Why did I do that? Back to DSLR.

[Jorgen Udvang]

Hey - don't get me wrong - Me? I prefer a rangefinder (no AF lag, no Mirror lag, no Mirror slap). . . . . . But I think that 'lag' is something that doesn't exist IF you have release priority enabled - and you can do that on a mirrorless as well (although it probably isn't enabled by default).

Try the cafe door trick one day though - it can be very enlightening. . . . and it only costs you for the glass of wine

When it comes to viewfinders and interaction with the subject and the environment around, nothing beats a rangefinder camera. For the café door trick, it's the obvious winner, particularly for those who can shoot with both eyes open. I do find the German price tags a bit inhibiting though

One camera that I have very high hopes for, if it ever appears, is the Fuji X-Pro2 with an improved hybrid viewfinder. That should be a camera that offers the advantages of all systems and then some that we haven't heard about yet. If/when I buy a mirrorless camera again, that is a very likely candidate, if it becomes as good as I anticipate and if video capabilities are dramatically improved. But I'm in no hurry. Not right now anyway.

It's a pity that Sony haven't developed a DSLR with a hybrid viewfinder. The SLT cameras are very close to open up that possibility, but it's as if they closed down the optical option somewhere along the road. Very premature if you ask me.

 

[Godfrey]

When it comes to viewfinders and interaction with the subject and the environment around, nothing beats a rangefinder camera.

I dunno.. An LCD used as viewfinder can provide much of the same feel. It's less confining than an eye-level viewfinder.

G

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay I
L put my instructor hat on. Your not missing shots because of the gear folks your missing shots because you are just not thinking ahead . Don't blame the gear once you know what it takes to get it into action that's the time you need to be thinking ahead of what will happen next given any scene. Now no question you need responsive gear. My comment is more about you than about tools. Btw a A6000 is damn fast, so I'm not so sure a DSLR is any faster per say. They all need to boot up and get to AF fast. Sure no question like a A7r maybe a little slow but if your thinking ahead of what happens next than you are just more prepared. Sometimes no amount of speed will get the shot either.

I miss a shot its on me not the gear. I don't use anything for a excuse. If I'm not looking than its my fault.

 

[Godfrey]

Can't disagree with you, Guy. But there are times when the shot to shot responsiveness, or lack of it, can get in the way. Most modern DSLRs are pretty good at that, a lot of the mirrorless cameras are still a bit behind that curve.

 

[rayyan]

Thank you Godfrey.

' responsiveness ' ( or lack of it ) describes it.

Take a shot, turn quickly to another subject away from the first. Then another in another direction.

I would, with the current state of mirroless technology , bet my dslr to give me
Significantly more keepers.

Guy, you are correct that thinking ahead and planning is crucial.
But the shots I am talking about, happen as and when they happen. I am not even talking about a child running across/towards you...tracking etc.

It is the responsiveness to unplanned, immediate happenings where the photog and his/her equipment have to get the shot. Neither one can let the other down.

Mirrorless( I use and love mine ) have still some catching up to do.
I need af nowadays. I must have it. Else I would use my Ms.

 

[Vivek]

My comment is more about you than about tools. Btw a A6000 is damn fast, so I'm not so sure a DSLR is any faster per say. They all need to boot up and get to AF fast. Sure no question like a A7r maybe a little slow but if your thinking ahead of what happens next than you are just more prepared. Sometimes no amount of speed will get the shot either.

I miss a shot its on me not the gear. I don't use anything for a excuse. If I'm not looking than its my fault.

:thumbs:

 

[rayyan]

Does anyone on this forum think that the most expensive/latest mirrorless is as responsive....shot to shot and different autofocus scenes in quick succession than the cheapest dslr.

Not talking about good enough..equal or better.

Give me an entry level dslr, I bet it would run rings around the latest and the best af mirroless system.

Why do you think dslrs are still around...lumbersome, heavy, dinosaurs from a bygone age...but they are persistent like cockroaches...surviving the onslaught of the ' technological marvel mirroless ' systems.

Dslrs will perish, one day. But news of their demise is premature currently.
And the so called smaller size myth. Tried any new telephoto lenses for your petite mirroless lately.

The mirroless do have a place, for sure. I carry one for convenience.
But I am very aware of its limitations cf my Nikon. There is no comparison.

And the only planning I do for vacations is how to get there, where to stay.
What to photograph? Heck if I know that, why should I visit the place. The thrill of seeing something new, unknown. What might come up around a corner?
Quick...react, grab a shot and move on.

Ayesha is off to Iceland in about a week. The only thing we planned for is the cold and the snow/ice. Glaciers...they don't move too fast..do they?

Which camera should she take? Even her jazzed up maxi iPhone 6 ( ? ) would be far more for that.

 

[fotografz]

Like Guy, I never blame the hammer for a bent nail.

However, I do blame myself when I select a tool that can't do my bidding. I know I am not slow in determining the decisive moment … that nano second difference between "got it" and "didn't get it". It is a deliberately cultivated instinct coupled with hard earned skill.

While "anticipation" is a key element in "getting it", it isn't the only element contributing to capturing decisive moments on regular basis (as opposed to by accident). No amount of anticipation will guarantee the capture of a fleeting expression, or a sudden unexpected development.

In that respect a bullet passing through a balloon, and a sly twinkle in the eye have a lot in common … they both require the right tool to react on an immediate basis.

In my experience to date the latter is best served by a rangefinder … followed by the swifter crop of DSLRs … the single shot black out of a viewfinder on a standard Pro DSLR capable of 5 to 8 FPS is faster than the twinkle of an eye. But that is irrelevant anyway … it is the lag time from pressing the shutter button and the camera taking the shot that is at issue.

The mirror-less/EVF cameras lag in that department, and that includes the SLTs … my A900 was more responsive from "press-to-take" than my current A99 … and it has shown up in ever so slightly missed decisive moments … and in that case "every so slightly" might as well be "missed by a mile" :facesmack:

- Marc

(Addendum: BTW, I agree with Jono that the Mirror-less camera would seem to have the potential to be more instantaneous, (electronic verses mechanical) … and when they get there, I'll be the first in line for that breakthrough).

 

[Vivek]

iPhone 6 is a genial tool. While buying one, I spotted this (how could anyone miss it?). 700 Euros given away happily for the basic version.

Sony A7r, Color Yashinon 40/1.7

 

[MGrayson]

Tap to focus and capture on the LCD of an E-M5 is much faster than focus-recompose-capture on any DSLR. But that doesn't mean it's better for most situations.

It's no surprise that everyone commenting in this thread finds a particular system best suited for how they shoot, and it's usually the system they have used longest.

I'm not a total mirrorless advocate - my 9 year old Canon is still the best tool *for me* to capture action. But I like what the latest cameras make available (Leica glass with IBIS, focus assist, and good high ISO - superb high ISO if you're willing to give up somewhere else, sharp smallish AF lenses), so it's worthwhile trying to learn to use them. But if a new camera isn't as natural and doesn't have the success rate of a system I've used for a decade, I don't see that as even needing a comment. Anything else would be cause for celebration, indeed!

Best,

Matt

 

[Vivek]

But if a new camera isn't as natural and doesn't have the success rate of a system I've used for a decade, I don't see that as even needing a comment

Well said!

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
Sony A7r, Yashinon 40/1.7, The Hague

Exactly captured what I intended.

 

[fotografz]

Tap to focus and capture on the LCD of an E-M5 is much faster than focus-recompose-capture on any DSLR. But that doesn't mean it's better for most situations.

It's no surprise that everyone commenting in this thread finds a particular system best suited for how they shoot, and it's usually the system they have used longest.

I'm not a total mirrorless advocate - my 9 year old Canon is still the best tool *for me* to capture action. But I like what the latest cameras make available (Leica glass with IBIS, focus assist, and good high ISO - superb high ISO if you're willing to give up somewhere else, sharp smallish AF lenses), so it's worthwhile trying to learn to use them. But if a new camera isn't as natural and doesn't have the success rate of a system I've used for a decade, I don't see that as even needing a comment. Anything else would be cause for celebration, indeed!

Best,

Matt

I'd agree that giving up something to gain something else is a valid reason to use one type of tool over something else.

However, that isn't the issue being discussed … IF press-to-shoot time responsive is the something you do not want to give up. Tapping a LCD screen on a crop frame camera to focus, and then shooting better be coupled with steady arm's length skill, or a very high shutter speed.

There is absolutely nothing new about shooting with a SLT verses a DSLR except the SLT introduces lag from press to shoot … same for the Sony A series cameras … I can't train myself or learn how to compensate for "press to shoot lag" when it is a sudden fleeting expression I wanted to capture … no matter how well I anticipate, how fast my reflexes may be, or how familiar I may be with my A99. My Leica rangefinder consistently murders the A99 in that part of the "decisive moment" department.

BTW, there were some DSLRs which had that same sort of lag in past. I didn't count on them either.

- Marc

 

[fotografz]

Well said!

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
Sony A7r, Yashinon 40/1.7, The Hague

Exactly captured what I intended.

Proves nothing.

We don't know where the subject was when you actually pressed the shutter … in this case anticipation was all that was needed, similar to shooting a run-way model or a bride coming down the aisle … easy to pre-visualize, pre-focus and even intuitively factor in a nano bit of lag. Could be done with any camera in skilled hands.

What if the bottom of her bag suddenly ripped and the contents poured out? That would be an unexpected decisive moment added to the already anticipated focus and framing … requiring both quick human reflexes and very fast capture responsiveness from the tool. I'd place better odds on a Rangefinder or good DSLR over a mirror-less in that case every time.

- Marc

 

[rayyan]

At the Apple Store in Amsterdam, a few minutes ago, I checked the price of this
contraption that my wife has...iPhone 6 ( ? ).

It was priced at Euros 999.00

Happily given. Being happily used. Seems it is called an iPhone 6 Plus. Heck I have a Nokia. They bought me an iPhone ( ? ). I use only 15 numbers. 5 for the family, 10 for my friends. Others I don't bother to answer.

 

[rayyan]

Decisive moments, planned and anticipated moments?

I decide, and when my cam is responsive enough everything falls into place.

Exactly like I wanted it.

Waiting for something to happen. No. I prefer to make it happen. Me and my cam.

 

[Vivek]

Proves nothing.

We don't know where the subject was when you actually pressed the shutter … in this case anticipation was all that was needed, similar to shooting a run-way model or a bride coming down the aisle … easy to pre-visualize, pre-focus and even intuitively factor in a nano bit of lag. Could be done with any camera in skilled hands.

At the very least one could figure out this was a pedestrian crossing. This is a very special area in the Hague. This also is the only area where there has been an "IS" black flag march in the whole of Europe.

 

[rayyan]

I am going to sit at a busy pedestrian crossing for a an hour. I hope to be able to photograph some pedestrians.

See..planning, anticipation and the decisive moment of pedestrians crossing the street or just waiting to cross the street.

Take care.

Proves nothing.

....
What if the bottom of her bag suddenly ripped and the contents poured out? That would be an unexpected decisive moment added to the already anticipated focus and framing … requiring both quick human reflexes and very fast capture responsiveness from the tool. I'd place better odds on a Rangefinder or good DSLR over a mirror-less in that case every time.

- Marc

 

[MGrayson]

Decisive moments, planned and anticipated moments?

I decide, and when my cam is responsive enough everything falls into place.

Exactly like I wanted it.

Waiting for something to happen. No. I prefer to make it happen. Me and my cam.

Ray, that's beautiful, but the camera did not take that picture.

You don't have anything to prove. If you say "I don't feel a synergy with this camera." Fine. Out it goes. If you and Marc shoot the same way, you may agree which cameras are keepers and which go back. I'm certainly not arguing that point with either of you. I'm keeping my DSLR, too.

The only point I'm trying to make is that the new technology has weird and unfamiliar abilities that might - with time and practice - allow surprisingly successful results. Key word "might". I mention the E-M5 because it does allow for some unusual street captures, especially for someone unfamiliar and uncomfortable with that medium. Should it replace the workflow of successful professionals? Hell no! Could someone starting out with it master the technology over a few years? We'll see.

Best,

Matt

 

[Vivek]

What if the bottom of her bag suddenly ripped and the contents poured out? That would be an unexpected decisive moment added to the already anticipated focus and framing … requiring both quick human reflexes and very fast capture responsiveness from the tool. I'd place better odds on a Rangefinder or good DSLR over a mirror-less in that case every time.

- Marc

The next frame with the kid trying to tear away from the mom. The A7r was enough for me.

(I was warned many times for going around with a DSLR years ago in this very area)

 

[rayyan]

Matt.

Point well stated and well taken. Thanks.

Season's greetings to you, yours and all those that celebrate this Holy season.

Ray, that's beautiful, but the camera did not take that picture.

You don't have anything to prove. If you say "I don't feel a synergy with this camera." Fine. Out it goes. If you and Marc shoot the same way, you may agree which cameras are keepers and which go back. I'm certainly not arguing that point with either of you. I'm keeping my DSLR, too.

The only point I'm trying to make is that the new technology has weird and unfamiliar abilities that might - with time and practice - allow surprisingly successful results. Key word "might". I mention the E-M5 because it does allow for some unusual street captures, especially for someone unfamiliar and uncomfortable with that medium. Should it replace the workflow of successful professionals? Hell no! Could someone starting out with it master the technology over a few years? We'll see.

Best,

Matt