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No new cameras?

Shashin

Well-known member
That is of course the key to it all, but while all kinds of people, mothers, grandmothers, uncles and aunts, often took good care of their physical photos, made albums etc., very few make backups of their computers or smartphones. Most don't even know how to do that. And again: Those backups are probably useless in less than a 100 years anyway, since the devices can't be connected to any device that might be able to read it.

I've been working with computers since the early seventies. None of the storage devices that were in use for the first 10 of those years can be read today unless one digs up a working device from some museum. Even the early PC HDDs are becoming a challenge, since the bus interface have been changing, and now we are talking about units that are sometimes less than 20 years old. I'm sure there are many people out there with old backups on HDD units that they will have difficulty reading because of this. 20 more years? Forget about it.
You never migrated your data onto new hardware?? The stuff you need to take care of is the data.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
You never migrated your data onto new hardware?? The stuff you need to take care of is the data.
Yes.

Media is transitory. Data is forever. I've been working with digital images since the early 1980s. If I relied upon the media to be around, well, forget it. Most is long gone. But I always migrated my data to new media as it appeared.

I've not lost a single digital image file. Ever.

I don't know how many thousands of negatives and prints I've lost over the years. All I know is that I often remember a photo that is long long gone.

G
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
You never migrated your data onto new hardware?? The stuff you need to take care of is the data.
I do, and most of the data I ever created are intact. However, when I ask others, except photo enthusiasts or professionals, hardly anybody do.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The problem with commercial enterprises is that they are commercial, and when they don't make a profit anymore, they go bankrupt, like Digital Railroad did a few years ago. The cloud exists because people and/or commercial entities pay for it. The only thing that can be truly trusted are our own copies of whatever media we own. If schools weren't so hung up in previous decades, they would be teaching backup of essential data. If electronic stores weren't so hung up in the latest, profit making gadget, they would be promoting reliable, personal backup systems as a "must have" for anyone owning an electronic device able to capture data.

But they don't, and my guess is that they might never. Time these days is too precious to be spent on yesterday, when there's a stack of tomorrows waiting to be explored and captured, like fireflies or sparklers. Reminds me of the place where I live. There's one time only, an that time is now :)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The problem with commercial enterprises is that they are commercial, and when they don't make a profit anymore, they go bankrupt, like Digital Railroad did a few years ago. The cloud exists because people and/or commercial entities pay for it. The only thing that can be truly trusted are our own copies of whatever media we own. If schools weren't so hung up in previous decades, they would be teaching backup of essential data. If electronic stores weren't so hung up in the latest, profit making gadget, they would be promoting reliable, personal backup systems as a "must have" for anyone owning an electronic device able to capture data.

But they don't, and my guess is that they might never. Time these days is too precious to be spent on yesterday, when there's a stack of tomorrows waiting to be explored and captured, like fireflies or sparklers. Reminds me of the place where I live. There's one time only, and that time is now :)
Unfortunately, I fear you are right on all accounts Jorgen.

I have a fair amount of images located on SmugMug which isn't free storage. If they went belly up, it'd be a monumental task to migrate them somewhere else. My on-site storage is fraught with impermanence ... as they say it isn't a matter of IF a drive will fail, but WHEN.

Except for the minuscule amount of enthusiasts and even fewer pros, perhaps photography will be relegated to an ever rushing river of nows.

I still contend that it'll come back to haunt many who will wish they had preserved those memories.

I recall when my father passed and my family looked to preserve his memory for their children and children's children, it struck me that his life in photos nearly ended at the digital age ... sadly, even from me.

All I can do now is collect, sort, edit, and make some sort of book of family images and distribute it to my family.

- Marc
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
I remember when you told me that line about hard drives failing back in the photo.net days some 9 years ago. So incredibly true. I seem to have averaged a hard drive a year since then...

With our repro project we keep the main depository of data on Raid 6 NAS setups. Obviously not backup. We then have everything on two sets of tapes, one nearby, the other in Zurich (for obvious reasons and I have family there :D). Tapes were the decision we made for backup as for our uses it was the cheapest and most reliable way to run multiple backups that were not fragile for shipping abroad like a hard disk is or have to worry about it powering on again in 5 years for that matter.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here's a very simple, cheap backup solution for those who are interested:
I have all my external disks in relatively cheap ($100) 4-bay Probox cabinets. Two originals and two backups in each, no RAID. I have installed Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) on the computer (runs only on a Mac). CCC copies all data that have been changed or added to the backup disk automatically at given intervals (every second day in my case), or as soon as I start the computer if the interval has been exceeded. RAID 1 could probably given me similar functionality, but I have chosen the solution that I feel give me the best control.

Offsite backup, which I do every week, is copied to small, portable HDDs, and then copied automatically to another set of disks, in another Probox, at the offsite location. Offsite backup also uses CCC and can start automatically when the transport disk is connected. I only update backup of the latest photo HDD (2TB) and the general data HDD (1TB).

This way, the only manual operation performed by me is to connect and disconnect the transport disks once per week at each location. Setup is as simple as can be. CCC is made for humans :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I recall when my father passed and my family looked to preserve his memory for their children and children's children, it struck me that his life in photos nearly ended at the digital age ... sadly, even from me.

- Marc
Unfortunately, this is not the first time I have heard that, and it makes me sad every time.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
While folks like to blame digital, that is not the problem. The problem is people don't care until it is too late. I cannot tell you the number of people how come with a old faded 3x5 print that was never printed well and want to save it and simply tell me they don't know where the film is when I ask for it.

The problem is people. Technology, old or new, is not going to change basic psychology.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
After reading this review, I sat wondering what the real important improvements have appeared between the Spotmatic and the new Olympus E-M1. AF of course, and for most people, the replacement of film with a digital sensor. But the 7,567,828 functions on modern digital imaging devices... I'm not sure how much they have contributed to photography.

Blast from the Past: 1965 Pentax Spotmatic Review
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Jorgen, try shooting architecture with and without live view on a DSLR, I promise you there are some features on my camera now that although I could and have until now done without, are a real boon to making my life easier.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
While folks like to blame digital, that is not the problem. The problem is people don't care until it is too late. I cannot tell you the number of people how come with a old faded 3x5 print that was never printed well and want to save it and simply tell me they don't know where the film is when I ask for it.

The problem is people. Technology, old or new, is not going to change basic psychology.
I already mention that ... people saved prints not negs. In the case of professionally shot portraits or milestone family events (Births, religious milestones, weddings, anniversaries, etc.), they never had the negs. The photographer owned them.

The difference is that many if not most, damaged prints can be restored ... at least there is something to work with. With lost digital files, there is nothing.

Yes, basic human nature will be at play always ... which is why I believe it has to be an almost automatic, no brainer way of storage ... call it the "Family Foto Shoebox" or something so they get the purpose.

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Jorgen, try shooting architecture with and without live view on a DSLR, I promise you there are some features on my camera now that although I could and have until now done without, are a real boon to making my life easier.
Architectural images have always been done with live view ... it was called a Ground Glass ;)

Personally, I don't wax poetically about the past glories ... film is a dead issue with me now because I'm lazy and indolent when it comes to the use of gear and the process afterwards.

However, Jorgen has a point ... simplicity escapes many contemporary camera designers ... probably because most people want an all in one solution including a can opener :rolleyes:

- Marc
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
I forgot to mention a built in electronic spirit level :) also a life saver for those of us (me) who keep losing theirs..

Shot this picture today at iso 6400 (didn't have a tripod), needed live view to focus as it was f22 using waterhouse stops and I was handholding. Personally I'm enjoying being able to use modern day equipment. No I don't use half the features on my camera but then they don't get in the way either.

The all in one options today are so good that they no longer offer compromises that you would assume are inherent to any 'all in one' options. If you've got a 5D3 or D800 (got both) then you have relatively small packages that can pretty much do it all, and very well, unless you have specific niche needs. If you buy one of these they they will excel not just provide, for most areas of photography. All that for about $3000 or so. Use what you need, ignore the rest but it's there for you should you ever want it without ever getting in the way if you don't. Personally I'm not complaining.
 

RVB

Member
Architectural images have always been done with live view ... it was called a Ground Glass ;)

Personally, I don't wax poetically about the past glories ... film is a dead issue with me now because I'm lazy and indolent when it comes to the use of gear and the process afterwards.

However, Jorgen has a point ... simplicity escapes many contemporary camera designers ... probably because most people want an all in one solution including a can opener :rolleyes:

- Marc
"simplicity escapes many contemporary camera designers " True Marc,and this is an area that Leica did a decent job with the S/S2..

this is a quote from Vincent Peters when asked about gear.. "Can you tell us about your material, which camera and lenses you mostly use?

I never changed my camera since I was 17. I have a Mamiya RZ medium format. I always shoot film you know. I have some clients that say “you don’t shoot digital we don’t work with you” and I’m like okay no problem. But I don’t like digital. I think the whole process did a lot of damage to the industry and there isn’t a single photographer I spoke to who didn’t agree with that. So far I get away with it. I can hardly imagine Peter Lindberg’s career in digital. Or Mario Sorrenti, the king of the room. They would never have had that quality, that vulnerability. The technique defines the art so… If there’s a digital art it’s not my art. I think it does define the expression. Digital is not just a process of capturing images. Digital is a different concept. The shoot is different. Your relation with the model is different. Anyway, I hardly know how to read an email."

He produces great work and still uses his RZ..
 
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