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Thread: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I just got a chance to try the Ricoh GXR with the 50mm and zoom modules and the EVF in the luxury of my own home.

    Within 5 minutes I put it down and will not pick it up again. Why?

    - the autofocus is painfully slow and overshoots until settling in
    - the viewfinder/screen freezes when focusing
    - the viewfinder/screen freezes when taking a picture
    - manual focus is "fly by wire" - there's no mechanical connection to the lens, just electronic despite having a focus ring
    - the manual focus screen magnification is not high enough to tell if you're in focus

    I didn't even bother putting an SD card into it. I don't care how good the IQ is, I would throw this thing to the ground in frustration before attempting to adjust to it's massive shortcomings.

    It has one positive - the EVF is the highest res I have ever used.

    IMHO this camera is dead-on-arrival. It simply sucks.

  2. #2
    matmcdermott
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Wow, tell us what you really think about it...

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    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Thanks for your quick review, doesn't sound promising!

    Two quick questions:

    - You don't sound happy with the focus-by-wire. The m43 cameras actually focus-by-wire and do a wonderful job of it. I'm wondering if you have experience with them and find the GXR flawed in comparison or if you just hate the concept in general.

    - Just how low is the MF magnification? 5x?

    Thanks!

    Ken

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Yes, I have a Pana GH-1 and a GF-1 and they both manually focus very well. The Ricoh feels slow and unconnected and you end up overshooting badly in both directions when attempting to focus.

    I think the magnification is 5x.

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Personally, I find the Panny lenses a damn nuisance to focus manually. They need to change the algorithm so that faster turning will accelerate the focus process to get you into the ballpark, slowing down should give you the fine control. You have to turn the focus ring forever to do anything as it is, and it's never clear to me which way to turn, so you waste even more time.

    Cheers,

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Bradhusick,

    All of the things you identify as problems are true but it has grown on me despite its flaws. Some of these things can be fixed in firmware although I don't know whether Ricoh will fix them or not. I have fallen in love with the user interface and the image IQ. As a result I have decided to keep the Ricoh and sell my GF1 kit you can see it here (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...600#post174600).

    By the way, I don't think the MF magnification is 5X, I think it is more like 1.7X (comparing the magnified view to the photo review after taking the shot and magnifying it to the same size on screen)

    Remove the AF issues and everything else about the camera is quick and using it for zone focusing is very good and fast.
    V/r John

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Wow, John, that is a bold move selling the GF1! I too am falling for the GXR as I learn more about its capabilities, but I still plan to keep the E-P2 (and use it almost exclusively with the Panasonic 20/1.7). The GXR definitely has the Ricoh spirit and I love it.

    Brad, the GXR (with the A12 unit) does have a few "beta" qualities, but I can guarantee you that there is magic in that sensor/lens combination. I, too, have been frustrated with it, but as I learn more about its character I'm enjoying it more and more. The Sigmas are more frustrating than the GXR and I have a lot more faith that Ricoh will improve the camera than Sigma will improve the DP series.

    But I'm also a long-time Ricoh GRD shooter, a camera which is still perhaps my favorite even with its limitations. I know and like the Ricoh software and hardware UIs and the way the cameras handle. I may be more willing than many others to give the GXR/A12 a chance. I've had frustration with it, mostly around focus, but in the end I'm getting some magical results from it and for those pictures I'm willing to accept a few early adopter tradeoffs.

    Still, I don't think your being fair to yourself by passing judgement so quickly. Since you have the camera there right now why don't you take it through a few more paces before returning it. Put a card in it and go for a few photo walks. You may not grow to like it, but at least you gave it a fair shot.

    From what I can tell so far the GXR/A12 excels at macro and short distance subjects. (The fact that it is a macro lens contributes to some percentage of its focusing limitations. In this spirit it behaves a lot like my Olympus 50mm macro lens.) It does not have IS so you have to more carefully manage ISO and speed when handholding. The lens is very sharp, high ISO performance is very clean, and there is wide dynamic range. It renders beautiful B&W pictures. In fact, it made me realize how limited my 4/3, m4/3 cameras have been in dynamic range and B&W tonal range. If you know what a Foveon B&W image looks like then think of the GXR/A12 as along the same lines. The GXR/A12 is lighter and more comfortable to hold that the E-P2 (although I enjoy the handling of the E-P2 as well.

    Between m4/3s, the GXR, Sigmas, Leica X1, upcoming Samsung NX and whatever appears on the camera horizon this year we certainly have it good! We can throw a selection of lightweight, very high quality camera gear into a small bag and capture all kinds of wonderful imagery. Good all around

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    It may be informative to this thread to let you know that I am a people and street shooter. The GXR may be good for still-life and landscapes, but it sucks at the things I take pictures of. I suppose if you have all day and the subject doesn't move, you might like the photos it takes.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Mitchall (on DPReview.com and elsewhere) has been working through using the GXR/A12 as a street camera. You can check out his comments in the Ricoh forum. He has been working with the snap focus mode, which works really well on the GRD3, but with the larger sensor a more limited depth of field of the A12 it gets more challenging to use.

    Since the A12 is also a macro lens, and based on my experience with it, I don't believe it can be recommended as a street shooter. Perhaps if they release a wider, non-macro, potentially faster prime unit (with a large sensor) then it would be different. That's what I'm looking for in the future.

    Your original post came across as really negative when in fact the camera did not work for your specific needs. That does not mean that the camera (or sensor/lens unit to be specific) sucks for everyone in all cases. I've heard that the A12 is aimed primarily at the Japanese market where macro is huge, and where Ricoh has a big following. Presumably, the GXR had to have a macro option to encourage early adopters. The GRD has always had it, the GX100/200 had it. It's part of being a Ricoh today. The A12 is not aimed at the street shooter and it should not be judged solely on that need.

    The best street shooter I've experienced was my Zeiss Ikon ranegfinder. Talk about focusing issues

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Brad, I'm not sure what I would call myself but people shooting is what I prefer. When you set up the GXR for ZF (which is easy to do because you have both a distance and DOF scale) you can capture people shots very quickly and they are as sharp or sharper than the GF1 images in many cases. The reason for this is that as fast as the GF1 AF is, when people are moving (especially coming toward you) it can't quite keep up therefore even though it was in focus at the moment you start to take the image the DOF may be shallow and by the time your finger depresses the shutter and the image is taken the subjects have moved out of the plane of focus. With ZF you are prefocused on a plane a fixed distance from the camera with a known DOF and you snap the image just as the subjects are entering the focus plane. You have some latitude due to your DOF and you will wind up with more in focus subjects. The GF1 takes and average of 400 msec to focus and capture and image. With ZF you can shoot at around 150 msec which is more than twice as fast.
    V/r John

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I just saw this post which may be informative and helpful.

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=34253784

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    You can buy a Canon XSi with a 50mm f/1.8 AF lens for $499 brand new. That's 35% the price of the GXR/50 and twice the camera.

    When I shoot with my Leica I shoot wide open and manually focus - quickly. Stopping down Leica lenses and zone focusing makes no sense to me.

    The GXR fails totally at manual focusing and AF is no good, so it's still a loser for my needs. Don't get me wrong - I am not a Ricoh hater - just a GXR hater. If they release a new camera in the future that looks promising I will try it, but I can't shoot with a future camera. I suppose if you're a macro junkie, then go for it. My original post sounded negative because it was negative. Anybody considering this camera for needs similar to mine should know this. The Panasonic GF-1 with 20/1.7 is far superior for these uses. It's not even close.

    John, if it works for you that's great - happy shooting. I am glad we have choices.
    Last edited by bradhusick; 14th January 2010 at 18:38.

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    It's kind of funny. The things you are complaining about here are even worse with the Leica X1 and yet the Leica fans are drooling to get there hands on it. It has very slow AF, really really slow playback, really slow write times and manual focusing is even more difficult and zone focusing is virtually impossible and it costs twice as much again. Of course it does have the red dot that make all photos it produces better than any other camera ever made.

    As for the Canon XSI, I'm sure it is a great camera but I don't want an SLR for its size, weight and the way people react to them.
    V/r John

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Yup. I canceled my X1 order for those reasons. Nobody has cracked the nut on really small, large sensor cameras yet. I have tried nearly all of them.

    Have you ever tried a Canon Rebel with a 50mm f/1.8 lens or a 24mm f/2.8? It's pretty small and light and the lens is not that threatening. Try one sometime. It's still an SLR and it still has a 1.6x mag factor working against it, but it's really responsive!

    If I need AF I am going to rely on the GF-1/GH-1 for now.

    Cheers.

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Yes, I owned the Nikon D90. The D90 is a really responsive and great camera. I had one problem with it that I could not overcome. Every time I tried to take it out with my wife and I anywhere her immediate response was; "Do you have to bring that big thing with us?" When I would insist the problem became, OK where do I put this and all of the stuff that seems to go with it when we sit down to eat or try to do anything. With a small camera it is here, let me stick it in my purse so you can have it when you need it.
    V/r John

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Not sure I would sell off the whole GF1 kit that quickly. I can't imagine you only using zone focus with this camera and not going crazy. The Ricoh UI is great and the lens sensor combo is supposed to be quite nice but until they work out some kinks it seems like something that would get exasperating to use.

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Terry, it is with great trepidation that I venture down this path. I seem to like torturing myself by being on the bleeding edge of technology. To some degree I am trusting what other Ricoh owners have said about the company and its ability to respond to issues such as the ones that have been identified by me and others. Actually, one of the factors is the smaller sensor zoom and its small size that I can put on the same body when all I want is a point and shoot to take to a casual affair and capture some memories with friends rather than serious shooting. With the S10 module on the camera it becomes a package about the size of the G11, but slightly thinner, and not quite as high but with better IQ (from what I have seen) and much better ergonomics and an EVF when I want or need one. Additionally, sooner or later (I hope sooner but probably later) they will introduce a wide angle pancake lens package with the APS-C sensor and it will probably be better in many ways, even to possibly having a better sensor. So it is a risk and I can't justify having two cameras around (well that isn't exactly true as I also have one of the waterproof P&Ss for use at the beach and underwater). Actually, I should have said relatively expensive cameras.
    V/r John

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I received my GXR with A12 module yesterday from Popflash. Body and lens are offered on ebay for some USD 1187 and bing.com allows to benefit from a 8% cash back, (i.e. net of about USD 1100, as a comparison to the X1price). I have no intentions to jump to a conclusion on the GXR, but I like what I see so far, all the warts aside barjohn has discussed in his posts. IQ seems stellar, but I'll know more after the weekend. UI is Ricoh at its best. If you use any of its GRD or GX cameras you won't read the manual.
    I won't sell the EP2, which I consider excellent on its own. But I might consider letting the M8 go for the GXR. The latter could play the role of a digital CL, if the right lens modules will be available soon and firmware updates address some of the shortcomings.
    Last edited by retow; 15th January 2010 at 02:56.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Brad, Thanks for your post! Simply one of the best (if not the best) I have read.

    Up to the point with straight forward conclusions.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Yes, I have a Pana GH-1 and a GF-1 and they both manually focus very well. The Ricoh feels slow and unconnected and you end up overshooting badly in both directions when attempting to focus.

    I think the magnification is 5x.
    That is interesting, I sold the GF1, because I considered mf a pain in the neck with it, and zone focusing :. G1 or EP2 are much better for mf, with the Oly the winner in my book, because of IBIS. Zone focusing with any of the mft, not my cup of tea.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Brad, Thanks for your post! Simply one of the best (if not the best) I have read.

    Up to the point with straight forward conclusions.
    Thanks! I know it can rub some people the wrong way, but I call 'em like I see 'em. I am equally ready to heap praise on a great product.

    Keep shooting,
    Brad

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Last night I got caught up in comparing the GXR to the E-P2 and DP2. In terms of holistic IQ in the shots that I took I was reminded just how good the DP2 is. I converted several images to B&W from each camera and the DP2 images all had the best detail with a film-like feel and dimensionality. Very pleasing. The GXR was very close behind, but in its own way just as interesting. The E-P2 images were a very close third, slightly lacking in detail and dynamic range, and interestingess/engagement factor. The GXR DNGs seem to be much more workable than the E-P2 ORFs. I used RAW Developer for GXR and E-P2 processing and SPP for the DP2 processing. I used base ISO in each camera.

    In absolute terms these cameras are all great cameras and all take great pictures. They each have their pros and cons.

    A few more notes in case they are informative...

    • The GXR EVF is slightly better than the E-P2 EVF. They are both good. The E-P2 EVF is easier to use since both shooting and playback are enabled at the same time. On the GXR you have to enable using the EVF for shooting and playback separately. However, as I was using it this made sense because when reviewing images I tended to want to use the LCD instead of the EVF.
    • The manual focus zoom is much easier to use on the E-P2 than the GXR. The GXR zoom square does not zoom in close enough. On the E-P2 I wish there was a way to quickly enable/disable the focus zoom. At times I want to maintain 100% view for rough zooming, then enable focus zoom for fine tuning.
    • Auto balance in difficult lighting was more accurate on the GXR.
    • The GXR feels slightly more compact, lighter and tighter than the E-P2. The DP2 feels flimsy and plasticky in comparison to both, really disappointing. Take that Foveon sensor back from Sigma and put it into a better camera body!
    • Accurate color in the RAW files seemed easier to achieve on the GXR. The DP2 is still a bear to get "accurate" color and white balance. But of course color depends on the RAW processor.
    • Focus on the GXR is indeed too slow. I hope they correct this to the extent they can with software in the next software update.


    In reviewing some color shots from over the weekend the GXR pictures have real presence and clarity. Very beautiful.

    I have not ordered any prints from the GXR yet (my own printer is currently out of service). Prints from the E-P2 have been spectacular.

    If the GXR system ended with the A12 I'd be happy because I have always desired a large sensor "GRD" and for better or worse I essentially have one. However, if they can expand the line to include large sensor, fast, wide (non macro) primes (from 21mm to 35mm) I think the system will be a real winner.

    Through this exercise I'm coming to learn more about the limitations of the 4/3rds sensor. I love the proportions, and in most cases it is not an issue, and for most people it's all they need, but for my more serious work I feel like I'm reaching its limitations. Might be time to look into something along the lines of the Sony full-frame cameras widely acknowledged for their wide dynamic range and detail for serious landscape or still life work. Still, I have a deep love for my serious compacts!
    Last edited by Terry; 15th January 2010 at 12:29.

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I have carefully listed issues I have identified in the GXR and they have been posted to the Ricoh forums in hope that Ricoh will take notice and fix these items.

    Andy, you can set teh GXR to operate like the GF1/EP2 and playback the image in the EVF when you press the play button. It is a menu selectable item. The default is for playback (not review which does show in the EVF for the time set for review) to the LCD even though you are using the EVF for composition (go to the wrench screen and select "Playback to" menu item).

    My list of issues with the GXR/A12:

    Auto Focus Issues:
    1. Slow spot mode auto focus in normal room light level, reaches acceptable though not GF1 speeds as light level increases (avg. full press AF speed =1.08sec) (GF1 avg. full press AF speed =0.36sec with 20mm f1.7 lens, much faster with 14mm-45mm zoom)
    2. Multi-autofocus is so slow it is almost unusable except for still life (Avg. focus speed 1.39sec)
    3. Image in the EVF & LCD freezes during AF then jumps to a new position when focus is achieved
    4. Low light level for focus assist light to come on is set too low resulting in inability to lock focus in conditions that are brighter than conditions in which the light turns on and auto focus is achieved

    Manual Focus Issues:
    1. Center magnify is insufficient and needs to be either made adjustable and set in a menu (like one button playback magnify) or have two steps 5X and 10X
    2. Focus ring response is jumpy and moves in click steps rather than in a smooth continuous motion and the lens response lags the physical change causing focus to be missed as one overshoots the focus point and then on return undershoots the focus point
    3. In full manual mode the image brightness on the LCD or EVF varies with the exposure setting making manual focus in low light difficult; this may be by design to show the user what the exposure looks like but there needs to be a simple override during manual focusing such as when turning the focus ring it should automatically brighten the image to assist with focusing

    Other Issues:
    1. Screen leaves live view after shutter release for about 1.9sec. This results in a blank screen for the 2 seconds or if image review is on and set to less than 2 seconds, the image is frozen for the period of review less than the blank time
    2. If reviewing an image (playback), a full press of the shutter takes it out of playback but does not fire a shot in auto focus or manual mode (the GF1 will focus and fire the shutter)
    3. When auto flash mode is selected the TTL feature does not seem to function properly and images either over or under expose

    Despite these issues, many I expect will be addressed, it is an excellent camera, especially in ZF mode.
    V/r John

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    This is completely off topic, but am I alone in finding the black bulleted text almost unreadable? Mods: can this not be changed to a more readable color?

    Cheers,

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Despite these issues, many I expect will be addressed, it is an excellent camera, especially in ZF mode.


    John, Seriously, what have you got against the GXR?!

    BTW, I searched everywhere and I could not find any information on the "ZF mode" in which you think this camera is excellent.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Sorry, when I created the list it turned the list text to black. I'm logged in but no longer have access to an "edit your post" button to change it. It is hard to read.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    John, Seriously, what have you got against the GXR?!

    BTW, I searched everywhere and I could not find any information on the "ZF mode" in which you think this camera is excellent.
    I tred to switch the color for you but I couldn't get it to work will play around with it again and see what I can do.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I tred to switch the color for you but I couldn't get it to work will play around with it again and see what I can do.
    No disrespect to Andrewteee or John-

    Terry, As I posted, Brad's succinct post did it for me.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I'm so confused.....Vivek, I meant to quote Andrews post about the colors on his list but I completely messed up. I will leave well enough alone now and STOP trying to moderate

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Vivek,

    I think Terry was replying to my post just above the one she quoted. I was complaining about the bulleted text being too dark.

    Cheers,

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    John, Seriously, what have you got against the GXR?!

    BTW, I searched everywhere and I could not find any information on the "ZF mode" in which you think this camera is excellent.
    Vivek, I have nothing against the GXR or any other camera. They all have their flaws and their beauty marks. There are a ton of folks here and on LUF that will buy an X1 and it has all of the issues above and more in that it is really really slow to provide an image for playback and the way to zone focus with it is to first put the camera in auto focus, then focus on an object a known distance from the camera, then while holding a lock on the focus switch to manual focus and then shoot objects that are at the known distance while estimating the DOF. That camera costs almost twice as much.

    ZF is short hand for zone focusing which is accomplished via at least 3 different ways. One is to put the camera in fully manual mode and set the aperture and shutter speed and then manual focusing the camera using the distance scale with the depth of field indication. Another is to set the camera to aperture priority and set the aperture to f5.6 or higher and use the distance/DOF scale and a third is to use either fully manual or aperture priority and select snap focus and pre select the distance to be used from the fixed distances available.
    Last edited by barjohn; 15th January 2010 at 14:40.
    V/r John

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    John,
    Your list of issues with the GXR is a nice more detailed explanation of the problems I found too with this camera.

    Don't underestimate the people on this forum. The X1 has many problems and we will all speak up loudly about them. It's important to develop a good relationship with your camera dealer so you can identify these problems without risking thousands of dollars.

    I hope Ricoh fixes the GXR, but I am not holding my breath (or my credit card) for them.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Brad, Where have you been hiding? You are not only eloquent but very concise.

    John, Thanks for elaborating on ZF.

  34. #34
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Hello

    On a recent trip to Japan I tried out the
    GXR in Bic Camera.

    It is a nice camera body, well made and solid feeling.
    But the usability is awful.

    The AF is is at least 2sec on the 33mm lens, which is
    pretty bad for anything that moves.
    The MF is sluggish and not nice.

    Much more interesting were the Limited edition Pentax pancake
    lenses :-), very slim indeed, and made of metal not plastic.


    OTT Japan Camera Notes:-

    In the camera dept of the shop, the Panasonic "G" section and EP2
    were very very busy.
    Most of the DSLR areas were really quiet.

    I went to Ueno Zoo [Big zoo in Tokyo] on a Sunday, which was busy.
    I spent more time looking at the cameras people had, than the animals.
    Approx 60% of people had DSLRs, of which 90% were Canon the rest were
    Nikon [no Sony, no other brand at all I saw]
    The rest of the people had Point&shoot cameras, and mobiles.
    But I saw one guy with a Ricoh GXR !

    -jKK

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I have carefully measured AF performance and it is not 2 seconds except under certain low light conditions.

    Under normal room light conditions, the average measure spot AF speed was 1.08 seconds and the multi-point AF speed was 1.39 seconds for the GXR/A12. It is as fast as .5 seconds in bright daylight. And it can be reasonably fast (not measured) in low light that is low enough to turn on the focus assist lamp. There is a gap in range between the room light level and the level were the AF assist lamp lights that is very slow and I'm not sure why the software doesn't sense this level and turn on the lamp when it is struggling. I have not taken the time to measure the actual EV level gap.
    V/r John

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Since the Ricoh GRD is one of my all time favorite cameras (though the 28mm EFoV lens is a little too wide for me), I've got my fingers crossed that Ricoh are planning to ship a module with an APS-C sensor together with a 40mm EFoV lens. But I'm not holding my breath.

    As for the black bullet points, they're explained in this post:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=14

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I have carefully measured AF performance and it is not 2 seconds except under certain low light conditions.

    Under normal room light conditions, the average measure spot AF speed was 1.08 seconds and the multi-point AF speed was 1.39 seconds for the GXR/A12. It is as fast as .5 seconds in bright daylight. And it can be reasonably fast (not measured) in low light that is low enough to turn on the focus assist lamp. There is a gap in range between the room light level and the level were the AF assist lamp lights that is very slow and I'm not sure why the software doesn't sense this level and turn on the lamp when it is struggling. I have not taken the time to measure the actual EV level gap.
    John, thanks for your comprehensive list of strength and weaknesses of the GXR. I used mine extensively yesterday in NYC and fully agree with your conclusions. The most annoying issue, which really screams for immediate firmware upgrade is the AF hunting . Generally Af is only satisfactory in contrasty conditions, and reasonably fast in bright daylight. I.e. AF performance and speed need improvement as well, the sooner the better. ZF works like a charm and the snap mode is very usefull as well. Ergonomics, user interface and build quality are excellent, simply Ricoh. And the best is the IQ, a result of file and lens quality, including smooth oof rendering.
    If Ricoh can get the AF issue fixed asap, a clear winner for me.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    If GXR is supposed to compete with m4/3rds and Samsung NX, they would be very happy to read this.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If GXR is supposed to compete with m4/3rds and Samsung NX, they would be very happy to read this.
    We have to be tough on them, Pana or Oly mft offer pretty well rounded products, including lenses, and set the bar quite high

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Totally agree!

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    try chewing a little more slowly

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    It may be informative to this thread to let you know that I am a people and street shooter. The GXR may be good for still-life and landscapes, but it sucks at the things I take pictures of. I suppose if you have all day and the subject doesn't move, you might like the photos it takes.
    okay... i totally understand it is NOT for you and your peeves about the camera are legit for using the camera for only 5 minutes...

    however, in using the camera for a longer period of time, i did not have an issue using it for people/street photos -- things I take pics of as well. i kept it pretty much in Manual focus the whole time, Shutter Priority or full Manual for exposure... in a little bit of time, it became second nature and i was able t get the shots i wanted.

    i am not dissing your opinion. i am simply stating that this camera should not be immediately dismissed if street is the goal... granted, a wider lens, non-macro, faster shutter would be better, but this is not chopped liver.

    i ended up not getting one because i shoot this equivalent all the time on my M8 and the 35 Lux is superior to the A12 in every way. as i already own this combo, the GXR/A12 would be redundant even though i adore the silence. still, i was quite entranced by the camera.... not perfect, no, but a damned good start.

    i look forward to the time they start coming out with modules that fit my needs.

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    Re: try chewing a little more slowly

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    okay... i totally understand it is NOT for you and your peeves about the camera are legit for using the camera for only 5 minutes...

    however, in using the camera for a longer period of time, i did not have an issue using it for people/street photos -- things I take pics of as well. i kept it pretty much in Manual focus the whole time, Shutter Priority or full Manual for exposure... in a little bit of time, it became second nature and i was able t get the shots i wanted.

    i am not dissing your opinion. i am simply stating that this camera should not be immediately dismissed if street is the goal... granted, a wider lens, non-macro, faster shutter would be better, but this is not chopped liver.

    i ended up not getting one because i shoot this equivalent all the time on my M8 and the 35 Lux is superior to the A12 in every way. as i already own this combo, the GXR/A12 would be redundant even though i adore the silence. still, i was quite entranced by the camera.... not perfect, no, but a damned good start.

    i look forward to the time they start coming out with modules that fit my needs.
    But the GXr has one sweet sensor......... No stranger to pleasing high iso performance (not meant as M8 bashing use one since 3 years, but....)
    Last edited by retow; 18th January 2010 at 04:10.

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    Re: try chewing a little more slowly

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    But the GXr has one sweet sensor......... No stranger to pleasing high iso performance (not meant as M8 bashing use one since 3 years, but....)
    and i don't take it as such... i, too, think the GXR is sweet and the high ISO quite stunning. (did i also mention how much i love the silence???)

    i was just giving my opinion as someone who really enjoyed using the camera for street pics but decided to decline as it wasn't something i needed...

    truth be told, in almost every instance i would pick up the M8 instead if i had both. and, although the GXR is much smaller than expected (beautifully sized, IMO), with the A12 it is too large to carry along as a secondary camera for the times i might need high ISO or silence. if i'm out into the night, i'll throw the Nocti in my bag.

    if Ricoh comes out with a fast 28 (like the GRDIII) with a large sensor i will, most probably, be the first in line

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Again, no need to be "dissing" Brad's succinct post.

    What he concluded in 5 or 6 sentences is being elaborated by many. I see more negatives about the GXR for one reason or other than a compelling case for its existence or a possible purchase.

    Brad has already expressed the famous last words on it.

  45. #45
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Thank you, Vivek.

    Whenever I review a new product from a company with a good track record and I encounter something that's amiss, I try to seek a logical explanation of the situation. Perhaps there were good reasons why a company made the decisions it did. For many years I was a product manager in the computer software industry, so this is part of the process in designing and releasing products.

    When I found the Ricoh GXR autofocus to be very slow I thought perhaps this camera was designed for taking photos of inanimate objects such as still-life and landscape and macro. When I encountered the unusable manual focus mode, I was truly confused as this defeats the purpose I believed the camera was designed to fulfill.

    At this point without talking directly to Ricoh, I can only assume that the product managers decided that the release date was more important than the focusing performance of the camera. Making a date-driven decision is usually based on facing stiff competition and in this case I believe the micro-four-thirds cameras represent that competition.

    The good news in most situations like this is that good companies like Ricoh often fix the shortcomings of the first release in the course of time. If they do this quickly their potential customer base will give them another try. If they take too long the market will have moved beyond them and their reentry will be extremely difficult.

    As my wife the former attorney used to tell her clients about her work, "Good, fast, cheap... pick two."

    Cheers.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    There has been a lot of talk in this thread. Maybe, maybe too much talk. How about some pictures! I know a lot of folks have been anxious to see real-world examples of GXR/A12 pictures, myself included. This past weekend I took the camera for a photo walk in Berkeley's Tilden Park to put it through some paces.

    These are DNGs converted in RAW Developer. Please keep in mind that these are part of an ongoing project to capture and document a particular trail in the park, and many are dark, underexposed images, a common theme in my work. Meaning, these are "real-world" shots for me, not camera test shots.

    A few of them are Sigma DP2 shots (the ones with the 3/2 ratio), the rest are the GXR/A12.

    On to the pictures...

  47. #47
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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Andrew, thanks for posting pics. Perhaps we should have these in a "Fun with GXR" thread. This thread was simply meant to convey my quick impressions of the camera.

    Also, please don't strip out all the EXIF data - the data help us understand the photos better.

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    When I export out of RAW Developer I guess it does not include the EXIF data. I'm sure it has that as an option. At any rate, when posting pics to my site I'm not concerned with technical attributes, just the picture itself. For forum postings I'll try to remember to export a version with EXIF data intact.

    I agree with you on a GXR picture thread, but sometimes when threads get very serious I think that as photographers we need to remind ourselves that at some point it's all about the imagery and not so much about the words : )

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    I agree. Except when the imagery is the picture of Benjamin Franklin on the twenty one-hundred-dollar bills Ricoh wants for the camera, two lenses and EVF! Then I want ALL the info I can get!

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    Re: My Ricoh GXR taste test...

    Putting the sensor on the lens killed it for alot of people. If they make the sensor better in a year, you need to buy the same lens again? Boy, what a marketing stratergy in their favor<G> I for one appreciate the quick, concise "review" Brad gave us, no fluff, all substance.

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