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View Full Version : GRD2 pictures from Huahin Market at ISO400 and 800



Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 04:09
The following pictures were taken with the GRD2 at ISO 400 and 800 at Huahin, a seaside resort two hours by car south of Bangkok. You can see the whole series of 32 pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157603644012922/show/


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2320/2171466722_7e57c0bb09_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2171466226_5e4ef8ae7b_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2397/2171468388_e65f62152f_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2170676467_87c8b39699_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2358/2170677275_804a7d0881_o.jpg


As I've stated previously ISO 400 is my favourite speed on the GRD2, but I also like ISO 800 a lot on this camera. You can see ISO 800 pictures with the GRD — the ones at the Tsukiji fish market, while the other Tokyo pictures are taken at ISO 400 on the GX100 — here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157601877119712/show/

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1[email protected]/

Player
6th January 2008, 06:16
Great work Mitch! Spectacular really.

ISO 800 looks like the sweet spot between grain and noiselessness. GRD-like.

And thanks for the inspiration!

helenhill
6th January 2008, 10:37
PLAYER :
I LOVE that concept
between Grain and Noiselessness
the Perfect neither neither

Player
6th January 2008, 12:34
Thanks helenhill, it's kind of "Zen-like," like Mitch's photography.

Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 14:10
Thanks for the kind words, Player.

Regarding the Zen reference, these are all shot using the LCD for framing, that is, just to establish, roughly, the edges of the picture but looking at the subject when pressing the shutter. I feel that this method allows one to see and react better than using a viewfinder and has allowed me to have a looser, more fluid and direct style than I was able to achieve with my M6. Also, it doesn't hurt to read "Zen in the Art of Archery"...

I walked around the market area for about an hour and shot 65 pictures and found that I had 32 that I wanted to print. This 1 out 2 hit ratio is enormous for me as usually the best I achieve, on the average, is 1 out 10 or 15. It seems to me that sometimes one is just in the right state of mind to shoot.

Another thing worth mentioning is that the 28mm EFOV is very good for this type of photography. Before getting the original GRD 18 months ago I had barely used a 28mm lens and was skeptical about this focal length; but I was open to it because I knew that the great Japanese photographer, and of my favourites, Moriyama Daido, used this, together with 21mm, almost exclusively.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Maggie O
6th January 2008, 14:39
The composition is spot-on, as always Mitch, on these photos and you've captured some genuine human energy in all of them. That said, they seem a little softer than your usual style. I don't know if it's motion blur or lens blur, but they look more like the Caplio than the GRD.

helenhill
6th January 2008, 14:53
Mitch:
I did indeed forget to mention in my post to PLAYER
that your work is quite FAB
you have elevated the small sensor cameras into the World of Art
My two favorite shots are in your 'PARIS' series
The man smoking a cigarette in a cafe with the Pig Painting behind him
and
The Frame Shop with a woman passing by
All the Best

Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 15:01
Thanks, Maggie.

You think they're really softer than the GRD pictures, or it it just the finer grain? Here's one of my GRD ISO800 pictures for comparison:


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/1296538185_080a677b99_o.jpg


—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 15:04
Mitch:
I did indeed forget to mention in my post to PLAYER
that your work is quite FAB
you have elevated the small sensor cameras into the World of Art
My two favorite shots are in your 'PARIS' series
The man smoking a cigarette in a cafe with the Pig Painting behind him
and
The Frame Shop with a woman passing by
All the BestThanks, Helen.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

cam
6th January 2008, 15:23
i kind of agree with Maggie... all except for the middle one which is almost GRD-like and is absolutely spectacular.

Maggie O
6th January 2008, 16:24
There's definitely less snap to the new pix, especially compared to the photo you posted, Mitch. I've noticed that grain adds something like local contrast to your photos, giving them a depth that really draws the viewer in, but that last batch seems, in comparison, to be drawn on a flatter plane.

You're still working in LightZone, yes? Maybe adding some Midtone Sharpening to the pix will help bring out the grain- it seems to do that with my photos.

Sean_Reid
6th January 2008, 16:32
Thanks, Maggie.

You think they're really softer than the GRD pictures, or it it just the finer grain? Here's one of my GRD ISO800 pictures for comparison:

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Hi Mitch,

I think you're spot on. They're not softer, there's just less noise/grain. We're seeing more of the subject and less of the camera.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean_Reid
6th January 2008, 16:34
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2170676467_87c8b39699_o.jpg

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

That woman in the lower left corner, she's really good.

Cheers,

Sean

Auni
6th January 2008, 20:30
Mitch:

I saw your pictures before Christmas over on the the other forum and I resonated with the Tri-x/D76 aspect of them. They brought back to me the raw emotion of the photography of my youth... pushing the film and developing the grain to paint a coarseness onto the paper, to better convey emotions of people that are neither processed or polished in real life.

Because of your pictures I bought the Ricoh GRII and have been rediscovering photographic art. This camera is a wonderful artistic tool that can not be adequately measured by any subjective metric. You either get this camera or you don't.

Auni

Auni
6th January 2008, 20:44
Mitch:

And, thank you so much.

Auni

Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 21:40
Thanks for the kind words, Auni. Hope you enjoy the camera.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
6th January 2008, 22:03
...I think you're spot on. They're not softer, there's just less noise/grain. We're seeing more of the subject and less of the camera...Yes, Sean, but the question is whether we want to see more of the camera — in this case the GRD. But, seriously, that is the issue that I keep on cogitating: whether I want more of the original GRD look, which of course I could try to simulate in PP. However, I'm quite pleased with the Huahin Market series of pictures. Nevertheless...

Maggie, I have done some overall as well as some mid-tone sharpening already in LightZone already. What I do notice is that the TIFF files have some more grain to them than than the JPGs converted in LightZone. When I get back to Bangkok tomorrow I'll have to see how the prints come out.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

cam
6th January 2008, 23:18
Yes, Sean, but the question is whether we want to see more of the camera — in this case the GRD. But, seriously, that is the issue that I keep on cogitating: whether I want more of the original GRD look, which of course I could try to simulate in PP. However, I'm quite pleased with the Huahin Market series of pictures. Nevertheless...

Maggie, I have done some overall as well as some mid-tone sharpening already in LightZone already. What I do notice is that the TIFF files have some more grain to them than than the JPGs converted in LightZone. When I get back to Bangkok tomorrow I'll have to see how the prints come out.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

i hope you share what your conclusions are with the prints. your photographs, as always, are stunning. but i do miss the bite, the textures you were able to bring out from the original. perhaps smooth is a better word than soft? your images and style have en edge to them that i think was enhanced by the grain. i never felt that the camera was overpowering them, rather that you were the maestro.

this is not being critical of the GRDII, it's a brilliant camera. i simply miss the edginess you got with the original. again, i'm talking about enhancement. but that is, perhaps, a personal preference of mine (obviously not Sean's) and i think you'll see it in the prints... i commented (as i'm sure Maggie did) because i know you've been grappling with this issue.

Mitch Alland
7th January 2008, 01:27
Cam, I agree. I'll let you know how the prints come out. But see below.

Maggie, after my last posting I went back and looked at my LightZone "stack of tools" for the GRD (Tsukiji) picture above and found that I had done the mid-tone enhancement of USM 20/50/0 two times, which is quite brutal as it also heightens the highest tones and darkens the lowest tones a bit; but it obviously works for that picture. I'm going to go back and add this extra adjustment to the five pictures above to see the results. When I replace the five JPGs on flickr I don't know whether it will make the pictures above disappear or whether it will also replace them here. If the latter I'll repost them below.

I've had this discussion on not wanting an "exquisite" look now a couple with Jim Nachtway in Bangkok: he has a similar view and also appreciates Moriyama Daido, but obviously is not as much having the latter's expressionist look as I am.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
7th January 2008, 02:57
The pictures updated from flickr, but, not having a comparison, I'm not sure you can notice a difference.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Sean_Reid
7th January 2008, 03:16
i simply miss the edginess you got with the original. again, i'm talking about enhancement. but that is, perhaps, a personal preference of mine (obviously not Sean's)

Oh no, actually I sometimes like grain quite a bit myself. It depends on the work. Mitch's call is whether or not to start adding it in.

Cheers,

Sean

cam
7th January 2008, 06:48
The pictures updated from flickr, but, not having a comparison, I'm not sure you can notice a difference.

—Mitch/Huahin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

even side by side, it's difficult to see because the pictures are smaller on flickr....

cam
7th January 2008, 09:28
Oh no, actually I sometimes like grain quite a bit myself. It depends on the work. Mitch's call is whether or not to start adding it in.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean, i'm sorry if that came out mean-sounding. i completely respect your views and taste (hey, i subscribe to your reviews!). blame it on late night posting misspeak.

i've just been grappling with some of the same issues as mitch. in my case, as i am not as good as he is, i've managed to get a lot of grit out of the GRDII sometimes -- even when it isn't wanted! i was just giving input as i'm a fan of mitch's work... again, my apologies.

Maggie O
7th January 2008, 09:37
Yeah, I think "smoothness" is a better descriptor for what I was trying to get across.

Sean_Reid
7th January 2008, 13:46
Sean, i'm sorry if that came out mean-sounding. i completely respect your views and taste (hey, i subscribe to your reviews!). blame it on late night posting misspeak.

i've just been grappling with some of the same issues as mitch. in my case, as i am not as good as he is, i've managed to get a lot of grit out of the GRDII sometimes -- even when it isn't wanted! i was just giving input as i'm a fan of mitch's work... again, my apologies.

Hi Cam,

There's nothing to apologize for at all.

Cheers,

Sean

LFPhoto
7th January 2008, 17:22
Thanks Mitch - great set. I am a fan of your style, and appreciate your commentary.

I know it's hard to tell with images posted on the web, but to me a number of the images composed with faces very pronounced in the foreground appear soft (as opposed to the background), and I wondered if it was motion blur, until I saw your shutter speeds, and wonder now if it may be a near DOF thing. What focus mode did you use? Thanks, Brian.

Mitch Alland
7th January 2008, 19:23
Thanks, LF. For the pictures where the people are near I focused at 1m, for the others I used SNAP. The focus should be correct unless there is something wrong with the camera. I think I noted in another thread that when I used SPOT focus to focus on something, say, 3m or 1m away, and then switched to MF the MF focus scale did not show these numbers; so I wonder...

—Mitch/Bngkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
8th January 2008, 00:10
But I forgot to add, as stated above and as commented on by Sean, I don't think that most of the pictures are out of focus...

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
8th January 2008, 03:29
As the pictures in the OP have finally disappeared I'm posting them here again:


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2320/2171466722_98984b8c60_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2171466226_3ab7274c25_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2177380440_1715b144c0_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2170676467_de6a0dfec7_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2358/2170677275_136f3e9200_o.jpg

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Player
8th January 2008, 08:22
That's interesting about the sharpness. I would say that they're acceptably sharp, maybe not tack sharp. I just assumed that Mitch had rendered them as he wanted them, and they're great pictures!

I also agree with helenhill's comment about Mitch raising his small sensor photography to
"The World of Art."

Maggie O
8th January 2008, 08:28
Those look great, Mitch. That 3-D quality is back.

mwalker
8th January 2008, 10:08
I also agree with helenhill's comment about Mitch raising his small sensor photography to
"The World of Art."


I agree..I'm a fan...thanks for posting.

Mitch Alland
8th January 2008, 13:04
Those look great, Mitch. That 3-D quality is back.Maggie, thanks for the advice: it's amazing how sometimes small touches make a difference.

Mike. Player: thanks for the kind words.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

LFPhoto
8th January 2008, 17:26
That's interesting about the sharpness. I would say that they're acceptably sharp, maybe not tack sharp. I just assumed that Mitch had rendered them as he wanted them, and they're great pictures!

My comment above was not directed at the overall sharpness of the image, but to the relative level, wherein the foreground appears softer than the background. I am assuming this in not the intention since the faces are forward in a number of the compositions, but this may be presumptuous of me. I also acknowledge that it is hard to make observations based on web images. My suspicion is that, having ruled out motion blur, there is an element of unpredictability in the near DOF under some of the focus modes. Unfortunately the EXIF data doesn't report the focus mode, so this is hard to determine. Respectfully, Brian.

Mitch Alland
8th January 2008, 17:31
Brian, they're all in MF, set either for 2.5m or 1m, depending on the distance of the person from me.I find that none of the AF modes are fast enough for street photography, as they induce excessive shutter delay.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Jack
8th January 2008, 18:01
They look great Mitch!

Just a reminder to you guys you have tons of free image storage space in the galleries right here, especially if flickr keeps dropping your links.

Sean_Reid
8th January 2008, 19:47
Brian, they're all in MF, set either for 2.5m or 1m, depending on the distance of the person from me.I find that none of the AF modes are fast enough for street photography, as they induce excessive shutter delay.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



Hi Mitch,

AF delay, actually, and I agree with you completely. One difference with the Ricohs is that they respond with virtually no lag when manually focused and this is not the case with some other small sensor cameras.

The only small sensor camera I've tested that almost was able to AF quickly was the older Sony V1.

Cheers,

Sean

trisberg
9th January 2008, 06:06
Sean or Mitch,

Can you pre-focus (half-way press and hold shutter release) and lock the focus? If you can, is the shutter lag as short then as when you focus manually? Any comparisons to Canon G9 in regards to shutter lag?

Thanks,
Thomas

Mitch Alland
9th January 2008, 06:33
Thomas:

Yes, you can do a half-shutter press to prefocus but I haven't tested this because, with the huge DOF of this camera, it's a lot more convenient to use MF to pre-focus — and I suspect a lot faster too.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Mitch Alland
12th January 2008, 12:25
As I've reworked two of the pictures above, which will make them disappear in the posting above, here are the new versions, in which I've pushed the the dark tones lower, following the logic of the look (at least to me) and have increased contrast to compensate for this as well:


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2177380440_c980167ccb_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2170676467_a38968d080_o.jpg


—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Sean_Reid
12th January 2008, 13:01
Sean or Mitch,

Can you pre-focus (half-way press and hold shutter release) and lock the focus? If you can, is the shutter lag as short then as when you focus manually? Any comparisons to Canon G9 in regards to shutter lag?

Thanks,
Thomas

Yes, you can prefocus with a half-press and yes the shutter then responds almost instantly. The G9 is slower than the GR2 in MF mode, will discuss that further in my review of that camera which should be ready in the next couple of weeks. I'm hoping that the GR2 review will be published tomorrow.

Cheers,

trisberg
12th January 2008, 18:18
Mitch and Sean, thanks for the info. The amount of shutter lag is hard to figure out from just reading online technical specs and reviews so feedback from someone with hands on experience is very valuable. Looking forward to reading Sean's reviews.

Thomas

Sean_Reid
13th January 2008, 09:06
Mitch and Sean, thanks for the info. The amount of shutter lag is hard to figure out from just reading online technical specs and reviews so feedback from someone with hands on experience is very valuable. Looking forward to reading Sean's reviews.

Thomas

Give it about two hours or so and it should be up.

Cheers,

Sean