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Brent, while I would also be interested in an answer re: compatibility of the old camera with the new lenses, I think that - if at all - they might be compatible using the focal plane shutter only; you cannot expect that the new shutter in the new lenses would work on a camera not designed for it, unless a FW upgrade will be able to take care of it.... Judging from the CI love shown on this forum I must be the only person these jokers never call back or return e-mails to although I can't for the life of me figure out why.
Doug, I've been following that thread very closely and the verbiage ("The 645DF camera is the only 645 medium format camera which supports both focal plane and leaf shutters..." and "the 55mm, 80mm and 110mm leaf shutter lenses designed for the Phase One 645DF and Mamiya 645DF cameras") seemed to imply that they would only work on the new body, but like wolf65 I had been told that the L/S lenses would work on the original Phamiya. Hence my reason for calling CI for a definitive answer.
Brent
I agree. But promising something that is not going to happen isn't professional neither. This is puffery on the black market.On a side note, I might respectfully suggest that calling people from what everyone knows as being a very respectable and responsive business "jokers" on a public forum is not very nice nor professional
Indeed as you said, even assuming that Phase will not deliver on the compatibility that Mamiya (not Phase, btw) promised between the new LS lenses and the old AFD III body, the dealers certainly have nothing to be blamed about.I agree. But promising something that is not going to happen isn't professional neither. This is puffery on the black market.
We still wait for a statement - but the silence is suspicious.
edit: I am referring to Phase, not to the dealers who likely just belived what they were told from Phase.
Per Wolf's links, I was led to believe that these lenses would indeed work with the Phamiya body.Brent, while I would also be interested in an answer re: compatibility of the old camera with the new lenses, I think that - if at all - they might be compatible using the focal plane shutter only; you cannot expect that the new shutter in the new lenses would work on a camera not designed for it, unless a FW upgrade will be able to take care of it.
Vieri, as the ultimate "nice guy" I would normally totally agree with you. However, a year of e-mails not responded to or only partially responded to and unreturned phone calls have me somewhat frustrated. It's reare for me to let negative emotion spill onto a public forum but I am human and occasionally slip.On a side note, I might respectfully suggest that calling people from what everyone knows as being a very respectable and responsive business "jokers" on a public forum is not very nice nor professional; more, asking one of them directly for an answers three lines after having insulted them is not probably really conducive to getting the answer you want/need. Just MHO of course
Brent, your frustration is understood of course, we are all human after all. I don't know how your communication with CI developed, so I will not go into that; I am surprised to hear that, after seeing on the forum how promptly they are generally responsive, as I am sure it is in their best interest to keep customers happy. I hope they will get back to you with all the info you need soon (maybe a private or even a public apology on the forum here would help mending the public name-calling, just a suggestion of course )Per Wolf's links, I was led to believe that these lenses would indeed work with the Phamiya body.
Vieri, as the ultimate "nice guy" I would normally totally agree with you. However, a year of e-mails not responded to or only partially responded to and unreturned phone calls have me somewhat frustrated. It's reare for me to let negative emotion spill onto a public forum but I am human and occasionally slip.
The reference to "Doug" you quoted in your message was actually a typo on my part as my intention was to respond to Guy's reply in this thread. I caught this and edited my message but you evidently replied to my message as I was simultaneously editing it to fix that typo, I apologize for the confusion.
Brent
again agreed. Still... they echoed the promise. So at least - justified or not - they are sitting in the same boat.
This is not true. Phase has repeatedly announced ls lenses for their excisting system.Indeed as you said, even assuming that Phase will not deliver on the compatibility that Mamiya (not Phase, btw) promised between the new LS lenses and the old AFD III body, the dealers certainly have nothing to be blamed about.
Wolf, notice that the Phase Announcement you linked to doesn't quote which body they'll work with. Also, the Mamiya announcement was the one that spoke about the AFDIII body compatibility, and of course there is no way of know what happened once they were assimilated by Phase.This is not true. Phase has repeatedly announced ls lenses for their excisting system.
September 2008:
Phase One has announced a new line of branded leaf shutter lenses.
The first lens to become available will be the 80mm leaf shutter lens. This will be followed by more leaf shutter lenses. Detailed specs on these lenses as well as availability will be posted shortly.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/09/22/leaf-shutter-lenses/
now this is a bit nitpicking. If - in September 08 - new lenses are announced I expect them to work with the current camera of the system they are made for.Wolf, notice that the Phase Announcement you linked to doesn't quote which body they'll work with.
I agree with your sentiment, just playing devils advocate here a bit and pointing out that if you read these things literally, there is "plausible denyability" on what has actually been said/written.now this is a bit nitpicking. If - in September 08 - new lenses are announced I expect them to work with the current camera of the system they are made for.
Possibly you have to buy a 645DF2 if you want to use the vertical grip as it was never promised that it will work with the DF :shocked:
Complete quote is, however:This is not true. Phase has repeatedly announced ls lenses for their excisting system.
September 2008:
Phase One has announced a new line of branded leaf shutter lenses.
The first lens to become available will be the 80mm leaf shutter lens. This will be followed by more leaf shutter lenses. Detailed specs on these lenses as well as availability will be posted shortly.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/09/22/leaf-shutter-lenses/
Which is exactly what they delivered, though with some delay. Adding, by the way, the 1/1600 flash sync with the new backs. Nowhere is mentioned compatibility with existing cameras, in fact it says it "will make the Phase One system the first system in the medium format digital world to use a dual shutter system" - note the future tense - and it doesn't say something like "will add to the existing camera line up the capability of making the Phase One system the first system in the medium format digital world to use a dual shutter system" In this and any other market, I tend to assume that what isn't said specifically and directly, no matter how much we wish it true, isn't necessarily going to happen. Especially when we are talking of a completely different system as LS and focal plane, which - so far and until the 645DF (or the S2, if the so far vaporware LS lenses will consolidate in real lenses ) - were not compatible with one other; assuming that the 645 AF will be able to use the LS lenses using the focal plane shutter make sense, assuming that it will be able to drive the LS makes much less sense to me, though of course I would love it to be possible by FW upgrade.Phase One has announced a new line of branded leaf shutter lenses.
The first lens to become available will be the 80mm leaf shutter lens. This will be followed by more leaf shutter lenses. Detailed specs on these lenses as well as availability will be posted shortly.
These lenses will make the Phase One system the first system in the medium format digital world to use a dual shutter system. This will give photographers ultra-fast shutter speeds (up to 1/4000th) when shooting available light, and a fast flash sync speed of 1/800th when shooting with strobes.