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Time pays $30 for Magazine Cover

dseelig

Member
If bitching about the current practices makes potential pros shy away from these micro stock agencies and get a clue about how to be a photographer, then it is worth it. It is worth my time to help the business I am in. David
www.davidseelig.com
 

fultonpics

New member
interesting thread. digital allowed soooo many 'photographers' into the business. further, editorial has not been a great area to make money for sometime. for instance, wireimage (now owned by getty) would recruit anyone at local colleges to shoot ncaa football, local concerts etc. some of those shooters got to do NFL, PGA and so on as a bonus. the money was lame (since they only paid on sales/collections which were unlikely since so many shooters contributed) unless you became a 'contractor' for them. well those days are gone and getty sucked wireimage and others up. you can 'contribute' to getty and get the same deal, but you still only get half of the sale and guess what: the price getty gets has dropped like a rock. many 'news' and editorial sites pay a monthly subscription to the so called wire services and the photographers get a split based on their percentage of the total sold. I still contribute to several 'agencies' but do so as an adjunct to revenue. I can tell you my 10,000+ images on getty do not generate much every month; unlike they did just a few years ago.

so the money is in weddings and other areas of commercial photography that are more difficult for the masses to get into. so be it.

btw, i recently reviewed a contract for biz week or forbes and i think it was $2500 for a cover -- or was it $1500. they still covered 'expenses' which made it more viable, but i understand they are considering revising this.
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
It's far too late for this discussion. The train left the station years ago, and it started with royalty free, continued with digital cameras and ultimately the internet. Time paid $120 (not $30, that was the photographer's cut) for the photo because that's the current market value. If they'd been shopping around a bit, they could probably have had it cheaper. iStock is expensive by microstock standards, but pays the lowest commission to the photographer (20% at the lowest).

But look at it from another angle:
Let's say that there are 10,000 travel agencies in this world, and there probably are. Most of them have web sites, customer newsletters, brochures etc. Before microstock, did they buy images at Getty? No way. Far too expensive. They found a brochure that they picked up at some destination and copied whatever they needed. No chance of getting caught, so why worry?

Now, they buy microstock, and they buy a lot. Multiply that with any other kind of business that you can think of. I probably have 3-400 travel photos of good quality on Alamy and a similar quantity of a slightly inferior artistic quality with the microstock agencies (Technical quality is mostly better, that's the nature of the beast. When you sell photos for 10 dollars a piece, you can't afford complaints.). Sales of travel images at Alamy the last year = 0 (that's zero). Microstock sales: 2-10 images per day (travel images alone). As a rule of thumb, I make as much money on microstock per month as I do on Alamy per year. If microstock didn't exist, my income from traditional stock would probably have been higher, but not 12 times higher, not even close.

Yes, I know; the value of my images is diluted and God-knows-what, but if you ask me what's good for the photographer: Money is what's good for the photographer, to pay the rent, the food, the beer and a lens now and then. Microstock photography is as interesting as going to the dentist, and the photos that I post on these forum wouldn't even be accepted (nor would I sell them as microstock), but anything that enters through the door of my apartment that may sell as microstock, takes a detour via the permanent tabletop studio in my kitchen, just in case. 10 minutes photography and 10 minutes post processing, and off it goes. Going to a nice temple that is being photographed 7,568 times per day, 365 days a year? Perfect for microstock too.

It would be nice if magazines like Time paid a few thousand dollars for every photo they used on the front page, but photos like the coins in the jar have become commodities, and commodities sell for what the market is willing to pay. Do you think Time would accept to pay more for the coffee or the paper clips in their offices than Duluth News Tribune does? Hardly.

Most of those who are successful with microstock sales (I'm not) are doing it full time, and some of them have studios with several employees. They probably make more money than most of those complaining that microstock is taking away their business. I know a couple of photographers who retired years ago on their stock portfolio. Too bad for them, but dreams are dreams and reality is reality. They are back working now.

Edit: Do I like microstock? Not at all. I'm as much in favour of it as swine flu, but like swine flu, it's here and it won't go away. And next year, there's another flu. We can choose to live with it, or we can dig our heads deep, deep into the sand.
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
Everyone wants the benefits of open competition - as long as they arent affected....

or to put things in another way..

I havent seen a professional photographers work I couldn't shoot - if I wanted to earn peanuts I would.

or to put things another way

many years ago I decided I wanted a career where what I earned was purely based on open a free competition in the most competitive market that one can play in..in a global market with low barriers to entry ie I went for the most difficult job one could imagine to succeed in - that way I have never relied on anyone except myself and never kidded myself about the odds being stacked against me - the day I stopped making money trading against other animals who want me dead is the day I am on the scrap heap - and I better have some savings to fall back on....at least I have never had any illusions about the inevitability of change or the constant battle for survival..

Also understand that you may feel that you are making yourself feel good calling yourself a 'professional' - but the old fashioned world I grew up in reserved the term professional for very few occupations - most of which are callings and most of which involve enormous personal sacrifice for public good..

and finally - who reads TIME magazine anyway - it is a total rag these days and yeah most professional photographer wanna bees think it is just great to have a photo published on a cover of a magazine - they add to their resume - and on to their web sites - like it means something..so to them TIME actually paid $30 for something they would have handed over for free.

as if charging $1000 or $5000 would have made any difference . How many wanna bees versus how much demand for this stuff? Thats all you need to know.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Everyone wants the benefits of open competition - as long as they arent affected....

or to put things in another way..

I havent seen a professional photographers work I couldn't shoot - if I wanted to earn peanuts I would.

or to put things another way

many years ago I decided I wanted a career where what I earned was purely based on open a free competition in the most competitive market that one can play in..in a global market with low barriers to entry ie I went for the most difficult job one could imagine to succeed in - that way I have never relied on anyone except myself and never kidded myself about the odds being stacked against me - the day I stopped making money trading against other animals who want me dead is the day I am on the scrap heap - and I better have some savings to fall back on....at least I have never had any illusions about the inevitability of change or the constant battle for survival..

Also understand that you may feel that you are making yourself feel good calling yourself a 'professional' - but the old fashioned world I grew up in reserved the term professional for very few occupations - most of which are callings and most of which involve enormous personal sacrifice for public good..

and finally - who reads TIME magazine anyway - it is a total rag these days and yeah most professional photographer wanna bees think it is just great to have a photo published on a cover of a magazine - they add to their resume - and on to their web sites - like it means something..so to them TIME actually paid $30 for something they would have handed over for free.

as if charging $1000 or $5000 would have made any difference . How many wanna bees versus how much demand for this stuff? Thats all you need to know.
Peter, I think the designation "professional" is more tied to "making a living" verses a commentary on the "quality of work." Most certainly, there are non-professional photographers that are as good as anyone out there, Pro or not ... they just don't make their living at it.

I also wouldn't mix up editorial type photographers with all professional photographers ... editorial is paying less because the print industry is fast disappearing ... and as you say, the wannabes have flooded that shrinking market. Supply verses demand, pure and simple.

Like wise, "iReporters" with cell phones and pocket-rocket video cams are sucking the news photographer dry. The photo essay types of in-depth news reportage that requires dedication and insight is going the way of the Dodo because the general public has the attention span of a Ferret on crack.

Stock and what-not tends to be generic in nature in an attempt to have the broadest content appeal to garner enough sales volume over time. Generic is a LOT easier to do than being specifically creative concerning a given idea or product attribute. So, more and more shooters do it because it's easy to do = flooded market.

This profession or what-ever we want to call it (craft/art/past-time/etc.) ebbs and flows ... and changes. TV killed off a ton of still photo studios in the early 90s ... then TV media became way more expensive and vertical print came into it's own ... and those photographers left standing made a killing.

After this "weeding out" it'll be interesting to see what's next. There is always a "what's next" ... the trick is to figure out what it is ... and be there. :)
 
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