J
jjlphoto
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Here's what the CS print window should look like:
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This is where LR is more straightforward than Photoshop. The mere act of selecting that cryptically named printer/paper profile automatically disengages the 'printer manages color' pathway, where as in Photoshop, you still have to intentionally toggle to 'PS Manages Color' even though you have selected a printer/paper profile.Forgive me for intruding...I'm on windoze..and apologies if this is simplistic;
in LR in XP or whatever, when in Print module, you change 'from printer manages colors' and then pick the appropriate cryptically named profile....
Exactly. Some minor variations in the Mac/Win interface, but the process of selecting the 'Off (no Color Adjustment)' in the printer's driver itself is the second key ingredient....and then go to the print box on bottom right, select printer and its properties, click at Mode to select 'custom' and select 'Off (no Color Adjustment)' thus:
Yes, you're right--#3. You will have to choose an Epson media (not sure with a Canon printer), but the profile is designed to work with the media--every third party media I've used gives the correct Epson media to choose in that area.To the above:
you also have to select the appropriate type of paper (= Media) for the actual paper you are using -- it should tell you on/in the box or the manufacturer's website if you are using non Epson paper .
Hey, I LIKE no color management. The nice thing about it is...it doesn't change. ;-)I've followed this but kept my nose out of the thread since there have been good posts. Somehow I think there is a misunderstanding about what 'color management' is on the part of the OP. My understanding is that Picasa has NO color management at all--and secondly that he may very well be double profiling in LR.
That is not true. Only a fully colormanaged environment is consistent. You method is simply not colormanaged at all. It is all based on chance. Sorry.Hey, I LIKE no color management. The nice thing about it is...it doesn't change. ;-)
Huh? None of those should be used in a colormanaged workflow.I may have used different printer settings last time (unenhanced vs enhanced).
Digital cameras do not have a colorspace. The RAW data is processed into an RGB colorspace of your choice like sRGB, AdobeRGB, ColorMatchRGB, ProPhotoRGB or similar. In the case of a LR workflow, the RAW camera data gets converted behind the scenes to MelissaRGB, then held in a sort of virtual state until you choose the type of output, whether you are making a tiff, jpeg, or sending it direct to a printer, and in all cases, you select either an RGB space for the former and a printer/paper profile for the latter.But this new example I used was taken with my digital back, in whatever colorspace Phase uses, it looks fine onscreen, but gets "flattened" when going to the printer. I realize most of my problems arose from using this camera, not my DSLR.
The only way to make LR print properly is to fully implement a colormanaged workflow in its entirety. It's really quite simple. Based on your screen shot of the print driver, you have not turned off printer colormanagement. Take a close look at Robert Campbell's screen shot and enable the same features that pertain to your printer. The reason you need to turn off printer color management is because LR is doing the colormanagement of the file by your selection of the printer/paper profile in the LR print Job panel. If you let the file pass into the driver into the tab that does have all the controls like tones, enhancements, or other color types of settings, that will hose your file and you will output a dud......I didn't ask for how to run a fully managed workflow....as I realize that's a long and complicated answer.
But then that would be a false statement.Here's a tip...an easy answer would have been:
"Color management with ICC profiles is required with LR when printing from any files not originating in the sRGB colorspace. Otherwise, the data going to the printer will not be in a format the printer expects"
Actually, it is not reasonable to assume that LR will output data that looks like it does on the screen, unless you implement colormanagement properly. No wiggle room here.It's not unreasonable for someone who doesn't LIVE by colorspaces like you do to assume that LR will output data that looks like it does on the screen. That is the question I asked, and yet you were (and still are) unable to answer it.
Doing such is not in keeping with a colormanaged workflow. sRGB is a working space, not intended to be an output profile in a true colormanaged environment.Apparently, outputting to sRGB is the easiest way, which is why I asked.
Had you READ my post, you'd understand that was WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO! The ICC profile I used wasn't good enough, so I was printing in the way that works better WITH sRGB FILES.The only way to make LR print properly is to fully implement a colormanaged workflow in its entirety. It's really quite simple. Based on your screen shot of the print driver, you have not turned off printer colormanagement.
Okay, then how about YOU TELL ME THE RIGHT ANSWER instead of continuing your holier-than-thou rants? Because it surely matches all the evidence I have to date, and I trust proof more than I trust people's comments online, regardless of how much experience they may claim to have.But then that would be a false statement.
Funny, every other program I use does...but you're right, I'm not being reasonable.Actually, it is not reasonable to assume that LR will output data that looks like it does on the screen, unless you implement colormanagement properly. No wiggle room here.
Do you ever get through a sentence without including "colormanaged"? Some of us don't live in a colormanaged world. You may. Enjoy it. Thanks for trying to help, but save your effort. You're sounding like a mindless automaton.Doing such is not in keeping with a colormanaged workflow. sRGB is a working space, not intended to be an output profile in a true colormanaged environment.
Funny: my partner has an R800. He wanted to print a bunch of family snapshots and I have LR installed on his MacBook (for testing) so I showed him how to set up a print template and apply it. He's been printing snapshot album photos for his aunt with that template for two years now ... they look great.This is on PC, not Mac. Obviously, I have a unique problem that goes way beyond the experience here. I recommend people don't use an R800 printer with Lightroom...you'll either throw your printer out, or at least put your fist through it like I did.
Ha, this part cracks me up:
I will tell you what that refers to. It has nothing to do with those who are printing photographs. There are four rendering intents graphics software uses to convert the file from gamut to gamut. Perceptual, Relative, Absolute and Saturation.Ha, this part cracks me up:
"Important note:
Unlike in Adobe Photoshop, the rendering intent „saturation”
is not available in Adobe Lightroom. For this reason, we can
only recommend the use of Adobe Lightroom for printing with
ICC-Printer-Profiles, created with our own Printing-Solution
Spyder3Print, conditionally!"
Plain and simple.
YepI just have to say I don't get it.
You can assume all you want, but you'd be wrong. And when you get to saying "Inks are irrelevant"...you are just sounding more foolish. I have different ink cartridges with the same printer...they look nothing alike.Generic ICC profiles are cheap--free---and very good for the most part (I haven't found any that don't work good enough for me for personal use) and are probably available for any media you are using. I can't imagine you aren't using the inks that came with whatever printer you are using---and the inks are irrelevant for the most part.
It takes you THAT long to describe something simple? Ironic.You simply need to know what printer you are using and select it (I have 3 in my driver list--but primarily print with the Epson 3800), select the paper profile for the media you are using (I have multitudes having 3 printers over the years and lots of papers, but you can choose which ones you want in your drop down list at bottom right and its easy enough to choose the right one for the paper and the printer--they are usually preceded by the printer name/model and sort of a shorthand for the paper), select the media in the driver window and make sure that in 'custom/advanced' (depends on what your driver shows), you select 'no color management'---meaning NO color management by the printer and puts all of the color management in LR (using printer name, profile, media choice). Forgot you also have to select the media in the driver window--that will be stipulated by your profile--you'll find the instructions either on the mfg. page or often on a sheet included with the paper.
So--if I'm going to print on Ilford's Gold Fiber Silk, I've gotten their generic profile (or had a custom profile created for that paper and my printer) for the Epson 3800 from their site (it will give me the ICC profile and the media setting)--I install that on my computer (XP Pro) and it will show up on the left list in LR (if the ICC Profile that you installed isn't shown in the drop down list in bottom right, you select other at the end of the bottom right drop down list, a list shows up on the left and you put a check beside the profile you want to add and it will then be in your drop down list). The profile for the Ilford paper stipulates that I need to choose Premium Semigloss Photo Paper as my media choice with the 3800. I choose that in my driver window and go to custom/advanced settings in that same window and choose 'off/no color management'. Having set up size, borders, etc. then I just hit print. I don't have to fiddle around with any other settings, software, printer settings, etc.
Does that sentence make any sense to you? "The only way to get consistent prints" may very well be true, but that doesn't therefore mean it's not difficult. Google "non sequitur".I really don't get what's so difficult about this--its the only way to get consistent prints.
Yeah, I figured it out, no thanks to anyone elseThe original question you asked is if you were missing something--and this is it.
Saturation is not a photographic rendering intent. The quote above is a non sequitur.Ha, this part cracks me up:
"Important note:
Unlike in Adobe Photoshop, the rendering intent „saturation”
is not available in Adobe Lightroom. For this reason, we can
only recommend the use of Adobe Lightroom for printing with
ICC-Printer-Profiles, created with our own Printing-Solution
Spyder3Print, conditionally!"
Plain and simple.