Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    As I read over various threads dealing with a number of digital questions ... and reflect on my own trek through the digital wilderness ... I began wondering if we have become so impatient, and that our eye and mind is on the future so much, that we never realize the promise of the now.

    This struck me almost immediately when I got the Nikon D3X and the first files that I shot weren't immediately there. I was so pissed I thought to send the camera back. But I cooled down and kept at it ... low and behold, it began revealing its wonderful abilities, and continues to do so. So, the question is ... is the camera not there, or am I just to impatient?

    I also observe this impatience concerning RAW software and all the debates swirling around different choices. Of course subjectivity comes into play, but I also wonder if people really explore the possibilities to any depth before making pronouncements?

    When I harken back to my first plunge into Photoshop, I remember what one of the commercial retouchers told me (one of the best PS users I have ever seen) ... "Marc, you are just starting on a lifelong learning curve. You will never master this program, only parts of it." Yet, if some program we try doesn't deliver in a matter of hours, we declare it less than another we have been working with for years I know for certain I am guilty of this concerning C1-Pro. I suspect it's also true for those condemning Light-Room (not to start that debate all over again).

    I suppose part of it is that there's so much to grasp, how could you do everything to the degree that all the abilities are revealed?

    Many of us had decades of experience using film, and most film cameras were basically the same ... where we could change its response by changing the film and processing. Pro Lab work was done by dedicated experts ... or, if we did our own darkroom work, we spent years mastering the basics and continued to refine it.

    When I went MF Digital I used the same Kodak back for years and years, and really made that sucker sing. As I began jumping around, I was struck on how small the incremental improvement were ... $80K later, I was still wondering about this ... but now realize that I was too impatient with the next thing, and never lived with it like I did the Kodak back. Great for the manufacturers, but bad for my bank account.

    My take on this is to stick with the now and try to get everything possible from what I have rather than jumping around from Lilly pad to Lilly pad. Rather than accept some so-called limitation, try to keep at it until I know for certain it's a real limitation ... not some product of my impatience. Only when I'm sure then make the jump to the next Lilly pad. BTW, it's a lot less expensive doing it this way ... I think

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin, Texas, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    112

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Yes, we have and that's one reason I'm wanting to move to an 8x10 veiw camera and contact printing.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


  3. #3
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central Maine, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    I can testify to being guilty of impatience when I made my return to photography in the digital age. Selective memory, or nostalgia or maybe even sentiment, dredges memories of my early film days so long ago and convinces me it was a much simpler time. In those days (through the above memory filters) it was all about light and film. The technical controls were exposure and development with an additional opportunity to embellish the results through advanced print making. Cameras and lenses were simply devices designed to expose the various films. Shutter speed and aperture were the big controls to master.

    Skip ahead 25 years or so and I found myself unpacking a brand new Nikon D2Xs and 3 zoom lenses, anticipating an instant return to whatever mastery I had achieved in that long-ago era. Nope. The sheer volume of options displayed in the various menus on that little screen on the back of the camera overwhelmed me. I was determined to start out shooting RAW and struggled with that for a long time. Added an M8 and found myself on more comfortable ground and it was that camera that got me through the steepest part of the digital learning curve.

    A month ago I picked up the Nikon again and was shocked at the images I was able to produce with it. It had lain in its bag for almost a year, unused and untrusted. I think now that it was just waiting for me to catch up to its potential.

    My personal theory regarding almost any endeavor is that success comes through effort, but the effort needs to be the "right" effort. Endless chasing of "quality" and churning of equipment takes a certain amount of time and effort. Time and effort that might be better spent on understanding the tools already in hand.

    (The caveat here is for those who earn a living with their tools need to stay competitive and can, occasionally, turn new features into cash. For them, it's smart to be impatient sometimes.)

  4. #4
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Marc great post and you and I fall into some of the same fox holes a lot .Both of us have been through many systems of the last last 8 years any further than that I would have to get out the diary to remember. LOL

    I think it is safe to say both of us have been looking for the perfect answer to the age old question is this the best thing I can use to get the job done and if not what is, which has led to buying many systems to try and figure that out. Like you I have settled this down to a screeching stop although you have bought more than I have recently with systems. What I realized after say starting with Canon and winding up with all Leica glass than moving to the DMR was maybe one of my better moves. My bad move was selling it for what I thought would be better was the M8 in image and in some respects it was but my mistake was it's total versatility for me. It left me short for several types of work and I moved up to MF. Now the interesting part here is this maybe the longest I had a system or maybe it seems that way. The thing that I have learned or adapted to more than anything is actually force this system to do things it is not supposed too. Now I can do that with any camera and have but I am pushing MF into service that not many would dare even try never mind actually shoot jobs with it. Maybe I am crazy for doing it but as hard as it is sometimes with DOF limitations I am pulling it off and still getting what I want which sometimes certain gear limits the creative process. MF is NOT easy in this regard and I have to push extra hard to go after shots I did much easier with say the DMR.

    So looking back at this some I have been a very impatient person in the past and moved around systems trying to find the best one without sitting on it and really working it to death to get what I want. That has changed when I moved into MF and maybe because I left myself no choice as well since i have refused to buy a 35mm system. Partly money but mostly hassle and just more crap in my stall. But I am really happy with what I have right now but still get worried that I try to bite off quite a bit when I have to work really fast which tomorrow I know I am facing a really tough gig with shooting a Chinese extremely high level delegation and I mean a REALLY high level set of people. But on the software side I have stayed the course pretty much with C1 since I have been using that for about 6 years and know it very well and at one point C1 was not so hot and used Lightroom which was for me just okay but C1 has risen again with Version 4.8 so I am back to what is comfortable and works for me. One area I have not jumped around to much because as you say it is tough to learn all these programs and that is not what I want to do is jump around in this area but stick with one and be a expert at it, which I am. I think
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  5. #5
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Guy,
    Who would have ever thought you to be impatient?
    Just watching you pace around looking for a shot makes me nervous.
    -bob

  6. #6
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    As you know Bob I never just settle for that one shot and move around quite a bit to find that perfect shot and something I try and get the workshop folks to do. Never just walk up to something and shoot. Look around and study it for the perfect shot.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    I hear you Guy. I've been narrowing down my gear closet, but it's still a mini B&H west. I guess I'm a pack-rat in that old systems like the RZ and Hassey V stuff just hang around like comfortable old shoes ... besides I can't hack selling them at pennies on the dollar.

    Where things went screwy for me is the commercial work falling off a cliff ... all this studio gear and much of the MFD stuff just sitting there waiting to be re-purposed. So my attention moved to 35mm DSLRs. My hopes were dashed concerning the use of a M8 exclusively for weddings ... but if the M9 will work at higher ISOs those hopes may be revived.

    The real key for me is to maximize what I have to see just how good it is for what I have to do ... them get serious about eliminating all the fat.

    -Marc

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Yes for you your business changed and you readjusted which is very smart actually.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #10
    nei1
    Guest

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    "I dont think anyone has come along yet to show everyone the way.The new technology should enable someone to "go places never seen before!"..........Im sure there"s a kid somewhere whose light will shortly be switched on and make us realise that this technology has a point to it.
    As it is and with the images that have been produced so far its been pointless."

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Boulder Creek, Ca.
    Posts
    388
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    I think I am a bit toward the opposite end of the spectrum, having only recently gone digital(ignoring P&S) and pushing my venerable 7/8000i bodies out of the bag.

    I was very stubborn -- "The new Maxxum bodies are awesome, but do I really need all of that?"(yes to MLU & DOF, but the $$$...)... "digital isn't there yet"... "digital is almost there, but I don't want to give up half of my UWA coverage"... then the a900 came out and knocked my socks off. My only remaining excuse, as a hobbyist, was $$$... then I received a nice bonus at work, part of which covered the $$$(as a bonus, the other half was eyeing what I was spending on film and processing)...

    Now, I am trying to be patient. I have quite a few other projects to wrap up before I can spend long hours looking for "the shot" on a regular basis. I don't know if the a900 will still be perfectly functional after 20 years like the Maxxums, but I'm planning to find out.
    α900+VG|F20|2xF58|16-35,24-70,135Z|STF|70-400G|50,85 1.4|16,20,28,100M,80-200APO f/2.8|28-135|500f/8|1x-3xMacro|2xMFC-1000|Tiltall+RRS, Bellows, etc.

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manchester/Jerusalem
    Posts
    2,652
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    290

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Still shooting 5D's after 4+ years and well over 100,000 frames between them, my kit, cameras, lenses, lights are getting more and more beat up as I use it again and again and again. Gets to a certain point where you slip into your niche, where the gear is exactly right for you (within reason! ) and you lose the interest in changing.

    I just don't see much out there to excite me any more, I'm doing new things at every wedding, but with the gear I have, making it work harder and work differently. The only thing I'm really excited about these days are Radiopoppers and there is a 6 week waiting list, I only just got the info from a friend who has been testing them that the US units work without an issue in the UK. I'd been waiting for the EU units for about a year now with no real hope on the horizon. With the RP Px's I can stretch my creative off camera lighting outdoors during the hectic pace of a wedding.

    The only thing that really tempts me still is the D700, but not till they make an AFS 85/100mm and I have the money... My 5D's have done pretty much everything from commercial to wedding to my current stitched urban landscape projects. No it isn't perfect, yes it does the job, well enough that it would take a FF canon 7D to even give me enough pause to check the old bank balance!

    I've still not been in love with a camera since the venerable and incredibly nice Canon A1. I can't even manually focus any more due to screwed up corneas
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 7th September 2009 at 11:27.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32 31' 37.06" N, 111 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    As you know Bob I never just settle for that one shot and move around quite a bit to find that perfect shot and something I try and get the workshop folks to do. Never just walk up to something and shoot. Look around and study it for the perfect shot.
    This is one of the great reasons I love about shooting with a technical camera. Often times I find a completely different shot that what I can stopped for to begin with. I'll move the tripod a couple times before I even place the camera on it. And then I'm still looking as I'm setting the camera up.

    It's shooting with both eyes open - you get to see so much more that way.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NORCAL
    Posts
    304
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    fotografz

    i am no where near your league in photography but sure understand your post, albeit at a lower level. i went from nikon to canon then canon to canon and finally canon to nikon all over the past 6 years. throw in an m8 along the line. it cost me a ton--new glass, and i use the big dollar lens, the long teles. i like the system i have now, but know that sure enough there will be a new model around the corner. also, the price nikon is charging for their long glass is just out of control--i could buy a canon body and 400 2.8 for the price of just a nikon 400 2.8.

    i work with PJ's (ap, getty, etc) and most are still using one or two generation old canon cameras and lenses that date much older. for getting the job done, there older gear works. my guess is, that most of use could get our jobs with older gear--or put another way, our current systems can last us for sometime to come.

  15. #15
    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin, Texas, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    112

    Re: Musings: Have we become to impatient?

    I'll just add this to the mix..

    "The technology is greater, but the tendency is for people to think less. All you have to do now is aim and push a button. That's fine if all you're interested in doing is recording things." - Ansel Adams,The Playboy Interview, May 1983

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •