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Digital Nikon FM2

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
"Pure Photography" with IBIS? Nah... I don't think so. That wouldn't be in harmony with the marketing of this camera. Nikon doesn't offer IBIS with any other DSLR bodies, so why start with this one? If it is the D4 sensor, and an improved version at that, very useable ISO 25,600 will be within reach and another 3 stops available for coal mine interiors. I've even seen surprisingly clean photos taken at 51,200 with the D4. 204,800 is 6 stops better than a 3,200 film equivalent, the best one could hope for with an FM2 or 3A. So there has been some progress.

Add an f/1.4 prime or two (no, I don't think they intended the use of f/3.5-5.6 consumer zooms with this camera), and there isn't a place on earth that is dark enough for the DF not to deliver decent photos.

The thought has crossed my mind to sell all my other gear except the F6 and the needed lenses if the DF keeps its promises. With all my complaints and whining about useless, modern camera technology, it seems like an obvious option. As opposed to the E-M1, this camera has the same format and lens mount as my favourite film camera, which means that I would be able to alternate seamlessly between the two. It won't happen overnight but it might make me the happiest photographers on earth some time in the future :)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, I would not bet all my digital photography future on the DF, but it certainly is VER appealing.

Especially combining it with say the new 1.4/58 Nikkor it must become a killer combo - and I think also reasonably fast AF if you lust for ....
 

Tim

Active member
Oh, but in reality, $3,000 is cheap, at least for those with Nikon lenses in the drawer. For the maximum price difference between the Sony A7 and the Nikon DF, I can buy one or two good quality lenses. For those who want to shoot with native lenses, and nobody own native 35mm lenses in E-mount yet, there's no way around buying those lenses for the Sony. Nikon shooters already have some lenses that will mount on the DF and any new lens will mount on whatever Nikon cameras we already own.

Nikon of course knows this, so they price the camera accordingly. So while $3,000 dollars may not sound cheap, it's cheaper for most than half the price for the Sony.
While I don't disagree with you here, perhaps for me personally US$3K becomes more... hard to justify, as my equipment like so many other here, earns me nothing back. Perhaps it is the wrong attitude, but I feel my images are not worth the $3K. I'd mainly be buying it for my ego. I'd like FF for what it offers in technical terms in either this or the Sony A7/r but I fear "I am not worthy".

Maybe I will lash out the $$ and just get on with learning.

The thought has crossed my mind to sell all my other gear except the F6 and the needed lenses if the DF keeps its promises. With all my complaints and whining about useless, modern camera technology, it seems like an obvious option. As opposed to the E-M1, this camera has the same format and lens mount as my favourite film camera, which means that I would be able to alternate seamlessly between the two. It won't happen overnight but it might make me the happiest photographers on earth some time in the future :)
You are not the only one considering paring back. Some say "less is more".
Right now I could use with less technology in front of me, and for a photography muse to visit and inspire me. I'm in one of those creative slumps right now. :(
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
While I don't disagree with you here, perhaps for me personally US$3K becomes more... hard to justify, as my equipment like so many other here, earns me nothing back. Perhaps it is the wrong attitude, but I feel my images are not worth the $3K. I'd mainly be buying it for my ego. I'd like FF for what it offers in technical terms in either this or the Sony A7/r but I fear "I am not worthy".
It's a question of what the starting point is. Although I use manual focusing often, I can't do without a couple of AF lenses. That's where the Sony starts to get expensive for me. For the Nikon, I have AF lenses already. But there are other unanswered questions to:

- Will the DF have a focusing motor, making AF with older AF lenses possible?
- Is the viewfinder purely optical or a hybrid?
- If it's purely optical, does it have a focusing screen that is useable with wide aperture lenses?

I can hardly wait to try out this new camera, but I too will have to wait at least a few months before I buy it. It is a lot of money and the cameras I have still work flawlessly :)
 

Lars

Active member
I think it will be a cool little camera. Not for everyone, probably not for me as I have my eyes on D800E and cannot really afford a $2-3K second body. Perhaps it's intended as a halo product. Either way there's a good chance that this product will strengthen the Nikon brand.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I've watched the videos as they have come. They are clearly trying to target the "experience of photography" market. Tough to hit that one for a big enough group of people. Just look at this thread. Some want AF, some want IBIS, etc....

Just throwing a retro design at something isn't going to cut it. I think Guy's tagline about experimentation hits it for me. If it is a camera that encourages experimentation by getting out of the way, then they will have a winner. This does not mean the standard neutering of a camera to "make it simple." Making a simple, capable camera that is a pleasure to use, that's the expectation they are setting up with these videos. That bit about the camera leading to more photos or whatever they said.... They are setting the bar pretty high for themselves in marketing spin.

Doug

I think this will hit 2 markets here for folks.

Hate the wording pure but anyway. What it can do is simplify and get things out of the way for a much simpler ( better word) way of shooting. We all remember film cams and only dealt with metering focusing and getting the decisive moment.

2. Its retro and it does become a collector item of sorts and lets face it brings us old dogs back to a time when life was simpler and straight forward without the heavy technology of today. It also gives the younger generation to experiment without all the bells and whistles and maybe just maybe my hope is teach them to do everything in camera and learn how we did it with Kodachrome with very limited help technology wise to nail a image .

Brings back a thought when I was on the workshop a couple weeks ago shooting the Bass Harbor lighthouse. We went one afternoon and already very crowded on the small rock footprint to shoot . Maybe 30 shooters and I was perched higher on a pile of rocks looking back at them. All I could hear was the damn blasted machine gun shooting going off like crazy. Here I was shooting a tech cam and waited for the last second get the shot and pack up, go eat dinner. All that wasted effort and forgetting exactly why they where there was to wait for the light. Instead just shoot because they just don't get it at all and all there motor driven, AF , Photoshop and whatever was getting the image instead of there brains and art. A Credit to our workshop folks just waiting for the light like I was and get a great image in camera.

Nikon used the wrong wording. It should have been Simplify your Art.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks appreciate that. Technology should be meant to free your brain, not take over. I feel far too many people forget to use there head. We need to remember what we are really trying to do and that's create amazing images, you need your brain for that not a motor drive. LOL
 

greypilgrim

New member
I think this will hit 2 markets here for folks.

Hate the wording pure but anyway. What it can do is simplify and get things out of the way for a much simpler ( better word) way of shooting. We all remember film cams and only dealt with metering focusing and getting the decisive moment.

2. Its retro and it does become a collector item of sorts and lets face it brings us old dogs back to a time when life was simpler and straight forward without the heavy technology of today. It also gives the younger generation to experiment without all the bells and whistles and maybe just maybe my hope is teach them to do everything in camera and learn how we did it with Kodachrome with very limited help technology wise to nail a image .

Brings back a thought when I was on the workshop a couple weeks ago shooting the Bass Harbor lighthouse. We went one afternoon and already very crowded on the small rock footprint to shoot . Maybe 30 shooters and I was perched higher on a pile of rocks looking back at them. All I could hear was the damn blasted machine gun shooting going off like crazy. Here I was shooting a tech cam and waited for the last second get the shot and pack up, go eat dinner. All that wasted effort and forgetting exactly why they where there was to wait for the light. Instead just shoot because they just don't get it at all and all there motor driven, AF , Photoshop and whatever was getting the image instead of there brains and art. A Credit to our workshop folks just waiting for the light like I was and get a great image in camera.

Nikon used the wrong wording. It should have been Simplify your Art.
I can only hope you are right because that is the sort of camera I would hope for...

Simplify your Art :thumbs::thumbs:

My favorite machine gun style shooter was at a zoo. Guy walks up with tripod, long zoom lens and a canon body to the hippo pool. Sets up the tripod takes aim at the hippo ear sticking out of the water and fires multiple bursts. Then he packs up the tripod and heads off.

Doug
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
One thing about Nikon I noted all these years was they think more like photographers when designing cameras than engineers designing cameras. Let's hope they get this right. If they don't we all may pass on it.
 
M

mjr

Guest
I'm not sure I agree entirely you know, sure cameras are loaded with tech nowadays but these forums are full of people wanting more this, more that, tiltable screens, faster af higher iso etc. etc. and now it's all back to being simple!

We are all adults (I presume!) we don't have to use the tech on the cameras we have, my D800 does so many things but is never off M or A and I never use any of the stuff it can do, I don't bracket, don't autofocus, no face recognition, af tracking, nothing. It's my choice as it is yours with your camera.

For me, whatever this new camera is, it has to bring the image quality if it's going to cost that much, it must be better than a D800 or what's the point, just removing the extra guff isn't enough when you can just choose not to use it. Whist I appreciate Guy's sentiments, there is not one camera that can't be used in exactly the way he describes, it's not the camera that dictates how we shoot, it's us!

Anyway, hopefully they will announce something soon, I can't stand the rumour sites, there will be a camera, I can see it will be black and will have dials, there will be some lenses with it, urgh, life's too short.

Have a good day!

Mat
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I don't agree Mat. While for many tasks, I need all the gadget stuff, it does obstruct the view sometimes. This is obviously individual, but it's sooooo tempting to use a function just because it's there and it's so tempting to take 5 shots instead of concentrating on getting one right. People do, I do. It's also frustrating to manouver between menu items and even fn buttons that aren't needed for what I do sometimes. One of the cameras I love to use is the Panasonic L1, simply because of it's lack of functions.

The discussion about this will go on forever, but so many have been asking for this camera that I'm convinced the need is there, and I don't even think that it's very price sensitive. This is a camera which will be bought by photographers who are serious about their passion.

Hopefully, Nikon will be making enough profit out of this to keep it in production for a long time, like they do with the F6.
 
M

mjr

Guest
Ha, that's great, you're prepared to spend $3k on a camera that won't tempt you to muck about with fancy settings?! Maybe you should spend the money on one of Guy's courses instead, he'll obviously teach you to use your camera in a more considered way!

Seriously though, just removing all the crap isn't enough for this in my opinion, if the images don't have better DR or aren't cleaner then it's just not worth spending the money on.

As has been said before, the camera should allow you to just concentrate on taking the image so who cares whether it looks like a 50 year old camera or a modern one? I don't, I just want to stretch my limited abilities in to the best images i can muster.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Ha, that's great, you're prepared to spend $3k on a camera that won't tempt you to muck about with fancy settings?!
Yes, that's right, a camera that is designed for manual photography and preferably doesn't weigh one kilogram like a D700 or 800.
 
M

mjr

Guest
Well, I hope that you get what you want, although I still maintain pretty much all cameras are capable of manual photography if you have the discipline to use them that way.

The F6 weighs a kilo apparently, that's too heavy as well i take it? Maybe you need 3 shredded wheat for breakfast!
 

cam

Active member
One of my favourite digital cameras of all time was the Epson R-D1.

I know that there's no way that this Nikon will be as bare bones as it was (nor do I want to go back to 5MP, ISO 1600 cap) but, if it even comes close to what I consider the Epson's purity, the DF may be my first DSLR.

I'm excited because it is the *first* DSLR that has even peaked my interest, so Nikon has done well to capture the imagination of one that is not amongst the faithful.

Whether it lives up to what I hope it is, is another story.
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Well, I hope that you get what you want, although I still maintain pretty much all cameras are capable of manual photography if you have the discipline to use them that way.

The F6 weighs a kilo apparently, that's too heavy as well i take it? Maybe you need 3 shredded wheat for breakfast!
The F6 is too heavy, but has a shape and ergonomics that makes it much easier to handle than the D700. Obviously, it also lacks all the digital features that I hardly ever use anyway. There's been a discussion about that earlier this year.

Interestingly, a mint, used FM3A costs almost as much as a mint, used F6. The F6 is available new, but for a price that is 2-3 times that of a hardly used one. Again: some people prefer simplicity, at least part of the time, and the marketing of the DF is very similar to how Nikon marketed the FM3A.
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
The FM3A was a great camera, and my favourite hiking companion - the F90's stayed at home.... but of all I liked the F3HP the most - wonderful viewfinder - silky smooth rewind lever.
 
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