Ron (Netherlands)
New member
pityIf I want your opinion, I will give it to you...
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pityIf I want your opinion, I will give it to you...
It was a joke--hence the following post. I actually agree with you.pity
Roger I respect everything you had to say here, and I agree with almost all of it. The only possible issue I would have is in the way you define value when using the words "it will be worth it."The intention of the proof of performance DNG s is to provide potential buyers (hopefully) with an opportunity to judge for themselves . How can this context be so easily tossed away to justify almost any POV ? Whats fair to expect?
The files selected should show how the new camera handles a need for a large dynamic range ,the ability to record fine detail , noise limitations in high ISO etc (not a complete list ). It is in this context that comments are fair game . I thought Jono and Chris did a good job of showing representative samples .
Leica has such great products (eventually) that they get a free pass on "never ever getting anything done on time " . No knock on Jono or Chris but a pro with good light could shoot all those proofs in a day . So they have Jono out months before ...last fall ? Seems like a fair comment that Leica s new release process is lacking . Wait 9 months for Leica to get it right ? Seriously can anyone that bought an M8,M9 or S2 at first release support that Leica got it right ? The Leica SPa trip joke isn t funny if you need the gear .
Expecting a professional set of DNG s to evaluate a buying decision sure seems reasonable to me . If you didn t order back last summer (no not at the release date ) you wouldn t see you camera (in most cases ) until summer . A 9 month wait for most orders . This is new low in performance by the team that can t stop patting themselves on the back (not Jono/Chris ) .
IMO ...the DNG s are decent to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the new M . They will get better as Adobe finishes the profiles , calibration and presets get refined . However, The files are very finished looking compared to the M9 or S2 at introduction . This means that the embedded profile clearly has produced the color to a desired profile . In normal daylight I found the WB and most of the other processing unnecessary . This is similar to the DMR which never did get an Adobe profile (correct ?) . The maestro processor has been working hard .
Really did anyone expect the files to be crappy ? We know the change from CCD to CMOS is the big story . If you have compared any of the top CMOS systems to CCD you know what to look for :
1.......ISO performance is better with CMOS ..the files hold up as ISO increases and they extend out up to ISO6400 . DR ,color saturation and noise suppression hold up better .
2........IQ at base ISO has a different aesthetic differences between CCD and CMOS ...this isn t going to change . The CCD files have a brilliance and color depth thats not matched by CMOS ..even using the same Leica lenses .
So all as expected ..the M9 never matched the DMR ..but it was superb in its own right and better in so many other ways . I expect the M will follow the same path ..it will be superb but different . if you have been waiting and waiting for performance in the 800-3200 range ,live view,EVF or many of the other updates , it will be worth it .
Just people being people. Many were disrespectful. Most were somewhat objective. Some people feel it's their duty to champion their choice in camera either way and that everything else is crap. I guess it goes with the territory. Full disclosure a part of me disliked some of the perceived arrogance of SOME Leica M users when I was initially researching an M8 purchase. In a way it was good thing because I saw helpful regulars at LUF like Guy and Jonoslack mention GetDPI and that's how I wound up here. The saying is true though until you've walked in their shoes it's unfair to judge. Being an M owner I see the other side and the assumed prejudices of M users that is often far from the truth for most (they're all spoiled rich camera/ lens collectors, status camera, they don't actually make photos, etc.)I don't know what all happened on LUF, RFF, SH, LR... But I can only imagine. And why I started La Vida Leica. The childish bickering and other nonsense just got old. Thankfully, GetDPI has a similar no-nonsense bunch of guys behind it and what keeps this site respectable, mature and professional.
In any event, thank you Jono - for providing the images! They're very much appreciated.
HI ThereI don't know what all happened on LUF, RFF, SH, LR... But I can only imagine. And why I started La Vida Leica. The childish bickering and other nonsense just got old. Thankfully, GetDPI has a similar no-nonsense bunch of guys behind it and what keeps this site respectable, mature and professional.
In any event, thank you Jono - for providing the images! They're very much appreciated.
Good news. I'm hoping these recent events haven't dissuaded you from continuing these forays in the future.I've had some supportive and friendly comments and emails from people who I really do respect - which much more than makes up for the negative.
Jono,HI There
Actually, LUF has been interesting - sometimes challenging, often negative, but mostly sensible and useful.
RFF has been RFF - I was accused of both fraud, and allowing Leica to write the blurb on the blog which has my name to it - standard RFF stuff I'd say! Some measured stuff though - as usual .
SH and LR - well!
But it's okay - it comes with the territory - and on the other hand I've had some supportive and friendly comments and emails from people who I really do respect - which much more than makes up for the negative.
All the best
Good news. I'm hoping these recent events haven't dissuaded you from continuing these forays in the future.
^ What he said.
Thank you kindly gentlemenJono,
you are doing great work here - as always
best
Peter
Hi RonIt puzzles me: why must we find it good work if some photog is working together with Leica advertising and praising its new products -
Hi There GuyBTW I would love to get impressions on how the new Leica handles compared to the old style with all the new features. That would be interesting to our readers. Be interesting to hear of live view compared to popular DSLR cams with it and how it works in comparison since most of us have live view on our DSLR stuff. I think that would be fun to hear. Just a thought