there. You can do a one time payment through Paypal using a credit card. You could also setup a Square account but they may hold funds the first time.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    They can withdraw funds from your Paypal account. You give them the right to do so when you sign up.

    They cannot withdraw from your bank without your permission. You only give them that permission when you authorize a payment drawn from a bank.

    Whether a credit card is fraudulent or not is irrelevant. The institution that authorizes a credit card transaction is the liable party if they authorize a transaction on a card which is fraudulent. They may come after you for payment on their loss, but if you sent goods in good faith on the basis of their authorizing a payment, they have to recover the goods for you before you reimburse them.

    That's my understanding, I am not a lawyer. Happily, it has never been an issue for me to deal with. My CCs have been compromised three times. IN all cases, the authorizing agency reimbursed me for the losses. What they did afterwards was never reported to me.

    You can always request alternative payment, like a wire transfer or bank check drawn on a US bank in US currency. If your buyer is good, they'll understand.

    G

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Thank you Godfrey! My experience has been much like yours but I also realize many have been burnt. From what I understand and I may be mistaken, Paypal has withdrawn funds automatically from Paypal member acc'ts if a transaction is fraudulent without permission. That's the part that worries me. Even if they couldn't withdraw the funds automatically, I don't wAnt to be in the position of having to return the funds to Paypal at a later date if they found the credit card was fraudulent.

    would wait till the funds are in the acc't prior to shipping of course. I just added a post above describing a few additional set details of this potential transaction.

    Thank you once again.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Dave,

    As long as the eBay transaction is listed as having seller protection, and you follow the procedures/guidelines for eBay seller protection on that transaction, it doesn't matter where the funds come from or whether the buyer has a PayPal account or uses a guest account. If it ends up being a fraudulent credit card transaction, you will be protected.

    Hope this helps.

    Robert

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Thank you all ever so much for all your timely and great advice. Everyone of course has different experiences and it's good to hear and see all sides of the equation. My greatest concern isn't so much the use of a fraudulent credit card and of course I wil internationally ship with all required signatures of acceptance of the parcel..it's where some sort of scam occurs where the buyer claims something like he received the wrong or bugs item or that it was defective/damaged in some way and try's to reverse charges made and gets both his money back and what is returned (f anything), is not what I sent.

    I"m not a worry wort so to speak but when I factor destination, not a Paypal member, little history except what appears to be one legitimate photo purchase ( it was for a pricy item), these were my concerns. At least he has and gave one favorable feedback. If I specifically didn't thank everyone by name, I hope you know your comments were greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Of course, all those scenarios can happen regardless of the payment method. That's more a question of "should I sell on eBay or not?" I assume you've already made that decision.

    Best of luck, Dave!

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Hi Monza,

    I was away from a computer after I last posted so I didn't see your latest post till now. Yes, you're completely right. First there is the question of the buyer being ligitimate and then of course dealing with both Paypal and ebay if something should go amiss. Always a risk factor and guess all one can do is try to minimize the risks as best as one can. All this advixe has greatly helped! Thank you!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    I really try avoid ebay anymore . The costs to sell are really high. Frankly when I have trouble selling a item in my time frame( now) I just lower the price here. In the end it equals out.

    Of course I have zero patience so that accounts for it too. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    So true Guy! Sometimes it's about patience and waiting for the right kind of buyer to come along, the question though is sometimes related to time and how long it will take before it sells.Thats often the advantage to eBay, even though it often creates problems for others.there unfortunately is no perfect solution.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Exactly Dave. It seems the real market is Leica gear and if your somewhat of a investor in camera gear its about the only thing that holds value. Typical supply and demand which accounts for some unreasonable pricing we see. The rest of gear seems to depreciate pretty fast and its hard to sell and there always seems some idiots enough on eBay to buy. I chalk that up to the game of winning the bid. Nothing more

    But for sellers the fees are getting way to high and its always somewhat of a risk. The one that scares me more than most is they can claim they received a brick and that one no matter how careful you are as a seller its a hard one to defend even documenting the packaging and shipping labels there is no proof you actually sent THAT box . You may have shipped anything.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    But for sellers the fees are getting way to high and its always somewhat of a risk. The one that scares me more than most is they can claim they received a brick and that one no matter how careful you are as a seller its a hard one to defend even documenting the packaging and shipping labels there is no proof you actually sent THAT box . You may have shipped anything.
    Guy, all you wrote is so true but none more so than this last paragraph of yours (above). There is some protection against credit card fraud but what protection is there is someone claims you sent them a brick or say a beat-up lens as opposed to exactly what was pictured and described for sale? If photogrhs of documenting ones packing up the item doesn't do it, what will?

    One would think for example, eBay, Paypal or whatever would side with the for example a 13 year user with more than a 1000 perfect positives as opposed to those who scam who generally have less than a couple of documented transactions. One would think Paypal by now is aware of these scams. To be fair, same thing goes for honest buyers who have a lengthy record of perfect buying transactions but receive a busted junk item in the mail from unscrupulous sellers.

    I guess it all comes back to how and to whom one sells and buys from and not a whole lot more one can do except to be careful and attempt to dot all the "i"'s and cross all the "t"'s, so to speak.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    I can't share these negative views, Dave. EBay has done very well for me, and my brother too. I've bought and sold with a few hundred transactions, made a fair piece of change at it, and have not had any insurmountable problems along the way. I've been happy, my buyers too, and it's the largest market in the world at present for used camera gear.

    The key is to work at it, set yourself up to streamline the process, and build good relations with buyers. Just like any small storefront... !

    G

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Godfrey, My personal experiences, especially on eBay mirrors yours and I can't say I've run into any issues. Yet sometimes a buy or sale fits outside the normal pattern of most transactions, at least for me and when combined with the stories I often read and hear about, especially with regards to some international sales and/or destinations, it raises a red flag.

    Proceeding with caution and taking all the necessary measures to protect oneself is of course the most important step, but even doing so, certain transactions due to a combination of obvious factors makes one stop and think. Maybe in the end the concerns are unfounded but it only takes one transaction where things go south really quick, to change everything.

    Receiving everyone's feedback here regarding their suggestions and experiences most definitely helps a great deal and although nothing is foolproof, still provided additional ideas how to protect oneself and look out for the pitfalls. Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    eBay is a safe way to sell. When I say *safe* I don't mean 'risk-free' as there is no method that is 'risk-free' -- and that includes cash, in person. I find eBay no more risk than selling through a retail store front. It may be even *more* risky to accept a swiped credit card in person. Those who have had credit card merchant accounts know what I'm talking about.

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Hi Dave,

    I agree with all the previous comments. Ebay always makes me nervous; itís always a gamble and the cost to sellers has gotten quite high. On the other hand, I've bought and sold 100s of photo items on ebay and had only one really bad experience: I bought a Gitzo at a price too good to be true. Ebay reimbursed me the funds despite my foolishness.

    I've read some horror stories about Paypal. Are they true? I don't know, but I have a separate checking account for Paypal use only. Paypal knows nothing about my real account. Not an immediate solution, but one you might consider for the future.

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    Hi Tom,

    Appreciate your comments and suggestions and yes, having a separate bank acc't strictly for eBay/Paypal transactions is a wise approach. The adage "too good to be true" often applies to items for sale that are priced at a price point that most know cannot be ligitimate. On the other side of the coin, is my dilemma where a relatively new eBay/PayPal member is a bit confused on how things work, which is causing both delays and changes which I'll outline in my update post just below this one. Again thanks for posting your comments.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Paypal Question...Help!

    ***Update***

    Hi Everyone,

    I thought it only fair to provide an update to this particular transaction of mine which raised a number of questions. The overseas buyer involved is new to eBay (one ligitimate photographic purchase of a fairly expensive item) and has received and given one positive feedback. Not being a Paypal member, he simply will pay for the eBay item via a credit card thru Paypal.

    There are the issues that have arrisen so far and although I can see where some might say "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..etc.etc", I do want to keep in mind, we all were newbies of eBay and Paypal at one time and things might have been a little confusing for us as it appears to this potential buyer.

    Issue #1: shipping with full insurance to his destination is approx $125 . I wanted to cut him a small break, so I made it an even $100 . When he went to pay for the item, eBay automatically calculates the shipping charge to his destination, which came to $81.00 . I made up the $19.00 difference as listing it under handling fees. For whatever reason, when he goes to pay for the item in check-out, it does not show the correct total of $100 for the shipping, and he must pay exactly amount shown as the total cost is (of item plus shipping) in order to both pay and receive protection of his purchase.

    I finally got around this by simply saying just to pay the $81 for shipping as shown and I'll cover the rest. I haven't had experience making a direct purchase of an overseas eBay item and paying directly with a credit card, so I can't comment on what he encountered and why he couldn't pay the original shipping as eBay calculated along with the handling fees I added (which is simply part of the postal insurance costs)?

    Issue #2: when the above problem was resolved and he went to pay for the item directly via credit card thru Paypal, being a pricy item, they said his purchase was over the initial limit they set up for him and after he requested that limit be raised, that it would take 3-4 days to come back with an answer and do so. His very recent previous purchase of another photographic item was somewhat pricy and I would guess this might also have something to do with reaching some sort of spending limit.

    It didn't sound like he reached the spending limit on his actual credit card but simply some sort of Paypal protection where they initially provided his with an upper limit that he could charge. Whether that applies to a single transaction or it's additive to a number of recent purchases made, I don't know.

    So where this leads to I honest don't know and whether it should raise red flags or not, is hard to say. Thanks again everyone!

    Dave (D&A)

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