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Thread: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

  1. #1
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    (I write as a GetDPI citizen. I have no affiliation with the site, and do not represent Guy or Jack in this.)

    I just sold an M8 on the Buy and Sell section, and it cost me nothing. I've noticed recently that there are some "members" here whose only involvement is in the selling of gear. These two things made me wonder whether there might be some way to reimburse GetDPI for the buy and sell opportunity the site provides. I know that this is a community and that selling to others here helps keep it so, but there are costs in money and time in maintaining that community, and I wonder whether there is some tangible way for us to pay back.

    So, what do you think?

    A small* payment per ad?

    A small payment on completed sales?

    A "tip jar" link like that used on some websites to pay for a free service? (Carbon Copy Cloner has one of those.)

    Some other solution?

    Or nothing; if it ain't broke etc.


    * See, the "small" part proves I'm not a shill for management.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Interesting idea but... then one might as well sell on ebay where one can reach a much wider audience.

    What I object to (and never do with my own ads) is the paypal percentage add on. Just price your item accordingly. If you were selling on ebay, not only would you have to eat the paypal fee, but also the listing cost and a percentage on the final selling price, which can add up to a lot.

    But if Guy and Jack need it maybe a small fee per listing ala RFF and LUF could be in order.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Perhaps require a minimum number of posts before offering items for sale.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    The OPF forum deletes B&S posts from anyone who doesn't contribute elsewhere on the site. They're pretty strict about it. It's not a bad idea.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    I treat this place as a combination of family, friends, home, small town and whatnot. I agree in part with the idea of doing "something" for/with Buy and Sell. There's just a great deal of information on this site as well as a great bunch of folks willing to share. Then there's the idea of some people whose sole purpose of joining was to either buy or sell things and either have never posted outside of the B&S or so very rarely do it.

    That said - who does it hurt? If our members have something to sell and do it here to a lurking member who is hurt? Likewise if a lurking member is selling something the more active members have the option of buying. In either case the only potential person hurt is the lurker as we may not know or trust them enough without having that person jump through a couple hoops.

    Reminds me of the old saying - "If it an't broke don't fix it" I think only Jack or Guy can truly answer this question.

    Just my 2cents worth...

    Don
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  6. #6
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Certainly something we have went back and forth on and all of everyones points have come up in those conversations. Don does make a good point it really does not hurt anyone. But right now money is money and honestly anything anyone wants to donate does help. What we forget is this site is generously being served by our dear friend Andy Drexler and all of his gear and such for the HUGE servers this forum has. We do have thoughts of banners and such to help feed the forum and this forum is also the home of the workshops that Jack and I produce. Honestly we both want more folks taking advantage of these amazing teaching workshops. We have not done any testimonials on them since the very beginning but ask any workshop member what they think of them and I am sure they would rave about them. You do learn and you do have a good time. Seriously if i had it my way as far as making a living i would quit commercial photography so fast it would make your head spin if I could survive on just teaching. I love it and i am burned out on clients and the crap market right now. Okay maybe that was being too honest but that's me I just don't hold back on comments often and my feelings. If anyone feels that the B&S forum has served them well which it has for many and a very popular place on this forum, you can always send whatever you feel like to the paypal account [email protected]

    But please don't ever feel obligated to do so this is a free site and having great members is actually more important to us and the less moderation of great members we have than it is great for us as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Your post is why I really like it here. I've been on photo forums for years--and I know you and Jack from various places and reputation. I only wish I could swing doing one of your workshops--maybe when the economy stabilizes.

    Diane

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Thanks Diane i am sure one will be around when you are ready to take advantage of one. Personally I think they are a blast and to meet the other members in a nice group atmosphere is really special and some great friendships have come out of them. I know some folks that attend almost all of them don't need to be there so much to learn but be there to have fun with there friends. To me you can't beat that with a stick. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Well, we could just require a 15% discount to Jack and Guy on all items listed for sale, but I don't think the respective wives would appreciate the added temptation...


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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    "Maybe when the economy stabilizes," or at least when Guy stabilizes.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Maybe when the economy stabilizes," or at least when Guy stabilizes.


    So, do we have to start looking for the 'green shoots of Guy' as well

    Like Diane, I'd love to come on a workshop, but for me it's time and distance which is the real barrier.

    Just this guy you know

  12. #12
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    The B&S section of this great forum continues to be one of the most useful sections of its kind anywhere. As I recall, Guy and Jack started this offering as a way to offer a platform for folks to get good gear, get good advice, and avoid much of the politicking and stuff seen on some of the other forums. When combined with the generous advice and suggestions from the active members, it makes this a great place to learn and share information, and also find or sell gear. With respect to supporting this forum, it comes from time and knowledge shared, and from engaging discussions. From what I have seen and heard, the workshops are not only a lot of fun, but offer even more camaraderie and knowledge exchange. I do wish there were a few more, scattered in places that some folks could get to more easily, but all of that takes time, money, organization, planning, etc.

    With respect to the B&S section, I agree with Charles above....this notion of tacking on the PayPal fee is ridiculous. Sellers should either build it into the sales price or suck it up as part of the transaction. Shipping is a different thing, but tacking on that PayPal fee just seems a bit much....build it in or absorb it, sellers....please.

    Sorry for the morning rant....need another cup of espresso or something ;-)

    LJ

  13. #13
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Obviously there are costs in selling and buying and folks can do what they feel is needed. More important is buying and selling to folks you know and like. I sold my P25+ and I DID want it to go to someone I know and like and to me that is a bonus. There are no restrictions here on Paypal fee's if you charge them or not . E-bay obviously does not allow it but that is e-bay which for me is one of the last places I look for gear. Too me it is a risk and a leap of faith that don't always work out.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Guy,
    Heartily agree. Not suggesting folks NOT charge what they think they should, but build that into the asking price, rather than list it as some sort of after-deal charge of some sort. I also agree that it is nice to sell to and buy from folks with whom you can build some connections and share things. This place is NOT eBay...and we can all be thankful for that ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    I don't build it into the price because I've done a bunch of non paypal transactions. Yes, I could simply deduct it but hate getting into the haggle on price game.

  16. #16
    nei1
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    If you limit everyone to one item every 3 months or whatever is thought appropriate then I think the professionals would go elsewear.
    It would be the decent thing for those who make part of their living from buying and selling gear to be a little more upfront about it if they want to be trusted and the little echos saying what a bargain price etc should be shut up,I mean its just embarassing to read.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    While all in all some very good thoughts here I hope no change will come or is needed.

    That said there's nothing wrong with a tip jar.
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    I guess, in a way, there is a "tip jar:" according to Mr. Mancuso, "you can always send whatever you feel like to the paypal account [email protected]."

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    IMO, the B/S section is a recruitment tool of great value to the community at large. People may come initially because of the reputation of the folks here, led by Jack and Guy ... and the level of gear being offered ... but it's also one hell of a site, and once you come here for what-ever-the reason it's hard to not stay and participate.

    As far as building in PayPal fees, IMO that is a payment option of the buyer not the seller. A buyer can pay any number of ways ... PayPal being just one of them. Since Paypal e-check is just $5. the buyer can exercise that option rather than the heafty fee for an immediate varified tranfer of funds. Just because the buyer is impatient and "wants it now!" doesn't mean the seller has to pay 3 or 4% for their impatience.

    I've even done business with members here on the trust system ... you get a pretty good feel for folks and their character over a year and come to trust them ... then with mutual trust and endorsments from other members we can avoid fees altogether.

    IMO.

    -Marc

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    I think the best contribution members can make to support this site is to continue making the fabulous, informative, civil, educational, courteous, and thoughtful posts in the friendly tone that has set this site apart from so many others and distinguished it as simply the best. If time and resources allow it, then sign up for a workshop - this will most probably benefit the site as well as expanding your knowledge and experience.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    I think the best contribution members can make to support this site is to continue making the fabulous, informative, civil, educational, courteous, and thoughtful posts in the friendly tone that has set this site apart from so many others and distinguished it as simply the best. If time and resources allow it, then sign up for a workshop - this will most probably benefit the site as well as expanding your knowledge and experience.
    Now that should be the new site mantra.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Guy stabilize? On equipment ? Jack stabilize ? On equipment? never gonna happen not in this fast changing world. LOL I sold my contax system to get a LIeca M8 Now I have both. Waiting for the day I can get a digital back for it. I hear what Guy says I wish I never had to shoot another photo for money again but I do not teach and my personal work will never make me money. Understand this Bruce Davidson and many of the personal photojournalists made there money doing commercial work. I hope this site continues a free buy and sell or for those that have at least 50 postings on other parts of the forums. David

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    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    [...]We do have thoughts of banners and such to help feed the forum and this forum is also the home of the workshops that Jack and I produce. Honestly we both want more folks taking advantage of these amazing teaching workshops. [...]
    But please don't ever feel obligated to do so this is a free site and having great members is actually more important to us and the less moderation of great members we have than it is great for us as well.
    +3 on the workshops! (I'd normally say +1, but the fact is I've been to three of them and they are worth it!)

  24. #24
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Buy/Sell Section be Free?

    Thanks Chris . The B&S will stay free but if you feel the need. There is the tip jar. Better yet I have two spots open for the June 17 workshop. Come and learn something and get a few laughs to boots.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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