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Photography, Art and Writing (a thinking thread)

Maggie O

Active member
I figured we could use a general art and philosophy of art thread.

I found a great quote and needed a good place to post it, so I made this thread. What's the quote? Here:

"The most useful criticism in any art is new work done with the same tools." (John Szarkowski)

I've found that much of my best work, in both photography and music, has come from reacting to the work of others. You?
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
All art is a reaction to past art even if past is only six months ago.

One of the areas which I think the vast majority of photographers lack is a strong grounding in art history, critical theory and aesthetic theory as they apply to both photography and art in general.

I find in my work many reflections of themes and techinques drawn for both photographers and artists.

I've found several work which have become important in my evolution of photography.

On Photography by Susan Sontag

Camera Lucida - Roland Barthes

Photography Theory
- ed. James Elkins

Another Way of Telling by John Berger
 

Maggie O

Active member
Well said, John.

IMO, every photographer should have a copy of Gardner's Art Through The Ages, the standard art history textbook.

Getting back to the quote, here's something to consider- the next time you find yourself about to write something about someone else's photography, stop yourself, pick up a camera and go make some photographs instead. You know, as an exercise or something.

Another great quote, this time from Woody Allen:

Talent is doing it every day.

Do you take or make photographs every day? I do. Most of them are C-R-A-P, but I'll be damned if I don't learn a little something each time. Also, being tied down to my house most days, it forces me to look at the familiar and to draw out interest from the mundane- I can't fall back of the inherent allure of the novel and exotic. I'm not saying that my daily photos are worth anything to anyone else, but they've come to be worth more to me than I might have initially thought.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
On the theme of reacting to the work of others was my reaction to Wim Wender's "Written in the West." It presented me with a new way of looking Texas's building and put me on a new path for depicting Texas. Photographs from "Written in the West."

Others artists I'm constantly reacting to are Monet and Van Gogh. Light, Light.....
 

Maggie O

Active member
I've changed my mind. My photos are rubbish. That's what I think. I should give my M8 to a real artist, like Cam, who could make it sing, instead of being a glorified Instamatic.

I guess that's the downside of doing it everyday. You quickly come to understand just how crap you can be.
 

LJL

New member
Ah, but if you have enough belief in what you saw or thought you saw when you first captured the image, it may be worth going back to and reviewing it through a different set of appreciation lenses ;-) I find myself going back to those "crap" shots that I have not completely discarded, and sometimes finding a new crop, a new enhancement, etc., can turn things interesting again.

Going along with what you and John have commented on, I would add that if you have looked at a lot of different art and had some appreciation for it, whether you fully understood it or not, it has equipped you to become more experimental in photography....you just need to develop some trust in your "eye" and why you may have or are pressing the shutter.

LJ
 

helenhill

Senior Member
Well Magpie
I admire your WORK
You have a keen eye,good sense of color (even in Blk & White)
and your PICTURES Tell a Story
Your Gifted babe......
Maybe having a bi polar moment!;)
Though it would be nice to give Cam the M8
Cheers! helen:D
 
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Maggie O

Active member
Thank you, Helen!

I think that more than anything else, I'm feeling frustrated and feel like I've exhausted my immediate surroundings as a subject. Maybe that's the hazard of taking photos everyday? Or maybe I'm looking for a "voice" or a "vision" in my work? One of the things I admire about Mitch (who comes most immediately to mind since there's been an in-depth discussion of his work in another thread) is that he has found his "voice" in his work.

Lately, I feel like I'm just thrashing around, without focus (or maybe I'm just backfocusing a bit) and my practice has become an empty set of motions to go through. I'm not real clear on this yet, but it reminds me of a pianist I knew in art school who quit playing music because he could make his fingers go where they needed to be but his spirit couldn't follow. I think he's a filmmaker now.

I'm trying to make sense, thanks for bearing with me.

Oh, and if I had the money, I'd buy everyone an M8, starting with Cam, because she wants one and would she would TOTALLY rock it.
 

Terry

New member
Thank you, Helen!

I think that more than anything else, I'm feeling frustrated and feel like I've exhausted my immediate surroundings as a subject. Maybe that's the hazard of taking photos everyday? Or maybe I'm looking for a "voice" or a "vision" in my work? One of the things I admire about Mitch (who comes most immediately to mind since there's been an in-depth discussion of his work in another thread) is that he has found his "voice" in his work.

Lately, I feel like I'm just thrashing around, without focus (or maybe I'm just backfocusing a bit) and my practice has become an empty set of motions to go through. I'm not real clear on this yet, but it reminds me of a pianist I knew in art school who quit playing music because he could make his fingers go where they needed to be but his spirit couldn't follow. I think he's a filmmaker now.

I'm trying to make sense, thanks for bearing with me.

Oh, and if I had the money, I'd buy everyone an M8, starting with Cam, because she wants one and would she would TOTALLY rock it.
So, why not think up a topic each day that you go out and shoot and execute on that. It could be a color, number, reflections, one day it was pouring in NY and I took pictures of people with their umbrellas to see if the person and the umbrella (pattern/color) seemed to match their personality/look. The number of different themes you can find is limitless and it can be a lot of fun.
 

Maggie O

Active member
Well, that's a lot easier to do in New York City or San Francisco than it is in Lincoln, NE.

Have I mentioned I hate it here?

But yeah, that is an excellent idea.
 

Terry

New member
Hey, I have a book that talks about exploring an object and taking different shots of it with different angles shadows etc. In this exercise you are to take more than 100 shots. They have 150 shots of a fork and it is really quite a cool series.
 
M

Mitch Alland

Guest
...I think that more than anything else, I'm feeling frustrated and feel like I've exhausted my immediate surroundings as a subject. Maybe that's the hazard of taking photos everyday? Or maybe I'm looking for a "voice" or a "vision" in my work? One of the things I admire about Mitch (who comes most immediately to mind since there's been an in-depth discussion of his work in another thread) is that he has found his "voice" in his work.

Lately, I feel like I'm just thrashing around, without focus (or maybe I'm just backfocusing a bit) and my practice has become an empty set of motions to go through. I'm not real clear on this yet, but it reminds me of a pianist I knew in art school who quit playing music because he could make his fingers go where they needed to be but his spirit couldn't follow. I think he's a filmmaker now.

I'm trying to make sense, thanks for bearing with me.

Oh, and if I had the money, I'd buy everyone an M8, starting with Cam, because she wants one and would she would TOTALLY rock it.
Maggie, Imants Krumins, who's a great artist that unfortunately got himself banned here, said that taking good pictures in Bangkok is like shooting fish in a barrel. Of course he has a point in that places that have a denseness of life and variety of visual impact like Bangkok and Tokyo help to create a type of photography. In Japan, there are scads of "Tokyo photographers" that are bound to be there in a city of 30 million people where there is such a variety of life. Take Bangkok versus Singapore: to me it's just easier to find visually interesting subjects here than in Singapore, where, for example, the old Chinese shophouses, where people live on the second floor, have been gentrified and preserved as tourist reserves — no tropical squalor there. So, any vibrant city tends to create it's own photography.

But, it seems to me, that is not all there is to it. In Paris last year I saw the great retrospective Lee Friedlander exhibiton: what struck me were his shots of famous scenes in the US West, all of which had been photographed by Anselm Adams — it was amazing to me how Friedlander's compositons in these photographs were so much more complex and interesting than those of Adams, which goes to show that even with a type photography that one thinks may have been done to death, a new approach and a new interpretation can be found. And some of Firedlander's books can be a good antidote to the malaise you're referring to Maggie: when he had a knee operation a few years back and was housebound for some six months he produced Stems, a book of B&W photographs of flower stems seen through vases and glass shot of the flower vases his wife placed in his room; his book on the Sonora desert, which has pictures of branches and twigs, all seemingly similar, but which as you go from page to page, become a "where's Waldo" hunt in which you begin to see the varied compositional forms of each pictures; or Stick and Stone, his book on urban America seen through the unpromising visual garbage — traffic signs and chainlink fences — that litter the cities but which he reveals in a fascinating way as a major element of the landscape that we always look past and don't see for its own type of beauty. Yes, looking at these Friedlander books can get you out of your funk. Have a go at it.

Yes, Cam, whom I had lunch with in Paris, is great; but I doubt that she really needs the M8, as she has enough ideas to wear out her GRD and GRD2!

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Well, that's a lot easier to do in New York City or San Francisco than it is in Lincoln, NE.

Have I mentioned I hate it here?

But yeah, that is an excellent idea.
Come on Maggie, there's just as much to photograph Lincoln and it's just as easy as NYC or SF.

There are images every where and there are people everywhere. I'm in a town of 3500 people in Central Texas and don't lack for subjects.

Take a look here
all most all in a 100 mile radius of my house and many in six blocks.

It's as Lisette Model said, "New images surround us everywhere. They are invisible only because of sterile routine convention and fear."

Get out shoot, make mistakes, make beauty...
 

helenhill

Senior Member
Maggie
How bout if you start a new thread with a daily photo of
'All I HATE IN LINCOLN NEBRASKA'

The Camera is the Greatest Tool of an Anthropologist besides a Tape Recorder
and knowing your keen eye & composition skill you can turn it into Art.
All the Best ! helen
 

cam

Active member
Maggie, have i asked you to marry me recently???

your pictures are lovely and expressive! i have even more respect than ever after being cooped up in the house with my family for two weeks and going mad with the limited subject matter. two weeks and i was tearing my hair out. yet you live with this and are making art with it. every day a masterpiece? maybe not. but you're able to capture the moment, the feelings, the thoughts in such an intimate way. i feel i know your family intimately.... there are so many gems in there! i think you're just too close to see it right now. it's hard to be objective when you're on top of your subject matter, i know. but you're good. you're really really good!!!

and Mitch is right, i'm still playing out my GRDs and have a long way to go. you did make me teary with your sentiment, though (i'm hormonal, but still...), thank you! that M8 deserves to stay in your capable hands! some place as vast as Nebraska needs it. and you'll feel better come spring!

i plan on doing an exercise myself that would probably suit your temperament as well: put music that you love on your ipod and go out and shoot. the two variations of this exercise are to either put one song on repeat and play it until you get a photo that sums up that song for you and satisfies you and/or put multiple songs on and try to get a few shots per song.

i think you, like me right now, are thinking too much. you need to turn off the brain and go with your gut and heart and eye. there's nothing that can do this like music! (none of your own is allowed as that will switch your brain back on. go with all time favourites or stuff that just suits your mood. if you've got the blues right now, play blues, and shoot blues. embrace it. embrace yourself. you'll come around again to knowing how good you really are.)
 

helenhill

Senior Member
I'll go to bed soooon .... but had to tell you DEAR MAGGIE
your m8 shots of your Mum & Niece /ala potato chips scenerio was BRILLIANT!!
Your a Concept Girl and maybe that where your niche is
'Every Picture Tells A Story'
toodles - helen
 

Maggie O

Active member
Thank you all for the great responses- I'll need a bit of time to chew on them to properly respond- but there's a ton of great ideas and encouragement in this thread and I am very, very grateful to y'all!
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
Maggie,
I agree with Cam, Mitch, Helen, Johnathan. I love your work. The gloves and the potato chip series come to mind right now. I think Cam has an excellent idea for a music diva; maybe you can tailor that to your style.
I remember when you were getting ready to buy your M8 and how excited you were. I hope that you can recapture that excitement again.
 

Maggie O

Active member
And some of Firedlander's books can be a good antidote to the malaise you're referring to Maggie: when he had a knee operation a few years back and was housebound for some six months he produced Stems, a book of B&W photographs of flower stems seen through vases and glass shot of the flower vases his wife placed in his room; his book on the Sonora desert, which has pictures of branches and twigs, all seemingly similar, but which as you go from page to page, become a "where's Waldo" hunt in which you begin to see the varied compositional forms of each pictures; or Stick and Stone, his book on urban America seen through the unpromising visual garbage — traffic signs and chainlink fences — that litter the cities but which he reveals in a fascinating way as a major element of the landscape that we always look past and don't see for its own type of beauty. Yes, looking at these Friedlander books can get you out of your funk. Have a go at it.
Tomorrow, I'm gabbing my M8 and heading to the library to do just that, Mitch. That's a fantastic idea. And I think your choice of malaise is a spot-on description.
 
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