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Congratulations you American People

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bensonga

Well-known member
I celebrate bold, steadfast leadership in a President....
Yes, that would be Bush and Cheney (and let us not forget Rumsfeld). They were bold. They were steadfast.

They also violated fundamental principles of the American constitution.

They should have been impeached, convicted and thrown out of office long ago.

If there was any REAL justice in this world, they would be tried as war criminals for violating the Geneva conventions against torture, convicted and spend the rest of their days in prison.

They are gone, but they will not be forgotten.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
 
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ddk

Guest
I couldn't agree more. Electing Barack Obama as president, of person of mixed white/black racial heritage (who many Americans just consider to be a "black" person) is a monumental change for America and worthy of celebration. The reality of America is far different from the "white bread" view many Americans still have of our country.....and Barack Obama clearly understands and celebrates the diversity of the ethnic, religious, racial, national and political backgrounds and views that is the American people. That alone is reason to celebrate and in my view, be hopeful for the future.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
That might be something new for you Gary in Alaska but its nothing new here to us in NY. The way I see it the color of the man shouldn't make a difference either way rather its his character that we should question or celebrate!
 
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dlew308

Guest
Even with a new president, we still have the same crappy congress and the above the law Feds running a muck. Hope for change...well I hope to win the lotto ;) keep the change....


Ok I'm done else I'll rant on for days :)


:salute:
 
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ddk

Guest
If there was any REAL justice in this world, they would be tried as war criminals for violating the Geneva conventions against torture, convicted and spend the rest of their days in prison.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Please, get real!
 

bensonga

Well-known member
That might be something new for you Gary in Alaska but its nothing new here to us in NY. The way I see it the color of the man shouldn't make a difference either way rather its his character that we should question or celebrate!
Exactly my point and while YOU may have been able to look past the color of a person's skin for many years, I would say that the country as a whole has not.

For America as a whole to have reached the point were we could look beyond a person's African-American lineage and elect that person as president based upon their perceived character and abilities.....that is a monumental change in this country and reason for all of us to be proud, whether a person voted for Obama or not.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
 
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mwalker

Subscriber Member
Yes, that would be Bush and Cheney (and let us not forget Rumsfeld). They were bold. They were steadfast.

They also violated fundamental principles of the American constitution.

They should have been impeached, convicted and thrown out of office long ago.

If there was any REAL justice in this world, they would be tried as war criminals for violating the Geneva conventions against torture, convicted and spend the rest of their days in prison.

They are gone, but they will not be forgotten.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Plezzz :eek: :rolleyes: ...............Can you see Russia?
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Please, get real!
I am VERY serious....but I can see that you don't take these violations of human rights and the Geneva conventions very seriously at all. Well, I guess you would have no objection to Americans who were SUSPECTED of being subversives, terrorists, agents of the CIA etc of being tortured by foreign governments either then.

It's a slippery slope....one that I never thought our government would so openly walk down....and why so many people in the US military, Justice department etc were opposed to the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld doctrines on torture.

The reality is that Bush and Cheney will likely never be held to account. But Rumsfeld and others who participated in creating the policies that led to this are at much greater risk of arrest and prosecution. I'm quite sure they will be very careful about where they travel outside of the USA in the future.

Gary
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Yes, that would be Bush and Cheney (and let us not forget Rumsfeld). They were bold. They were steadfast.

They also violated fundamental principles of the American constitution.

They should have been impeached, convicted and thrown out of office long ago.

If there was any REAL justice in this world, they would be tried as war criminals for violating the Geneva conventions against torture, convicted and spend the rest of their days in prison.

They are gone, but they will not be forgotten.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Gary can you name any president since FDR who hasn't violate the Constitution? I can't.

If we are going to start trying war criminals, it's going to be a long docket. I assume you'll add in the North Vietnamese, most of sub-shara africa and all the usual suspects?
 

helenhill

Senior Member
Well I have to agree with Tim in his Exhuberance
AND
Gary with regard to Human Rights Violations & Geneva Convention Rules
Perhaps George & Dick should have a Taste of Guantanamo before it gets closed down....:eek:
 
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Amin

Active member
The way I see it the color of the man shouldn't make a difference either way...
That's exactly the point. We are celebrating the fact that the color of the man didn't make a difference, ie, didn't prevent him from getting elected. We are celebrating the fact that our country has caught up to the ideal which you have just endorsed.

If someone asked you two years ago whether you believed that our country was ready to elect the best presidential candidate, regardless of color, could you have honestly replied in the affirmative? I certainly didn't think our country had come that far in dealing with ethnic/cultural diversity. In fact, I still don't believe that a black person would have had a chance without a number of catastrophes: Bush/Cheney, Katrina, two wars, and near collapse of the financial system.

I believe our country has a long way to go in dealing with racial prejudice, especially in some of the states where Obama lost by a wide margin; but this election speaks for how far we have come in this respect, and that is worth celebrating.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Gary can you name any president since FDR who hasn't violate the Constitution? I can't.
You may well be right....I'm not a historian and wouldn't claim to know one way or the other, but they all take that oath of office and I think the American people have a right to expect them to uphold it. When key provisions of the Constitution are violated as openly and repeatedly as during the Bush-Cheney administration....well, you know my views.

If we are going to start trying war criminals, it's going to be a long docket. I assume you'll add in the North Vietnamese, most of sub-shara africa and all the usual suspects?
You're absolutely right, there is a long, long list of people who have violated human rights, the Geneva conventions and UN conventions against torture etc. If they had all been held to account, prosecuted, convicted and punished.....perhaps, just perhaps, rational people (whom I would think Bush, Cheney and Rumseld are) might think long and hard before committing these crimes.

I'm pretty sure that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others who developed these policies and authorized the use of torture never expected to be held to account for their crimes....and they ARE crimes. Unfortunately, some Americans seem to have a hard time with the idea that our own leaders should be held to the same standards as other leaders around the world...such as with violations by the North Vietnamese, Chinese, etc you mentioned.

As far as I'm concerned, whether it was Bush, Clinton, JFK, Ho Chi Minh or whomever doesn't matter.....none of them are above the law, especially with something as serious and fundamental as these sorts of crimes. If you don't agree, then I would say "the rule of law" really means nothing to you.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
 
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ddk

Guest
I am VERY serious....but I can see that you don't take these violations of human rights and the Geneva conventions very seriously at all. Well, I guess you would have no objection to Americans who were SUSPECTED of being subversives, terrorists, agents of the CIA etc of being tortured by foreign governments either then.

It's a slippery slope....one that I never thought our government would so openly walk down....and why so many people in the US military, Justice department etc were opposed to the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld doctrines on torture.

The reality is that Bush and Cheney will likely never be held to account. But Rumsfeld and others who participated in creating the policies that led to this are at much greater risk of arrest and prosecution. I'm quite sure they will be very careful about where they travel outside of the USA in the future.

Gary
You'd sing a different tune if you spent a little time with some of the so called human beings residing in Quantanamo. Who do you think you're dealing with here? Whatever faults you think this Bush administration had they kept this country safe for 8 years in a post 9/11 world, do you think that all is well with these terrorists and they regret their actions? Do you realize what high they were on with the success of 9/11 and how many other attempts were foiled by the people you criticize.

I tell you one thing, if Jimmy Carter can still hold his stupid head up and walk around without being shot then the Bush administration has nothing to worry about, there's the real traitor for you. You should learn some history and the truth before accusing people, don't believe everything you read in the papers against the Bush administration, we'll see what Mr. Obama is made of.
 

mwalker

Subscriber Member
Well I have to agree with Tim in his Exhuberance
AND
Gary with regard to Human Rights Violations & Geneva Convention Rules
Perhaps George & Dick should have a Taste of Guantanamo before it gets closed down....:eek:
Helen I love ya :) but I spent too much time in a country where if you don't agree with the government you go to jail and sometimes don't ever come back. We don't want to start to go down that road.

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bensonga

Well-known member
....so called human beings......
You may not be able to comprehend the implications of this....but believe it or not, the prisoners being held at Guantanamo really ARE human beings, even those who may have committed unspeakable crimes against other human beings. It's clearly a concept that is lost upon you.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
 
D

ddk

Guest
That's exactly the point. We are celebrating the fact that the color of the man didn't make a difference, ie, didn't prevent him from getting elected. We are celebrating the fact that our country has caught up to the ideal which you have just endorsed.

If someone asked you two years ago whether you believed that our country was ready to elect the best presidential candidate, regardless of color, could you have honestly replied in the affirmative?
Honestly yes, even a few years back I would have thought that Colin Powel had a good chance. I'm more surprised at how little credit we're giving the American people rather than having a person of color in office.

I certainly didn't think our country had come that far in dealing with ethnic/cultural diversity. In fact, I still don't believe that a black person would have had a chance without a number of catastrophes: Bush/Cheney, Katrina, two wars, and near collapse of the financial system.

I believe our country has a long way to go in dealing with racial prejudice, especially in some of the states where Obama lost by a wide margin; but this election speaks for how far we have come in this respect, and that is worth celebrating.
Why do you see it as only racial when people disagree with your point of view and Obama's policies, including myself. There are many things in his past that still worry me, but I had a harder time stomaching Mr. Maverick. Don't forget that George Bush won twice over other white guys, there are many of us who liked and still like him but voted against the party simply because the candidate wasn't right, the outcome could have been different if Obama was running against a better person.
 
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