Where is the X1D ????

[wellfleet]

Only two new shots since November 9? Not overwhelming. Still waiting.

A few more here - https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=x1d&sort=date-taken-desc

And this, for those who've yet to see it - Mads Nissen on assignment in Columbia with Hasselblad X1D & H5D - Our World - Hasselblad

 

[PeterA]

Looking at those side to side comparitive pictures on flickr, of images of the Hasselblad X1D next to the Leica SL, and their unmistakable similarities in regards to looks, size, shape, profile and even industrial design, one could envision with some retooling, the SL could eventually evolve into a cropped sensor MFD mirrorless body akin to the X1D and become an eventual competitor in that market.

Dave (D&A)

Leica have cornered themselves with trhe SL V S situation. The SL lenses are capable of resolving to MF ( read 50 megapixels plus) as are the modern M lenses not to mention a plethora of manual focus gems from Zeiss ( Milvus and Otus ) - this does not speak to the image circle limitations of 35mm format lenses though. Given the T mount - I expect to see a new version of SL-2 with a 35- 50 megapixel sensor arrive in the next edition...a no bnrainer 'upgrade' for me when it happens. However - it begs the question - if a 50 megapixel chip is added to the Sl - where does that leave the S system - whose only (albeit very LARGE) issue is the autofocus gearing fail problem on the huge heavy glassed S lenses...??

trciky very tricky...

Leica can re-engineer a better OEM autofocus engine in their lenses for the S no doubt- but who knows how many lenses are already sitting in inventory with the bad autofocus engine - inloved and unwanted? No doubt lessons learned in S catastrophe will see the new line up of autofocus primes conming for SL benefit - one would hope anyway.

 

[hcubell]

Leica have cornered themselves with trhe SL V S situation. The SL lenses are capable of resolving to MF ( read 50 megapixels plus) as are the modern M lenses not to mention a plethora of manual focus gems from Zeiss ( Milvus and Otus ) - this does not speak to the image circle limitations of 35mm format lenses though. Given the T mount - I expect to see a new version of SL-2 with a 35- 50 megapixel sensor arrive in the next edition...a no bnrainer 'upgrade' for me when it happens. However - it begs the question - if a 50 megapixel chip is added to the Sl - where does that leave the S system - whose only (albeit very LARGE) issue is the autofocus gearing fail problem on the huge heavy glassed S lenses...??

trciky very tricky...

I agree, and in retrospect it really should have been Leica that released the X1D. However, Leica was too constrained by the S system and didn't want to encroach on it. So, Leica over engineered the SL and the SL lenses in size and weight and put a"lesser" sensor into it with fewer MP than the S.

 

[D&A]

I agree, and in retrospect it really should have been Leica that released the X1D. However, Leica was too constrained by the S system and didn't want to encroach on it. So, Leica over engineered the SL and the SL lenses in size and weight and put a"lesser" sensor into it with fewer MP than the S.

I believe once the issues with the S lenses have been sorted out, we will see a 50-60+ mp S body and sometime there after a 36mp SL2.

Although unlikely, in addition to the two aforementioned bodies, I could envision retooled SL body (incorporating a S lens mount and be able to accept a 50mp cropped MFD chip and become the mirrorless EVF alternative to the S system OVF bodies. This would certainly keep Leica current and innovative and provide a lot of different alternative bodies to accept the various Leica lens lines in the process.

Dave (D&A)

 

[PeterA]

I believe once the issues with the S lenses have been sorted out, we will see a 50-60+ mp S body and sometime there after a 36mp SL2.

Although unlikely, in addition to the two aforementioned bodies, I could envision retooled SL body (incorporating a S lens mount and be able to accept a 50mp cropped MFD chip and become the mirrorless EVF alternative to the S system OVF bodies. This would certainly keep Leica current and innovative and provide a lot of different alternative bodies to accept the various Leica lens lines in the process.

Dave (D&A)

The problem with S lenses is that they are even larger and heavier than SL lenses....the XID lenses are (relatively) compact and fit well with the size of the XID. The 30mm + XID will be a killer combination and THAT is the set-up I will be testing - I've already dumped my MF backs and Alpa gear along with 23/35/70 and 120 Rodenstock/Schneiders - cash is banked and all that remains is a few months of testing and reports before I hit the go or no go button - it is SIZE that turns me on to XID - I can carry one around with two lenses as easilly as an SL and same - or M and same...

 

[justalexander]

Maybe it's just me but the X1D shots seem to be lacking something in character that the H series camera and lens combos seem to have. I hope the rendering and files are pliable for different looks.

It's not just you, and I don't think its just the X1D. I personally think most cameras using a CMOS chip look a little lack-lustre, at least without some sharpening and tweaking.

I own a H3DII 22MP CCD. I was looking for an upgrade and tested the H5D50C CMOS. The images lacked the POP of my camera. I started a thread on here saying I wasn't sure the H lenses were up to a 50MP sensor and got shot down by many people. In the end I decided to buy a Leica S system and when it works it provides BEAUTIFUL pics. But I've been having significant problems with it so contemplating returning it.

I picked up my H3DII again the other day and took a pic. The image immediately POPPED off the screen even though it's about half the size of the 50C and Leica S.

I'm putting it down to CMOS v CCD. Even though the Leica is also CMOS, it's a custom designed sensor and also has the best MF lenses to go with it. Maybe this is why the S files look good in comparison to other CMOS sensors. Having said that, I have a client who doesn't like the files from the S believing them to have too much POP. I'm having to desaturate and tweak colours to look like my old H3D.

I read a user on here somewhere say that he found Capture One had too much default sharpening. Maybe this is how Phase Provides that extra POP that might have been lost in the move from CMOS to CCD.

Just a thought...

Justin

 

[wellfleet]

It's not just you, and I don't think its just the X1D. I personally think most cameras using a CMOS chip look a little lack-lustre, at least without some sharpening and tweaking.

Justin

I'm curious, do you think these two images are lack-lustre and lack POP? You can click on them for full enlargement. TIA.

http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/12/MadsNissen_Colombia2016_0211.jpg_HD_medres031.jpg
http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/12/MadsNissen_Colombia2016_083b1.jpg_HD_medres171.jpg

 

[wellfleet]

Here are a few more samples at 1600 and 3200 ISO. Unfortunately they can't be enlarged.

https://johnnyshoots.com.au/2016/12/17/high-iso-and-the-x1d/

 

[wellfleet]

Hasselblad has posted the updated firmware 1.14.2 on their site, so hopefully now all dealer demo units will get updated.

http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/12/Release-Notes-X1D-1_14_2.pdf

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Simply put the bigger the DR of the sensor the bigger the tonsil range and a flatter looking file which does not have that punch with sensors with less DR. Reasons are it's seeing into the shadows and highlights better. I typically have to add a touch of black point to get the pop but I'm also giving up some shadow detail. C1 defaults need to be adjusted to taste as it's just a default. Which typically it does have a little punch to it. It's why your shooting raw, default is meaningless.

You should be on a wide gamut monitor as well. Not a Srgb monitor which the color space is smaller ergo more pop but that's not what your file really is.

Big reason I bought the new MBP so when I'm processing on the road I'm seeing in a wider gamut than I was with my older mac. Otherwise I'm on a NEC wide gamut 27 inch

 

[D&A]

Hasselblad has posted the updated firmware 1.14.2 on their site, so hopefully now all dealer demo units will get updated.

http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/12/Release-Notes-X1D-1_14_2.pdf

The update site says..

"Added functionality and main improvements for X1D
Compared to v1.12.0:

• Selectable AF point
• Auto White Balance
• Exposure simulation on LCD/EVF
• B and T-modes
• Lens firmware can be updated through the camera
• Improved stability when the battery is low
• Language updates
• Bug fixes

This certainly added the missing functionalities I experienced with the X1D demo camera I shot with and thus had me initially concerned.

Dave (D&A)

 

[tashley]

Here are a few more samples at 1600 and 3200 ISO. Unfortunately they can't be enlarged.

https://johnnyshoots.com.au/2016/12/17/high-iso-and-the-x1d/

You can see bigger but not full sized versions by opening in another tab and then clicking to enlarge. They are 4000 px on the long side.

Honestly they're good but they're not blow-me-away good. There's certainly some purple fringing evident even at a glance (see the chef in whites for examples) and are they really that much lower in noise than an A7RII at 3200?

I'm so ready to be convinced, and one has no idea what the level of technique and processing was, but these are an 8 not a ten....

 

[wellfleet]

You can see bigger but not full sized versions by opening in another tab and then clicking to enlarge. They are 4000 px on the long side.

Honestly they're good but they're not blow-me-away good. There's certainly some purple fringing evident even at a glance (see the chef in whites for examples) and are they really that much lower in noise than an A7RII at 3200?

I'm so ready to be convinced, and one has no idea what the level of technique and processing was, but these are an 8 not a ten....

Weird, I can't get them larger than 1180x884 in Safari. I'll try another browser. Thanks.


UPDATE - I found some full size jpegs (8272x6200) processed in Lightroom at his Flickr account - https://www.flickr.com/photos/75096157@N06/

 

[tashley]

Tim, same 50MP sensor as Pentax 645Z, which I sold earlier this year. The noise levels at high ISO are good for a medium format camera but not as good as the a7RII (which I currently shoot with). Don't expect to have your socks blown off with high ISO performance.

I imported the full-size JPEG into LR and used the Defringe slider to remove the purple fringing. A setting of 3 did the trick. Not bad.

Joe

I agree, I did a 3 too and it worked fine. I have an odd bit of colour vision in that I spot purple fringing at a mile and it really irritates me. I am currently using an RX1 MkII and it has terrible purples, I see them all the time and they really annoy me and honestly, removing them isn't always as easy or effective as people make out.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would think high ISO noise floor to be quite similar between the A7rII and the Pentax 645Z.

The Sony A7rII has dual gain conversion using a technique licensed from Aptina that reduces readout noise at 640 ISO.


Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

So, what you see may relate to Bill Claff's data above. Keep in mind that camera vendors can take liberties with ISO ratings. Setting ISO 3200 on a Sony A7rII may not be the same as setting ISO 3200 on a Pentax 645Z. Many MFD cameras would underexpose a bit by default so they protect highlights.

Just to say, DR says a lot about shadow detail. The noise seen in mid tones is mostly shot noise.

Best regards
Erik

Tim, same 50MP sensor as Pentax 645Z, which I sold earlier this year. The noise levels at high ISO are good for a medium format camera but not as good as the a7RII (which I currently shoot with). Don't expect to have your socks blown off with high ISO performance.

I imported the full-size JPEG into LR and used the Defringe slider to remove the purple fringing. A setting of 3 did the trick. Not bad.

Joe

 

[Bernard]

I believe once the issues with the S lenses have been sorted out, we will see a 50-60+ mp S body and sometime there after a 36mp SL2.

Although unlikely, in addition to the two aforementioned bodies, I could envision retooled SL body (incorporating a S lens mount and be able to accept a 50mp cropped MFD chip and become the mirrorless EVF alternative to the S system OVF bodies. This would certainly keep Leica current and innovative and provide a lot of different alternative bodies to accept the various Leica lens lines in the process.

Dave (D&A)

Leica has already shown us their medium format mirrorless: the Sinar S30|45. For all we know it will ship earlier than the X1D and Fuji. The Sinar is aimed at technical camera users, and it is more expensive (if you can even find a dealer in North America), so it won't be as popular.

I would not hold my breath for a 36 MP SL. The next iteration is more likely to be around 30MP, like the Canon 5d4.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Tim,

If you hate axial chroma and like to shoot at large apertures you happen to have an expensive taste. Very few lenses will satisfy your needs…

Best regards
Erik

I agree, I did a 3 too and it worked fine. I have an odd bit of colour vision in that I spot purple fringing at a mile and it really irritates me. I am currently using an RX1 MkII and it has terrible purples, I see them all the time and they really annoy me and honestly, removing them isn't always as easy or effective as people make out.

 

[etto72]

As we all know Hasselblad, CEO told Kevin Rabar
that the camera started shipping to customers on December 12th
Do you guys heard anything?? Is it really shipping???
is this a little lie or perhaps one more innacurate date?

I am the stupid fellow which sold most of his gears in order to buy the X1D...I am now travelling around Europe with no serious camera in my hand
and with an horrible regretting feeling...
yes, maybe I should have wait before selling but you guys know that with the used market, timing is crucial !

I am sorry for being so negative during the holiday season
but I am just depressed not knowing anything , loosing trust, ....especially considering that for the 4116 edition (which is the camera i ordered the very hour was on sale ) Hasselblad doesnt even give a date

Merry Christmas

 

[tashley]

Hi Tim,

If you hate axial chroma and like to shoot at large apertures you happen to have an expensive taste. Very few lenses will satisfy your needs…

Best regards
Erik

Both statements are sadly true.

 

[ejpeiker]

As we all know Hasselblad, CEO told Kevin Rabar
that the camera started shipping to customers on December 12th
Do you guys heard anything?? Is it really shipping???
is this a little lie or perhaps one more innacurate date?

I doubt that it's a flat out lie but they didn't say how many units, might just be a very small number...