airfrogusmc
Well-known member
But not without live view and with live view I'm out. I by a rangefinder because I want a rangefinder. Great Leica gives me that choice.
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Exactly, with the current M and hopefully the next M you have the choice to use a rangefinder or an EVF.But not without live view and with live view I'm out. I by a rangefinder because I want a rangefinder. Great Leica gives me that choice.
And if they don't make an M like the M 262 I won't be buying the next generation M.Exactly, with the current M and hopefully the next M you have the choice to use a rangefinder or an EVF.
Those things make Leica M just like every other camera out there. I call them the ones size fits all cameras. I am glad I actually have a choice like the MM which I have the original and love, the new 262 which does everything i need a camera to do without all the distractions and the M-E. So I praise Leica for giving me the color option with the 262 of a lighter, quieter, easier to negotiate menu without all the stuff I don't want at a price point that is cheaper.I've just received my M9-P back from Leica having had the sensor changed. I found myself trying to add an EVF to check the rangefinder adjustment. Nice idea but oh, red face! I was also trying to frame my 21 SEM with the OVF. Nice idea but oh, red face!
I was shooting product with the M240 the other day and tried to scroll magnified live view to check off centre focus. Nice idea but oh, red face!
I like the fact that my M240 is a simple rangefinder camera and I can use it as such, but I love the fact that I can change it in the blink of an eye to a far more adaptable camera. I can't imagine Leica will deliver the replacement for the current M without an accessory EVF or improved processor.
All I'm hoping for is that if Leica offer an accessory EVF then they offer a high quality accessory EVF and a processor that can keep up with it and in doing so allow me to own and use a classic rangefinder camera and modern electronic viewfinder camera in one body.
Hardly the stuff of radical change or pipe dreams.
I see your point, even though I dont feel the M type 240 to have anything more distracting. When used without EVF for me it just feels like a rangefinder.Those things make Leica M just like every other camera out there. I call them the ones size fits all cameras. I am glad I actually have a choice like the MM which I have the original and love, the new 262 which does everything i need a camera to do without all the distractions and the M-E. So I praise Leica for giving me the color option with the 262 of a lighter, quieter, easier to negotiate menu without all the stuff I don't want at a price point that is cheaper.
That is a true alternative to everything else out there.
It's not only lighter and quieter, the reason I say less distracting is the menu is much easier to negotiate because it's not as large. No video or live view.I see your point, even though I dont feel the M type 240 to have anything more distracting. When used without EVF for me it just feels like a rangefinder.
But good to have choices
The lower weight and quieter shutter are good reasons for the 262, but I assume they dont have anything to do with the question if an EVF can be connected or not.
By the way I found the M type 240 (and same is valid for the 262) to be closer to a film M than the M9. Why? Because they are faster to use (buffer etc), more silent shutter, and the buttons and wheels feel more solid.
If the 262 is even more quiet and somewhat lighter it would be my choice as well if I would buy a new M body at the moment.
I don't find the video or live view features in the M-P menu add much in complexity. It's just a few items (3? 4?) longer. If that.It's not only lighter and quieter, the reason I say less distracting is the menu is much easier to negotiate because it's not as large. No video or live view.
Have you read any of the reviews of the 262? The menu is a lot smaller (IIRC the 240 has 5 pages the 262 only 2)and I have found it much easier to negotiate.I don't find the video or live view features in the M-P menu add much in complexity. It's just a few items (3? 4?) longer. If that.
You make me want to have a look at the 262. I wonder how much quieter it is and how much lighter it feels. Personally the menues would be not a big thing for me, but slimmed menues wouldnt hurt.Have you read any of the reviews of the 262? The menu is a lot smaller (IIRC the 240 has 5 pages the 262 only 2)and I have found it much easier to negotiate.
The 262 looks interesting indeed! But so close to the next big M release at PK 2016, I rather may waitYou make me want to have a look at the 262. I wonder how much quieter it is and how much lighter it feels. Personally the menues would be not a big thing for me, but slimmed menues wouldnt hurt.
If I would buy a new M body today it would probably be the 262.
Yes, the M262 has two main pages and the M240 has five. BUT that doesn't tell the whole story. Have you compared the M240 vs M262 features and instruction manuals?Have you read any of the reviews of the 262? The menu is a lot smaller (IIRC the 240 has 5 pages the 262 only 2)and I have found it much easier to negotiate.
If I could have found an M60 new for $5100 I would have bought one. :thumbup:Yes, the M262 has two main pages and the M240 has five. BUT that doesn't tell the whole story. Have you compared the M240 vs M262 features and instruction manuals?
The M262 menus are shorter for one of three reasons: functions have been moved to submenus, functions are simplified and have no options, or functions are not supported. It's up to you whether having options is important or whether you consider the simplified functionality adequate to your needs and desires, independent of the elided features.
If you difference the M240 vs M262 menus, this is what you get ... considering the M240 menus as a baseline, the M262 menus are different the following ways.
in submenus:
auto slow sync
flash sync mode
contrast
saturation
sharpness
JPEG resolution
That's one page right there. Is it easier to get to these functions through a submenu or on the main menu?
no options:
light metering mode (no advanced modes, only classic)
DNG Compression (can't find whether it's compressed or uncompressed)
frame line color
acoustic signal (does it have one? can you shut it off?)
histogram (only intensity)
exposure metering (only classic mode, no pattern options)
color space (only sRGB)
film mode (eg: missing B&W film and filter modes; only contrast/saturation/sharpening)
There's a second page removed due to simplification/no options.
no support:
EVF brightness
focus aid
focus peaking
Exposure simulation
USB mode
Audio
Video recording
There's the third page. These are the truly unsupported items due to the removal of Live View, EVF support, and video recording. You could consider two of the second set (light metering mode and exposure metering) to be in this class since they are dependent upon Live View.
Analyzing the M262 menus, I would say that the M262 would likely be fine for me, but I would miss the options on DNG compression, frame line color, histogram display, and film mode. I don't think putting the flash and image quality items into submenus is any simpler than having them on the main menu either; it's just different.
And as I've said before, on the occasions when I use the 24, 90, or 135 mm lenses, I find the M/M-P typ 240's EVF nets a better viewfinder and improved focusing accuracy. I don't use these lenses that often, but it's nice to have the option.
If I truly wanted utter simplicity, I'd buy an ME60 body, 35-50-75 lenses, and that would be the whole kit. No JPEG engine, no display, no video, no live view, just a simple camera and raw files.
G
Can't even get an M262 for $5100 ... B&H lists them for $5200. :angel:If I could have found an M60 new for $5100 I would have bought one. :thumbup:
JEEZE bust my chops for $95. Ok I paid 5195 for mine and I have it with warranty. Still a waiting list at B&H. If the M60 was 5195 I would have bought a new one.Can't even get an M262 for $5100 ... B&H lists them for $5200. :angel:
Second-hand Prices on ME60 bodies are pretty low right now. I think Brad is offering his for $6900 at present.
If I could afford it I'd grab it at that price, but my money went for the SL. I'll have to make do with the M-P.
G
Just having fun... :grin:JEEZE bust my chops for $95. Ok I paid 5195 for mine and I have it with warranty. Still a waiting list at B&H. If the M60 was 5195 I would have bought a new one.
I was in that camp also. I held off on getting color bodies for my advertising/commercial work hoping that would be the case but when they announced the 262 and I had a chance to buy one I did. Bought an M-E also and sold all of my Canon gear which almost paid for the Leica gear. I was going to have to do something. My Canon bodies had over 150K each so I was going to have to do something soon. I wanted something less automated than the M240 or M-P.Just having fun... :grin:
The M262 is a good deal for that price. Enjoy it!
I so wanted to see Leica release the ME60 as a standard production item without all the special edition finish and price premium.
G