Hello everyone,
This is my very first post on this forum.
Just wanna to say hello to all of you guys first.
It has been an helpfull pleasure to read your comments and advices on these posts. Many thanks for that.
I'm an enthusiastic amateur photographer, no pro and am thinking about making the big plunge from DSLR to MFDB since a few weeks. A post like the recent one of Andrews is of a big interest to me. It's a chance some guys are willing to spend so much time sharing their experiences (although I'm sure writing the posts has certainly helped him to structure his own thoughts !).
I've had a quick demo of the phase one P21+ P25+ & P30+ on the new 'phamiya' camera last week. I was impressed on how easy it was to handle this camera, the back settings and so on. A real kid's play. But I also was disappointed about a few things. The autofocus is - by no surprise - very slow. Not to be compared to my Canon. It has had difficulties to work properly on dark lit places inside the showroom (where the canon did find his focus in a micro second). I was hoping the viewfinder to be brighter too (80mm mounted on the camera). I found it no better than my canon (but the 50mm f1,4 was mounted on the canon). The portrait position of the phase one was also less pleasant than the vertical grip of the 1DsmkIII.
During this demo I had the silly idea to make a quick comparison of the 3 backs with the canon. The cameras were put on a table and pointing at a fish tank inside the showroow. Everything on f5,6 iso 100. Autofocus on the fish tank. Later I did compare the files at home. The phase one were developed in C1 v4 (demo version for Mac) and the canon file with Lightroom I know well.
I was hoping to be blown by the MFDB IQ, but at the contrary did find it very difficult to see major differences in these 4 files. Dynamic Range ? all 3 Phase one seem to have the same - the 1Ds was just a bit shorter in the higlight, just. Colors were more difficult to judge, especially on such silly file samples (inside of a showroom). The P30+ was looking best to me - the canon was the least accurate. BUT, with little test and trials I could quite easily make a script in photoshop to make the canon file almost look like the P30+.
The digital backs seem to tolerate lightning temperature differences better. The Canon made a obvious blue cast where natural light was more present and a magenta cast elsewhere. The back files were more neutral. The absence of AA filter was a + point for the backs. Sharpening the canon file to make it as sharp as the backs can easily be done. But the result looked less natural whatever the settings I used.
To be honest all these differences were minor to me.
The only one that made a real difference was how the DB were handling the low greys. No matter how the canon file was postproduced, I was unable to get the smoothness of the low greys of the backs. This did make an important difference on the final appearance of the pictures between these different systems. The canon result lacks the smoothness and natural effect in the low end of the histogram. That point at least was obvious enough it could be pointed without hesitation.
So this demo turned out to be a bit disapointing at the end.
But I still want to buy a digital back !
Why ? mostly because I feel unhappy with some of the DSLR file caracteristics (harsh low lights, annoying 'over' sharpening process due to the AA filter, weak color rendition for portrait). But to be fair, when sitting in front of my computer and looking at those files I made at the dealer place - I can't keep wondering if jumping into the MFDB world is a reasonable choice. My bank manager already has a definitive opinion on that...
I've looked at most of the pictures posted here. They are just great. Most of them I won't be able to produce I think. But I just can't determine how deep the MFDB are involved in these results !! After all some of you guys are pro photographers with sharp shooting skills and certainly strong postproduction skills.
So the real issue for me is to know if I'm 'good enough' to take - but also see and appreciate - all the benefits a MFDB can bring to a shoot.
Of course nobody but me can find an answer to that. Nevertheless maybe sometimes it is also necessary to make some kind of reminder: reading hundreds of posts and looking at great MFDB pics creates a strong envy. Sort of 'I can't live one more month without having my own MFDB' thing. But once the purchase done, someone's own photographic skills (and financial planning) will speed up the come back to reality.
That said, maybe the comparison I made was a very bad idea. The conditions of it were maybe unfair and unappropriate with the DB potential.
But I also have red some posts on the LL forum about comparing the 1DsmkIII with the backs. Opinions were quite different from DB and canon users....
Please do take these words for what they are: fuzzy impressions, lot of 'maybe' from a non pro photographer. I don't want to negate the IQ difference level between DSLR and MFDB. For sure they exist for those who can take the best part of these systems.
For the other more modest shooters like me, well, I hope I can soon report the IQ jump is also obvious.
I wanna use my Sinar P2 for packshots and this is a reason enough to buy a P25 or even a P45. And I'll do.
(I wish I could make better/longer tests (lucky Andrews !). It does just not seem to be possible here in Belgium !)
So I'm pretty confident about the IQ benefit the combination of Sinar, Schneider digitar lenses and a MFDB will bring.
But I'm making a lot of outdoor shoots too (landscape & street shooting). In these conditions, and with all the already known MFDB drawbacks (AF speed, iso limitations) I will just have to rely on hope and faith I guess...
As soon as I find a good refurbished Phase back, I'll buy it, use it on my Sinar with certainly great pleasure. Then I will confront this baby to my Canon, out of the smooth, warm and welcoming studio environment to see exactly what IQ profit I can personaly get there, outside in the wild !!
I will sure try to report on that as fairly as I can.
Thanks again for this forum,
anGy
ps: sorry for the bad english that is not my native language.
This is my very first post on this forum.
Just wanna to say hello to all of you guys first.
It has been an helpfull pleasure to read your comments and advices on these posts. Many thanks for that.
I'm an enthusiastic amateur photographer, no pro and am thinking about making the big plunge from DSLR to MFDB since a few weeks. A post like the recent one of Andrews is of a big interest to me. It's a chance some guys are willing to spend so much time sharing their experiences (although I'm sure writing the posts has certainly helped him to structure his own thoughts !).
I've had a quick demo of the phase one P21+ P25+ & P30+ on the new 'phamiya' camera last week. I was impressed on how easy it was to handle this camera, the back settings and so on. A real kid's play. But I also was disappointed about a few things. The autofocus is - by no surprise - very slow. Not to be compared to my Canon. It has had difficulties to work properly on dark lit places inside the showroom (where the canon did find his focus in a micro second). I was hoping the viewfinder to be brighter too (80mm mounted on the camera). I found it no better than my canon (but the 50mm f1,4 was mounted on the canon). The portrait position of the phase one was also less pleasant than the vertical grip of the 1DsmkIII.
During this demo I had the silly idea to make a quick comparison of the 3 backs with the canon. The cameras were put on a table and pointing at a fish tank inside the showroow. Everything on f5,6 iso 100. Autofocus on the fish tank. Later I did compare the files at home. The phase one were developed in C1 v4 (demo version for Mac) and the canon file with Lightroom I know well.
I was hoping to be blown by the MFDB IQ, but at the contrary did find it very difficult to see major differences in these 4 files. Dynamic Range ? all 3 Phase one seem to have the same - the 1Ds was just a bit shorter in the higlight, just. Colors were more difficult to judge, especially on such silly file samples (inside of a showroom). The P30+ was looking best to me - the canon was the least accurate. BUT, with little test and trials I could quite easily make a script in photoshop to make the canon file almost look like the P30+.
The digital backs seem to tolerate lightning temperature differences better. The Canon made a obvious blue cast where natural light was more present and a magenta cast elsewhere. The back files were more neutral. The absence of AA filter was a + point for the backs. Sharpening the canon file to make it as sharp as the backs can easily be done. But the result looked less natural whatever the settings I used.
To be honest all these differences were minor to me.
The only one that made a real difference was how the DB were handling the low greys. No matter how the canon file was postproduced, I was unable to get the smoothness of the low greys of the backs. This did make an important difference on the final appearance of the pictures between these different systems. The canon result lacks the smoothness and natural effect in the low end of the histogram. That point at least was obvious enough it could be pointed without hesitation.
So this demo turned out to be a bit disapointing at the end.
But I still want to buy a digital back !
Why ? mostly because I feel unhappy with some of the DSLR file caracteristics (harsh low lights, annoying 'over' sharpening process due to the AA filter, weak color rendition for portrait). But to be fair, when sitting in front of my computer and looking at those files I made at the dealer place - I can't keep wondering if jumping into the MFDB world is a reasonable choice. My bank manager already has a definitive opinion on that...
I've looked at most of the pictures posted here. They are just great. Most of them I won't be able to produce I think. But I just can't determine how deep the MFDB are involved in these results !! After all some of you guys are pro photographers with sharp shooting skills and certainly strong postproduction skills.
So the real issue for me is to know if I'm 'good enough' to take - but also see and appreciate - all the benefits a MFDB can bring to a shoot.
Of course nobody but me can find an answer to that. Nevertheless maybe sometimes it is also necessary to make some kind of reminder: reading hundreds of posts and looking at great MFDB pics creates a strong envy. Sort of 'I can't live one more month without having my own MFDB' thing. But once the purchase done, someone's own photographic skills (and financial planning) will speed up the come back to reality.
That said, maybe the comparison I made was a very bad idea. The conditions of it were maybe unfair and unappropriate with the DB potential.
But I also have red some posts on the LL forum about comparing the 1DsmkIII with the backs. Opinions were quite different from DB and canon users....
Please do take these words for what they are: fuzzy impressions, lot of 'maybe' from a non pro photographer. I don't want to negate the IQ difference level between DSLR and MFDB. For sure they exist for those who can take the best part of these systems.
For the other more modest shooters like me, well, I hope I can soon report the IQ jump is also obvious.
I wanna use my Sinar P2 for packshots and this is a reason enough to buy a P25 or even a P45. And I'll do.
(I wish I could make better/longer tests (lucky Andrews !). It does just not seem to be possible here in Belgium !)
So I'm pretty confident about the IQ benefit the combination of Sinar, Schneider digitar lenses and a MFDB will bring.
But I'm making a lot of outdoor shoots too (landscape & street shooting). In these conditions, and with all the already known MFDB drawbacks (AF speed, iso limitations) I will just have to rely on hope and faith I guess...
As soon as I find a good refurbished Phase back, I'll buy it, use it on my Sinar with certainly great pleasure. Then I will confront this baby to my Canon, out of the smooth, warm and welcoming studio environment to see exactly what IQ profit I can personaly get there, outside in the wild !!
I will sure try to report on that as fairly as I can.
Thanks again for this forum,
anGy
ps: sorry for the bad english that is not my native language.
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