Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

[Vivek]

CameraDiner LIVE Show 4, Hasselblad Lunar, Sekonic, Litemaster, Zeiss, Sandisk, Three Legged Thing - YouTube

This video is VERY revealing. Paul Grange of Camera Diner who supports this Hasselblad project, presents such flawed logic in defense of it, that it boggles the mind. He blames the "media" for the backlash, trots out a few cheery-picked supportive comments by consumers to back up his own poor judgement, sucks up to Hasselblad, and never asks the hard questions that most anyone would have ... like the freaking price for one thing.

He's clearly going for hits on his site and isn't above prostituting himself to do it. Hope he goes down with the good ship Hasselblad.

The statement by Luca that he is "not very good at taking pictures, so instead likes to collect old cameras" is also revealing. So, by his own admission, he is nothing more than a collector, a fondler, a poser at heart. A collector who places form over function because he doesn't get what "function" actually means for any passionate photographer, novice, advanced enthusiasts, or pro.

A Hasselblad camera for everyman @ such a price-point is a non-sequitur. It is to exploit the tasteless newly rich that, like Luca, are amateur photographers in the worse sense of the word. Not the enthusiasts that made up Hasselblad's core non-professional buyer of past.

Here's somethings to consider about this whole project that to date haven't been addressed.

The NEX 7 is already aging by digital standards, it'll have a white beard by the time this camera gets out the door. Sony is already discounting the 5N, so it is likely that the 7 will follow. These guys don't get that those who buy this sort of stuff, are very conscience of the tech status aspect of gadgets ... who the hell would want a $2,000 iPhone 4 in a gold case now?

If the A99 is the base of their next project, how much will that cost? The NEX7 formula suggests at least 3X the price, so $8,500? Even 2X is almost $6,000. Really?

Who is going to service this toad? Sony? Hasselblad? Sony's service is less than stellar (trust me, I use Sony stuff), and anything involving any digital repair on a Hasselbld requires shipping it back to Sweden for an extended vacation from your gear bag. But hell, maybe the people who buy this camera won't even care if it works or not.

-Marc

(If you haven't guessed, I'm PISSED OFF!)

I like your version of the name "Grenge", a former Sony manager now an aspiring stand up comedian. He is easily impressed with everything he sees.

The tripod he is fascinated with, for example, many versions of them have been available from the far east for much better prices for sometime now.

 

[jonoslack]

Hi Jono

Sorry, it is an untested product. I own a NEX-7 - good camera (although I have used it far less since I got the Sigma DP2M - now *that* is a good camera!), but the Lunar may or may not be significantly better / different / worse. We simply don't know.

There are lots of things we don't KNOW (like whether it's going to rain this October) - but that doesn't mean we can't make a pretty fair guess based on the evidence in front of us. If Hassleblad were toting the improvements they were going to make, then one might be less prone to jump to conclusions.

. . . if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck . . . . . (or possibly, in this case, a lemon!)

 

[Vivek]

.. and they are reasonably sensible people, ..

Someone has to stand up for the poor SXXs.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Finally, something else to talk about in MFD photography rather than the D800! Medium-format isn't what it used to be...

Your right...Now we can talk about the Nikon D600, which just edged out the Phase One IQ180 in the sensor rating at DXO.

and it's the consumer model...

 

[etrigan63]

Marc,
your calculations are wrong. The NEX-7 to Lunar price conversion is

5.43 x NEX-7 price = Lunar price

I have already made my feelings known on the matter and the matter of Paul Genge is simply answered by looking at the man's pedigree. He's been drinking the Sony Kool-Aid for years and is probably under orders to promote this. I would not be surprised to discover that his "departure" from Sony is actually a way to make him look like a former well-connected insider offering sage advice to sway the public.

 

[pophoto]

There are lots of things we don't KNOW (like whether it's going to rain this October) - but that doesn't mean we can't make a pretty fair guess based on the evidence in front of us. If Hassleblad were toting the improvements they were going to make, then one might be less prone to jump to conclusions.

. . . if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck . . . . . (or possibly, in this case, a lemon!)

Is the glass half full or half empty? Clearly reasonable and sane people offering the same judgement expressed very differently, or just reasonably sane people... Okay, I'm just having some fun at your expense! Sorry and Thank you!

I'll express it the way I feel it, and that is I don't support the Lunar project and I don't want the Lunar project to succeed, not something I often feel or support the idea of, unless the core idea is beyond sense.

1) If the NEX camera they have inside is in fact really good, then I will just buy the Nex, because by extension the design of the body is grotesque, period.
2) If Hasselblad tweaked the camera to be better than the NEX equivalent, please see 1).
3) sorry, the company which was trying to sell me my dream as a fashion photographer is no more. Why does selling small ILC have anything to do with the rest of their business? I don't want to support a company who thinks of their camera as jewelry you hang around your neck, belonging to certain privilege class of society with little idea about photography or why that object hangs there! (Paraphrasing from earlier statements) Sorry this far worse than an Olympics sports photog caught with his lens cap on! Conclusion, the idea has NOTHING to do with photography! I will not support this.

 

[Shashin]

Hasselblad should have done this, although the images might show too much grain...

From DPreview and Photokina:

http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/2474653637/IMG_4581.JPG?v=1585

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Just how viable is medium format anyway with Canon rumoured to be about to launch a 46mp dslr. The problem Hasselblad and Phase One both have is their market is small, and probably shrinking. Leica and Hasselblad have both pimped out their brands to some extent attract more of the luxury good market.

And its a sensible move. There is a bigger and more resilient market for high end "designer" products than there is for professional medium format. I bet the Lunar will sell well in emerging markets and I think we should all hope it does - some of the profits can then be used to keep the pro end afloat.

 

[Vivek]

I bet the Lunar will sell well in emerging markets and I think we should all hope it does -

I sincerely hope the Lunar and the Lunar RX100, Lunar A99, etc never make it to the market to save cash for everyone.

It is going to be resounding failure in the "emerging markets".

 

[pophoto]

I sincerely hope the Lunar and the Lunar RX100, Lunar A99, etc never make it to the market to save cash for everyone.

It is going to be resounding failure in the "emerging markets".

I hate false markets and its usually a disaster for all! No one gains from this.

 

[malmac]

As a motorcyclist, I remember when the Harley Davidison brand was plonked on the tanks of Italian made Arramachi motorcycles in the mid 1970's.

The strategy did not work then and I doubt it will work for HB - but lets hope HB like Harley Davidson can be brought back from the brink of extinction (unlike Indian Motorcycles which tried the same sort of strategy and failed).

Don't own a Harley and don't want one, but one would find it hard to argue with their success.

Don't own a H5D, (Phase 1 owner) but would like to have a MF camera with that Tru Focus system and lots of the other useful functions on that camera.

Mal

 

[jonoslack]

Just how viable is medium format anyway with Canon rumoured to be about to launch a 46mp dslr. The problem Hasselblad and Phase One both have is their market is small, and probably shrinking. Leica and Hasselblad have both pimped out their brands to some extent attract more of the luxury good market.

And its a sensible move. There is a bigger and more resilient market for high end "designer" products than there is for professional medium format. I bet the Lunar will sell well in emerging markets and I think we should all hope it does - some of the profits can then be used to keep the pro end afloat.

Understanding luxury markets (as do Porsche and Leica) is NOT the same thing as buying in consumer goods from a mass market company and adding bling (as Hasselblad are doing). It really isn't.

it reminds me of the red leather Hermes Leicas of the early 2000's, but at least that was Leica core products.

The question of the future of MF is a different issue, but Phase seem to be looking good, and Leica seem to be increasingly confident about the S. I'm sure this isn't the way for Hasselblad to protect their excellent MF name.

Incidentally, I think the NEX7 is a fine camera (about to be replaced, but still a fine camera).

 

[Charles Wood]

In one of my former lives working as a product manager at a fairly prominent high end audio company, we had the distinct misfortune to be acquired by a large audio conglomerate that operated much like a venture capital company. They leveraged their purchase of us, loaded us with debt, immediately used some of our designs in their low end products. It never worked out. Large companies that grow by acquisition, and have a reputation as bottom feeders, tend to fall victim to the myth of economies in scale, consolidating the backroom operations, consolidating engineering, etc. That can be done but it can't consolidate the soul and spirit of a high end brand that has spent years developing the brand, technologies and customer relationships. Such 'marriages' almost always fail.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Understanding luxury markets (as do Porsche and Leica) is NOT the same thing as buying in consumer goods from a mass market company and adding bling (as Hasselblad are doing). It really isn't.
...

Incidentally, I think the NEX7 is a fine camera (about to be replaced, but still a fine camera).

You are missing the point, Jono. Really you are. We are not the target market - at least not the primary one. I'm not buying the Lunar (unless it turns out to be surprisingly great, which I doubt). The Lunar will sell in bucketloads in certain markets. Time wil tell, and Hassy need some other new ideas but the concept is sound. But my guess is the Lunar will be a success, leading to better products and more money for Hassy.

 

[fotografz]

Just how viable is medium format anyway with Canon rumoured to be about to launch a 46mp dslr. The problem Hasselblad and Phase One both have is their market is small, and probably shrinking. Leica and Hasselblad have both pimped out their brands to some extent attract more of the luxury good market.

And its a sensible move. There is a bigger and more resilient market for high end "designer" products than there is for professional medium format. I bet the Lunar will sell well in emerging markets and I think we should all hope it does - some of the profits can then be used to keep the pro end afloat.

Just how viable is 35mm DSLRs with the real possibility of a 36 meg NEX in future ? ... which would be pretty unviable since it has already been superseded by a 40 meg cell phone?

What makes anyone think, if successful with the Loony-toons camera, that they'd plow the profits back into MFD? After all, it is such an unviable format.

Hasselblad has never been successful at pimping out their cameras. They made a special edition stainless Steel H4D/40, kept production to 100, and still haven't sold them all. Bet they have a crate full of the gaudy Ferrari 40s also, but would never admit it.

Leica made a Titanium M9 that cost more than a MFD kit, and sold them all before even making them. Big difference. There is a built-in market for one, and none for the other.

We'll see I guess.

-Marc

 

[Shelby Lewis]

This whole situation makes me want to go shoot wet-plate, ha!

 

[jonoslack]

You are missing the point, Jono. Really you are. We are not the target market - at least not the primary one. I'm not buying the Lunar (unless it turns out to be surprisingly great, which I doubt). The Lunar will sell in bucketloads in certain markets. Time wil tell, and Hassy need some other new ideas but the concept is sound. But my guess is the Lunar will be a success, leading to better products and more money for Hassy.

I'm not missing the point - I completely understand we aren't the target market, and like you, I also suspect that it'll sell in bucket loads in some places (and that the profit margin will be large enough to make it very worthwhile).

But it won't help with sales of MF cameras (absolutely to the contrary), and as Marc suggests, it seems very unlikely that any financial returns will be ploughed back into high end technical products.

it might even be a success (Burberry springs to mind). It feels like the new management has decided to use the name to sell products . . . . rather than the quality of the products.

Mind you, I don't know why I'm arguing, I have no vested interest in Hassleblad, either one way or another, but I certainly hope that they survive and flourish. What I do know is that if I DID have a large investment, then right now I'd be rather worried about it.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

They won't put a dime back in to MF no matter how much they make. They will milk the cow as much as they can and **** right on the grass that feed them in the process.

 

[etrigan63]

They won't put a dime back in to MF no matter how much they make. They will milk the cow as much as they can and **** right on the grass that feed them in the process.

Guy, bad analogy.

****ing on the grass will fertilize it and make it grow faster. One of those Circle of Life things.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

ROTFLMAO. You get the idea though