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CV announces 50 1.1 Nokton

R

Ranger 9

Guest
I have no idea when the Cosina 50/1.1 is coming. I have no idea if it'll be any good. I have no idea if I'll even have a job when it arrives, or how I would come up with the money to buy it.

But I've just PayPal'ed Stephen my deposit.

If it's as good as the 35/1.2 Nokton, I'll get a ton of use out of it on my Epson R-D 1 and Panasonic G1; it'll be great to have a less-quirky alternative to the images produced by my 50/0.95 Canon, and a full-stop-faster option for when the excellent 50/1.5 Nokton doesn't quite get it.

And I love the fact that Cosina boss Kobayashi is thumbing his nose at the mainstream photo-mag pundits who always say that nobody needs ultra-speed lenses anymore because zoom lenses and built-in flash can do it all.

Hey, Mister K, now we need a 75/1.5 Nokton to fill out the lineup...
 

Erik Five

Member
At this price its really a no brainer. If you get it early and dont like it you can probably easily sell it for the same amount again just because someone will be in line for a new one.
 

pgmj

Member
The 1m close focus limit is a unpleasant surprise, though. My only gripe with the 50/1.5 is the 0.9m limit since I tend to use 50mm quite often for portraits with my R-D1s.
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
The 1m close focus limit is a unpleasant surprise, though. My only gripe with the 50/1.5 is the 0.9m limit since I tend to use 50mm quite often for portraits with my R-D1s.
Inconvenient, but it shouldn't be much of a surprise since there are few rangefinder-couple lenses that can get much closer than 0.9m or so. It's not that the manufacturers couldn't make the lenses focus closer -- it's just that the optical and mechanical limitations of a rangefinder camera make it difficult to take advantage of closer focus.

To name two:

-- The lens couples to the rangefinder via a pivoted arm in the camera that swings back and forth, and there are both mechanical and geometric limits on how far this arm can pivot.

-- The rangefinder and viewfinder windows have to converge their viewing angles on the subject as you focus closer; eventually it's possible to get so close that the two windows are seeing the subject from noticeably different viewpoints, which makes it hard to line up the images. I used to have some prismatic "Auto-Up" close-up attachments for my Canon VI-T, and at the closest distances the finder view got noticeably "cross-eyed"!

It's possible to design specific lenses -- Leica makes one -- that will focus closer, using viewfinder and extension attachments to get around the above problems -- but they're still a bit cumbersome and not nearly as flexible as what you can do with a camera that permits through-lens focusing.
 

pgmj

Member
Actually it isn't all that unusual with 50mm RF lenses that focus to 0.7m (which is adequate for my needs). I ended up getting a Konica M-Hexanon 50/2 in addition to my 50/1.5 Nokton. Then again, the Noctilux also has the 1m limit, so I guess you are right about the "not much of a surprise".

Some other 50mm lenses that focus to 0.7m:

2/50 ZM
SUMMILUX-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH
SUMMICRON-M 50mm f/2
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
Actually it isn't all that unusual with 50mm RF lenses that focus to 0.7m (which is adequate for my needs). I ended up getting a Konica M-Hexanon 50/2 in addition to my 50/1.5 Nokton. Then again, the Noctilux also has the 1m limit, so I guess you are right about the "not much of a surprise".

Some other 50mm lenses that focus to 0.7m:

2/50 ZM
SUMMILUX-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH
SUMMICRON-M 50mm f/2
True enough, although you're not going to get down to the 0.5m or so that's typical for SLR lenses.

Another potential wrinkle: Even if the lens extends enough to focus to 0.7m, the camera may not couple at that distance. It depends on the mechanics of the rangefinder coupling arm, and this may vary from one camera model to the next.

Of course that's not an issue if you're going to be using it on your Micro Four Thirds camera :)
 

vieri

Well-known member
True enough, although you're not going to get down to the 0.5m or so that's typical for SLR lenses.

Another potential wrinkle: Even if the lens extends enough to focus to 0.7m, the camera may not couple at that distance. It depends on the mechanics of the rangefinder coupling arm, and this may vary from one camera model to the next.

Of course that's not an issue if you're going to be using it on your Micro Four Thirds camera :)
Leica M cameras' RF are coupled down to, and do focus as close as, .7 mt. By definition of RF, the focussing system on camera is not dependent on the lens; so, even if you put a .5 mt focussing lens on a .7 mt focussing M cameras you still get coupling down to .7 mt: after that, the lens' focussing ring turns, but nothing happens in your RF window. On the contrary, if your lens just focus to 1 mt, you loose .3 cm of possible RF movement, hence the previous poster's disappointment. A .7 mt focussing Nokton f1.1 would have worked just fine down to .7 mt on Leica cameras.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Leica M cameras' RF are coupled down to, and do focus as close as, .7 mt. By definition of RF, the focussing system on camera is not dependent on the lens; so, even if you put a .5 mt focussing lens on a .7 mt focussing M cameras you still get coupling down to .7 mt: after that, the lens' focussing ring turns, but nothing happens in your RF window. On the contrary, if your lens just focus to 1 mt, you loose .3 cm of possible RF movement, hence the previous poster's disappointment. A .7 mt focussing Nokton f1.1 would have worked just fine down to .7 mt on Leica cameras.
HI Vieri
I hope you're flourishing.
Close focusing seems to be an issue with very fast lenses, the Leica Nocti only goes down to 1 meter, as does that nice Zeiss you sold me (50 1.5 sonnar - I still use it often, and the 25 f2.8). Wide angle seems simpler (or perhaps it's just considered more important).
 

vieri

Well-known member
HI Vieri
I hope you're flourishing.
Close focusing seems to be an issue with very fast lenses, the Leica Nocti only goes down to 1 meter, as does that nice Zeiss you sold me (50 1.5 sonnar - I still use it often, and the 25 f2.8). Wide angle seems simpler (or perhaps it's just considered more important).
Hi Jono, great to hear from you! I am doing very well though very busy, how about you? Indeed you are right about some (many, perhaps even too many, depending on one's tolerance level :D )lenses focussing just down to 1 mt; what I was trying to point out was that the poster who said

"Even if the lens extends enough to focus to 0.7m, the camera may not couple at that distance."
was putting the blame on the wrong side of the camera-lens duo. Leica M cameras of today do couple their RF and focus down to .7 mt, then it's up to the lens to use this range or not: some lenses do exactly focus to .7 mt, some farther away (.9 or 1 mt), some, though, focus even closer than the .7 mt limit: for instance, the Super Angulon and other wides do focus down to .3 - .4 mt, but in this case the cameras RF will uncouple after .7 mt. So my point is that the poster I quoted above is incorrect in his statement; if a camera-lens combination does not focus closer than 1 mt is a lens limitation, not a camera one.

On another note, I am glad you are still enjoying the Sonnar! :D Me, I replaced the 21 I took from your hands with a 3.4/21 Super Angulon which is about my most used lens on the street...

Off topic: I will be in the UK end of June - would you care for a beer or two?
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
what I was trying to point out was that the poster who said

[here he quotes my post about mechanical travel of the coupling arm being a possible limitation in close focusing of rangefinder cameras]

was putting the blame on the wrong side of the camera-lens duo. Leica M cameras of today do couple their RF and focus down to .7 mt, then it's up to the lens to use this range or not...
Leica is not the only maker of M-mount cameras...
 

vieri

Well-known member
Leica is not the only maker of M-mount cameras...
Bessa R: .9 mt
Bessa T: .9 mt

Zeiss Ikon: I couldn't find the info anywhere.
Russian M copies: same as the above.

Leica Ms: .7 mt

Now, there are hundreds of thousands of Leica Ms out there, slightly less Bessas... this is why I mentioned Leica Ms in my reply.

As well, on a different note: no matter what camera one uses, many lenses do not couple down to .7 (or less): fast lenses, long(er) lenses, old(er) lenses tend to have longer minimum focus distances. Which was my point: despite your last point, statistically one have a much higher chance to be limited by the lens than the camera.
 

St Clair

New member
Looks like the release date has been pushed back in Japan to June 29th. I'm on the reserve list and the store price still hasn't been decided.
 

gDallasK

New member
I couldn't wait either - I plonked down a deposit a week ago.

Robert White are taking £100 deposit against early deliveries. I don't know when they'll have the product though.
 
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