The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Boke Panoramas - large format with small cameras

carstenw

Active member
I have been side-pursuing boke panoramas for some time now, starting a few years ago with a funky portrait and a macro rose shot, and continuing from this spring, and I really like the results. I am still fairly inexperienced with it, I would say, although at this point I do have a decent but small collection of shots.

My quest is to find the lens/aperture/subject distance combination which gives the most interesting, large-format-like results. I currently use either Zeiss 100 MP or Nikkor 200/2 VR on my Nikon D3, and stitch in Autopano Pro or Photoshop CS4.

I am curious to hear about other people's experiences with this, what equipment they use, see their results, and generally chat about it.

Here is my first recent shot, which I called "Veil of Sharpness", due to the very thin and transparent region in focus. Nikon D3, 200/2 VR @ f/2.



P.S. my apologies to those who prefer spelling boke with 'h': my reason is that the 'h' isn't standard practice for translating Japanese into English, and was only done because most people otherwise mis-pronounce it to rhyme with "bloke" instead of bo-keh. See also Mike Johnston's original essay on this topic on LL.)

P.P.S. some guy out there by the name of Brenizer also started doing boke panoramas at some point a couple of years ago, and a bunch of people on Flickr who had never seen it before started calling it the "Brenizer Method". He originally said that he didn't invent it, which is true, but now he has changed his line and says that he has asked "thousands of people" if they had ever seen something like that before, and they answered no, so therefore he invented it. Someone ought to ask him if *he* has seen it before, to which the answer is yes, according to himself a couple of years ago.

P.P.P.S. I certainly didn't invent it either. My first was around 2007, although I had been thinking about it for some time before doing it, and Daniel Buck got there before me, and he had also seen it somewhere else before. Anyway, all it is is stitching with a large aperture, so no one invented it explicitly, except perhaps the first guy to stitch. We are talking old film days.
 

carstenw

Active member
FYI, here are my two early results, created in 2007 with the Leica M8 and 50 Lux ASPH, and 90/4 Macro, respectively, from 36 and 100 shots, respectively. I concluded at the time that macro boke panoramas made no sense; I got nearly the same results with a single 75 Lux shot.



 

carstenw

Active member
This one was less successful, but I know what I am after here, and there is something there somewhere. This was recent shot #2.

 

carstenw

Active member
Here are two, still early spring with ice on the water, which I quite like, although neither is stunningly beautiful. One or both may be over-sharpened. I need to redo these, as I was less good with sharpening at that time.



 

carstenw

Active member
This one is back on track, IMO, but I need to find a better tree for what I want. Over-sharpened again. I will come back and redo it at some point, hopefully soon.

 

carstenw

Active member
This was another attempt at the veil of sharpness look, but it didn't work. I like the shot, but it is somehow unspectacular.

 

carstenw

Active member
This one I like very much. It is over-sharpened, no question, but this put it into an intriguing painting-like look which I would like to pursue, parallel to my general boke panorama project. All other shots so far were with the 200/2 VR, but this one is the Zeiss 100 MP, I believe.

 

carstenw

Active member
Here is another one I quite like, although I haven't received much positive feedback on it. I am slowly getting my sharpening under control, but I am not there yet.

 

carstenw

Active member
This one I also like, but I need to revisit it. It has more potential than I was able to pull out of this shot, I think. 100 MP again, as was the previous shot. Still over-sharpened.

 

carstenw

Active member
This one achieves the look I want. Interestingly, it is a single Zeiss ZF.2 50 MP shot, and thus should be kicked out of this thread.

 

jlm

Workshop Member
Carsten:

interesting pursuit, though i admit to being confused by the "large format" look in conjunction with boke and panorama and small format camera?

what I see, rather than an emphasis on boke, is a defined range of what is in focus, more a defined and controlled depth of field ("thin veil of focus"). I'm not sure how that relates to large format and pano.

I like the effect in shot #4; looks very much like what you see in the ground glass
 

carstenw

Active member
I am only relating to the thin depth of field which naturally comes with the larger formats. To get that thin a depth of field with 35mm FF at an appreciable distance (not just macro or portraits), you need to resort to tricks. Stitching is the trick here, with shots made wide open, on big-aperture tele lenses.

Of course, many people shooting large format don't shoot wide open at all. Most even. So the tagline is a bit of a lie :)
 
D

dcjs

Guest
Very interesting topic and some nice shots Carsten. I have to agree though that you went a little overboard on sharpening with some of those. Not an easy task though, and I mentioned elsewhere that I'm still struggling with downsizing and sharpening of very large images myself.

I got myself a pano head this spring and I think I haven't taken a single "serious" single-frame image since then (not that I get out to photograph my preferred subjects very often anyway). Very nice way to work around not being able to afford a FF, let alone MF camera.

My only lens that is somewhat capable of shallow DOF panos is the Contax 35-70/3.4. Here's one at 70/4 (with the Fuji S5 as always):



So where's the "shallow DOF"? That is a problem with web presentation, a lot of the effect is lost when downsizing the image because the background gets too sharp. Here's a 50% crop from above image:



At medium distances, the Vario-Sonnar delivers very smooth yet Zeiss-like boke, and I like the results very much when conditions are right. Something that doesn't work as well ist short subject distances with the lens wide open such as in this example:



Very nice sharpness and contrast in the foreground, but the mid-range background (ivy on the tree) does look somewhat disturbing. Also, there are background highlight circles that are "cut" due to the stitching process.

So far I have only been using Hugin for my stitching, it's free and has worked well most of the time so far.

There are many things to consider if one wants to get the maximum from this technique and I'm still in the early stages of learning, but so far it has absolutely been worth the trouble for me. I'm looking forward to exchanging experience on the technique.
 
Last edited:

carstenw

Active member
Very nice results, David. That Fuji really has electric greens. Do you boost them?

I will go back and redo my panos w.r.t. sharpening, and update the results inline, to keep from bombarding the thread with the same results again.

I have been putting it off since for some of them I didn't store the full-size intermediate result in Aperture, and so I need to redo the panoramas themselves. Another reason is that all my work is done on a 15" 2.4GHz MacBook Pro with 6GB RAM, which can be a bit slow. My workflow was a bit loose when I started this. Meanwhile, it has settled down and I am fairly efficient.

My sharpening technique is based on the ones of Samuli Vahonen and Luka (denoir) over on FM. Basically, I use three levels of strength: Sharpen, USM 150/0.5/5, and Smart Sharpen 100/0.2. I always sharpen, reduce size by 62% (random number not evenly dividing pixel count), and repeat. At the end I add a frame, which I find helps the presentation immensely.

I start with Sharpen and see if it was not enough, looks good, or if it was too strong. If it was not enough, I try it again. If at any point it looks good, I go to the next size down. If it was too strong, I undo it, and try USM. The same procedure holds here, and if that was too strong, I undo it and use Smart Sharpen, which is so mild that I usually have to apply it two or three times.

The problem with my earlier results was not the procedure, but my evaluation. I am more trained in spotting trouble now, and tend to leave the images very slightly soft at all steps, until the very last one.

This technique works so much better than anything I have tried before, although I have not tried Nik Sharpener, and so on. Maybe I should, because I suppose it could save time, and I might then be able to stay in Aperture. I could code a frame plugin for Aperture myself, it shouldn't be too hard, since I am a programmer.

Out of curiousity, what aspects of the process are you still tinkering with?
 
D

dcjs

Guest
Carsten,

I don't do any kind of selective color correction to my images. In fact, my PP skills are quite rudimentary (also caused by being stuck with an ancient version of PS), but luckily the Fuji usually does not require any sort of serious PP at all. In fact, changing settings during RAW conversion usually makes the images look worse, I mostly only tinker with saturation, contrast and exposure/dynamic range. White balance is usually set to 5300K and works for all but extreme conditions.

Almost all of my panos so far are JPGs straight out of the camera, mostly with color saturation set to medium high in-camera. Those greens are enhanced by the polarizer, but I think they don't look "fake" because of the natural color rendition of the camera.
 
S

Shelby Lewis

Guest
This is a technique I've delved into a little bit... and really like the results. I've actually thought about doing it, with fewer frames, on my MF equipment to see it I can get a more LF-like presentation.

Neat examples!

Here's one I posted a long while back... my atypical color treatment didn't work that well though and I might revisit this one. Or maybe not. :D



I'll have to get back into this stuff!
 

carstenw

Active member
David, that is pretty amazing (about the natural Fuji green) colours, but I guess there is a reason that Fuji film boxes are green :)

Shelby, that is a really neat shot! Do you have more? The grain looks great, but it is somewhat ironic how you are simulating large grain in a photo with huge resolution :D
 
S

Shelby Lewis

Guest
Shelby, that is a really neat shot! Do you have more? The grain looks great, but it is somewhat ironic how you are simulating large grain in a photo with huge resolution :D
My computer crashed last week, so I don't have anything readily available for another few days.

Your comment about the grain solves a problem I've had with this image. I never could explain what was funky about it... I like the grain but it always seemed out of place. I think you put your finger on it. We're accustomed to associating ultra-high resolution with small grain... at least anecdotally. It all makes sense now, ha. :D

BTW... my posted photo was taken with a 5Dii and an 85/1.8 at around f2 (maybe 30 or so frames). I think these photos often (but not always) work best with fast mid-telephoto length lenses. Lenses that are quite long often lose the veil of sharpness due to subject-to-distance concerns or take too many shots to (sometimes) be practical. The fast mid-telephotos can allow a bit of breathing room (fewer shots) while still allowing for shallow DoF. I bet the sony 135/1.8 would be perfect for this application... much like the 85/1.2 on the canon end.

Cool stuff!

I bet the Mamiya 150/2.8 would be great in this regard as well... super sharp but not too long. I might try one of these with my mamiya 210/4, wide open, at moderately close distance in order to see how this works with MF. Or maybe the 80/2.8 at close distance.

You've sparked my interest in this again!
 

carstenw

Active member
This is right on the border of what a boke panorama is, being just two shots, but the look is right. Cross-posted from the Zeiss thread. 50P ZF.2:

 
S

Shelby Lewis

Guest
I gave this a shot with my aptus ii-6, and mamiya 210/4 (wide open). Worked pretty well considering an f4 lens.

To save (lots!) processing time during this trial, I output 2000px (long side) jpegs out of lightroom and then combined those. I bet if I output full size files and then merged them, the effect would be more pronounced. I might let the computer give it a shot later on tonight.

As it stands... not too bad (composition and funky light not withstanding :eek:).



Cheers!
Shelby
 
Top