Running out

[Ranger 9]

I agree and have the same question. My response above was to what I had thought was a question about aesthetic improvement.

My original intent was to talk about aesthetic improvement. However, since photography is a technology-based art form, it's hard to avoid a certain amount of spillover.

In general I think that you're leading yourself astray if you assume that improving your technology (i.e. buying more stuff) will improve your aesthetic results -- even though consumerist photo-culture is based on that exact assumption.

However, it's very legitimate to note, as someone did earlier, that sometimes having the right technology makes it possible to realize pictures that previously you might have been able to imagine but couldn't actually make, and that can make aesthetic progress possible.


In fact, eons ago I gave a lecture about the history of dance photography, which I titled Technique, Aesthetic, Public. My thesis was that for any kind of photography to progress at any given moment, there had to be three things: a technique (a way of making the picture); an aesthetic (a conceptual framework for imagining the picture); and a public (a group of people interested in seeing the picture... because nothing happens if nobody sees the dratted thing!) If you don't have all three ingredients arriving at the right time and in the right proportions, nothing happens -- kind of like an internal-combustion engine, another technological artifact that has caused me a lot of frustration over the years!

 

[Ranger 9]

Actually the shot 19 years later is a lot better with composition,mood , framing and placing your subjects.

I'd love to say that's because of my being 19 years' worth of smarter... but actually it's all down to the people in the newer picture deciding to stand farther from the door, and me happening to have a somewhat shorter lens on the camera that day!

[As a mental-fun-on-a-slow-day exercise, try imagining how various famous photographs might have been affected by similar factors: "Hey, guys, let's put up the flag the other way"... "Put down that pepper, Edward, I'm going to cook it for dinner"... "Sorry, Mr. Adams, I don't think we've got enough gas to make it to Hernandez"..."Gene, I told the kids they can't go to the garden until they've cleaned up their room"..."Keep your hands to yourself, sailor!"...]

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Anybody else ever feel that way? If so, does it bother you?

It's my biggest fear every time I grab my gear and walk out the door, so I fight it with all I have, every day. This is very individual obviously, but for me, challenging myself is what works. I do things in a different way, just to try it, get on a train to somewhere, just to see what I find there, take photos of people I've never met, up close or far away.

The biggest obstacle to renewal for most people is that they have too much to lose. There's family and business and car and dog and sailboat and holiday in Spain and whatnot, and what will happen to all that if I drive a different road to work?

But change is the key, and it doesn't even have to be to the better, at least not initially. Change means challenge and challenge means improvement, or at least seeing things from a different angle.

 

[fotografz]

Very interesting subject. One of the best ever IMO. :thumbup:

All we can do is share experiences and relate certain observations gained during the process of growth. Mine come from different creative disciplines ... which sometimes helps in figuring out growth in photography. The first step is to question yourself ... which you are doing.

For much of my career I was an Executive Creative Director working for one of the largest Ad agencies in the world, Young & Rubicam. At times I was managing over 100 creative people ... not just administratively, but creatively. My job was to help them to keep moving forward and to deepen their talent. Here are a few morsels I picked up while doing that:

Expand beyond yourself. Most people that are questioning themselves look inward. It's very easy to become isolated and complacent with the status quo. Try looking outward. There is a book called "Geniuses Together" ... where it points out that almost all great leaps forward in most any discipline were fueled by outer contact with like minded people, or more importantly more talented and accomplished people. Ad agencies are teeming with talented people, and also afford each creative person contact with some of the best photographers, cinematographers and graphic people in the world. I told my people to pay attention to these people and pick their brains.

To push my photography, I made contact with a very successful and accomplished photographer in NYC who mentored me. Dinner conversations with him were a tonic that fueled creative growth because he thought completely differently than I did. He is still pushing me to this day.

It is VERY important to pick who to associate with very carefully. Teaming up with people like you will be fun, but won't necessarily provide the goose you may need to move forward. Look to new places and faces.

Stop looking behind you. It was not uncommon for now very famous fine art painters to destroy their past work so it would stop infecting their chance at the future. Stop pining for the "good old days" and set your attention on what's to come, not what was. What "was" is still being evaluated with old creative standards ... you need new ones.

Provide yourself with a new purpose. Part of re-inventing anything is for it to have a purpose beyond your own self satisfaction. As Picasso said, "a painting kept in the closet, might as well be kept in the head". Picasso's work helped redefine how many other visual disciplines actually thought about time and space. He was still moving forward right until he dropped dead at 90.

This of course wasn't a problem with advertising since the purpose is obvious. Strange as it may seem, wedding photography did that for me. It was a completely different kind of photography to me ... but one with a purpose. My challenge then was to do it differently than from anything I had done before ... which meant forget what I had done before.

Try teaching or mentoring someone else. Nothing moves you out of studying your own belly button faster than teaching someone else. Take a raw talent under your wing, it's an elixir! One-on-one not over the internet. I have wedding assistants that have taught me more fresh thinking than you can imagine. Now I know why my mentors put up with me .... there was something in for them too!

Embrace technology, then ignore it. This may seem strange coming from a gear whore like me, but I actually do ignore all the differences and embrace the similarities of technology. They are all just boxes with media in them and some lens on front. They all work the same way. Some allow more or less of this or that, but are essentially the same. It usually only takes about 10 minutes to figure it out and get shooting. All the rest of the minutia is a huge distraction from getting on with the task of creative expression. People tend to hide in technology to avoid really moving forward on a personal level.

I get reminded of this almost daily by my pal Irakly Shandize, who is years behind in spending $$$$ on technology and light years ahead in creativity ... which he teaches to great effect with photographers that are stumped about their personal growth .

-Marc

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Marc, I was going to reply but none of the things I would have said come close the the truth of what you have said.

 

[fotografz]

Marc, I was going to reply but none of the things I would have said come close the the truth of what you have said.

Thanks Ben. You know, one of the hardest things to do is "unlearn" ... to empty the vessel and regain innocence so to speak (cliche' alert!).

When Picasso was once touring a children's school and came across a bunch of kids painting, he was asked what he thought ...

"When I was their age I could draw like Raphael. It has taken me a lifetime to learn how to draw like them."

 

[woodyspedden]

Change your shooting Woody , go out and shoot stuff you have NEVER shot before. It could be anything so don't worry about that but it stretches the creative and sounds like you are where I get once in a while just in a shooting slump which I find perfectly normal. Us longtime shooters just fall into the traps and we need to get out.

Thanks Guy

Great advice, which I will take immediately.

I think my other problem is that for the past two years I have been fiddling with various cameras, lenses, techniques etc and simply stopped being a shooter. That is one of the reasons I love your workshops. They get me out shooting again as opposed to wandering around the technologies.

I think that along with following your advice to shoot something different I will also follow some earlier advice to grab one lens only and force yourself to get the compositions you want using old and tried techniques. So I am going out with the M8 and the 35 Lux for a couple of weeks and see what happens

Woody

 

[woodyspedden]

I'd love to say that's because of my being 19 years' worth of smarter... but actually it's all down to the people in the newer picture deciding to stand farther from the door, and me happening to have a somewhat shorter lens on the camera that day!

[As a mental-fun-on-a-slow-day exercise, try imagining how various famous photographs might have been affected by similar factors: "Hey, guys, let's put up the flag the other way"... "Put down that pepper, Edward, I'm going to cook it for dinner"... "Sorry, Mr. Adams, I don't think we've got enough gas to make it to Hernandez"..."Gene, I told the kids they can't go to the garden until they've cleaned up their room"..."Keep your hands to yourself, sailor!"...]

A good book that helps in these matters is Ansel Adams 50 famous photographs and how they were made. Ansel describes in detail how he captured these images so we can imagine what we can do with our gear and our shots.

Woody

 

[Ranger 9]

I'm going to have to spend more time digesting Marc's response in particular, as it seems rather stellar. (And comes from a real-life "Mad Man," too! Are you gonna tell us if real life was anything like the TV show...?)

Woody, I'll have to track down that Adams book. Oddly enough, I don't care all that much for his photos personally, but what I've read of his writing has always been clear, interesting, and generally BS-free (much more so than that of many of his disciples!) Years ago in a textbook I ran across his description of making "Moonrise, Hernandez," and it's a hoot -- sounded like that teenage car game called "Chinese fire drill"!

 

[TRSmith]

I'll add my thanks to Marc for his excellent and encouraging post. As much as I value the technical discussions that take place on this forum, it's this kind of thing that ends up being the most nourishing in the long run.

And I will humbly add one additional factor to the stew of ingredients necessary for creative advancement; fostering a decent work ethic. I believe it takes a lot of hours and some real concentration to master almost anything. The same can and should apply to something as slippery as an internal creative "awakening." Sometimes it's nothing more than just putting one foot in front of the other, starting (in some direction, new or otherwise) that can lead to discovery and a eureka moment. I'm not sure how else to articulate it except to quote the Nike slogan and suggest that sometimes you have to "just do it."

 

[fotografz]

I'll add my thanks to Marc for his excellent and encouraging post. As much as I value the technical discussions that take place on this forum, it's this kind of thing that ends up being the most nourishing in the long run.

And I will humbly add one additional factor to the stew of ingredients necessary for creative advancement; fostering a decent work ethic. I believe it takes a lot of hours and some real concentration to master almost anything. The same can and should apply to something as slippery as an internal creative "awakening." Sometimes it's nothing more than just putting one foot in front of the other, starting (in some direction, new or otherwise) that can lead to discovery and a eureka moment. I'm not sure how else to articulate it except to quote the Nike slogan and suggest that sometimes you have to "just do it."

BIG truism here ... inertia is hard to overcome when it comes to non-tangible stuff ... screwing around with gear is easy, screwing around with your head is a lot harder

That's why it helps to get involved with others who will call you on all the nonsense that we bury ourselves in sometimes.

 

[glenerrolrd]

First this is a great thread. Just wait until the working stiffs on the forum retire. When I was working ...I was fortunate to have an international management position that afforded travel just about anyplace I wanted. One of those jobs where you were tested everyday and there we 6-7 great people behind you. Never had any time to worry about really anything. Then you retire....yikes .. Now you can really think things thru plus the motivation is 100% internal.

What I am finding is that ..you want better pictures...get out there one hour earlier,stay one hour later...eat lunch on the street , go out in the rain and cold and heat. Take a chance to get that special image. Not once in the last two years have I been sorry when I pushed myself . No substitute for F8 and be there. Or maybe I should just relax and learn to enjoy the journey a little more? Probably a little of both.

 

[KurtKamka]

Excellent thread.

Curiosity keeps me motivated. I want to understand and try to capture the human experience. Sometimes I'm successful and other times not so much. And yet, there is something all-consuming in the hunt.

I always feel excited to download each memory card full of images ... the minute that excitement ends, however, I will pull the plug. If I'm unable to bring my willingness to try to understand that which is around me into my images, I know that I'll have let myself down. I have no problem if technique and equipment let me down ... I can easily change them. But if I loose my willingness to try to capture the 'why' ... that'll be something more fundamental that'll take a lot more work to address.

I like to try to understand how people shoot from looking at the images they present. That includes beginners, amateurs, professionals and the long-dead. The images present small glimpses into how they process the world around them. When I look at some of my downloaded images and I feel that they stink, I try to approach the imaging from someone else's perspective. Sometimes that'll send me off into a new direction.

For me photography is free-form like jazz. It offers endless opportunities to react to and live in the momentary fragments I'm able to shape into a reality of my own making. For anyone that's interested, there's a great Herbie Hancock DVD out there call "Possibilities" that illustrates his approach to music as he records something new, original or with a group of other artists. In the DVD, he recalls his early days working with Miles Davis. He relates how Miles would instruct others in the band to forget about practicing in their hotel room ... practicing was for the stage in front of the audience.

Kurt