Abstraction
Well-known member
P1 has taken the first step towards becoming, what I think it will be, a software development company.
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Phase One and Leica had a falling out, i could totally be wrong but I doubt Leica and C1 is ever going to happen.I joked earlier that the GFX, X1D, and Leica S were no longer competition for P1 and that C1 support would follow.
One down....
Matt
Agreed. Unless you are in a hurry moving from m43, you might as well wait for the GFX100/GFR100/X2D. They are right around the corner.Mental note - not rushing into a system is a VERY good idea! i was so close to getting an X1D but I don't see that is likely now.
Or Fuji just buys Phase One lolPhase one does not have a mirrorless solution. Maybe a collaboration with Fuji on that subject was a key to make the deal happen ? Just speculating. But if Phase One wants to stay in the camera game, they'd better have a mirrorless solution, because now, they start to look like a dinosaur.
I had the same speculation as well... but couldn't make much sense out of it *at the moment* since Sony would need an entirely new manufacture line for MF camera and lenses, that is quite some $$$ into R&D.Skip forward to the future where Sony owns the sensor business and brings out a Medium Format camera with exclusive sensors. You just know that's going to happen at some point!
Why would they or Fuji enter into an agreement of any sorts that excludes their premium pro flagship camera!?!But will C1 support the 100 megapixel version? Seems unlikely
I would think it may be in their best interests to watch everyone play their cards, and also get hooked in to their sensors. Then release a camera with a sensor that no one has access to.I had the same speculation as well... but couldn't make much sense out of it *at the moment* since Sony would need an entirely new manufacture line for MF camera and lenses, that is quite some $$$ into R&D.
Selling the MF chips is already quite profitable and doesn't leave Sony with the hassle of manufacturing, distribution and marketing, I suspect Sony will be going with this model for a very long time unless they see a huge profitability by joining the DMF fight.
The rather niche DMF market is as saturated with major players (P1, Hassy, Leica, Fuji & Pentax) as FF (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, and well, as of today, Panasonic), not sure if Sony could/would spare some resource to join the DMF flight.
But hey, you can never be sure what's gonna happen in a couple years
That is a good point though. That would be awkward.But will C1 support the 100 megapixel version? Seems unlikely
very common for P1 owners to also own a GFX. However as one of those, the 100mp Fuji may not be good news for P1. I do have the 150mp back on order and am excited to see what it does, especially with tech camera, but I also just called my dealer to get on a waiting list for the new Fuji. It’s size and weight will make it a much more used camera than my current backup (Sony a7r3), and indeed may become my most used setup, especially when I have some hiking to do.Why would they or Fuji enter into an agreement of any sorts that excludes their premium pro flagship camera!?!
That thought process makes little sense.
I still think this is/was the natural (forced) progression for them. Many P1 owners buy a Fuji system with a few key lenses as backup tontheir P1 camera and/or a travel camera kit that’s not much larger than a DSLR. I also assume they lost some sales from people that feel 50mp is enough and 100 isn’t necessary... the. There are those that could never really afford a $50k+ back that rarely cross shop with $6k bodies.
Maybe intended as a joke, but to someone who sold a majority interest in my company to a private equity firm, this investment is getting long in the tooth and I would be surprised if the PE firm isn’t looking for an exit strategy. Fuji certainly would seem to be a worthy suitor.Or Fuji just buys Phase One lol
I don’t disagree with you but with Phase One moving even further upmarket with the IQ4 line the potential hardware customer base shrunk that much further. I’m sure it was relatively small when it cost $25k+ to get into a newer system... the $70k+ requirement (starting fresh) is likely that much more daunting.very common for P1 owners to also own a GFX. However as one of those, the 100mp Fuji may not be good news for P1. I do have the 150mp back on order and am excited to see what it does, especially with tech camera, but I also just called my dealer to get on a waiting list for the new Fuji. It’s size and weight will make it a much more used camera than my current backup (Sony a7r3), and indeed may become my most used setup, especially when I have some hiking to do.
To me the alliance probably signals that Phase might not have a mirrorless option not the horizon, and as mentioned earlier doesn’t view Fuji as a direct competitor anymore as they seem to have abandoned the cropped MF space.
Maybe intended as a joke, but to someone who sold a majority interest in my company to a private equity firm, this investment is getting long in the tooth and I would be surprised if the PE firm isn’t looking for an exit strategy. Fuji certainly would seem to be a worthy suitor.
Fuji have the know-how, the resources, the manpower, the heritage, they've been making medium format cameras for so many decades. It's a massive company who create high quality well designed practical products for a lower price. There will be no way anyone can stop them at this point, this is what they do best and now they have infiltrated a ripe market where the competition can't compete on this level with this product. Phase One was always vulnerable to this being priced so incredibly high - fine when there is no other competition. Best to get on board with them and join the inevitable ride. In the late nineties when film started dying out Fuji bombed out to the amateur market, but all along and that long ago they were planting their seeds, building and growing, learning to make things even cheaper, and turning into a digital powerhouse. They've clawed their way back up through APS and now they've dropped a bomb on the high end market. The place they stood so long ago.I think the Fuji 100 is bad news for P1's hardware division. And C1 opening up to Fuji MF makes total economic sense if they think they cannot stop the Fuji behemoth anyway. They are with the back against the wall and need to create cashflow. Software is great for that. Quicker money than alpha backs shipping in 2019 ... in fact, this is a monumental shift for P1 -> with crop MF lost to the competition, investor pressure, market forces working against you re-think your priorities. This is what happened here, I would think.
Also competition wise it makes sense. Like Samsung's screen division selling OLED to Apple and Sony's sensor division selling sensors to everyone. If they got some sort of licensing revenue or full frame exclusivity out of it, then good for them.
But it won't help...
Fuji basically set the new 100MPX price point to the 10k mark, adding IBIS!! to the equation, great color science and cheaper lenses. In fact, after having seen the upsettingly low trade in offer I got for P1 for upgrading (insult to an old P1 customer) I am really tempted if P1 doesn't go down in price over the next year to go full on Fuji. I bet many are too.
I think the investors didn't foresee the Hassy crop camera and Fuji's glorious market entry back in 2014.
The sole area of retreat for P1 now is "full frame MF" (plus C1), but honestly who besides Alpa camera users needs this when you can have a Fuji for 10k at 100MPX with C1 tethering?
And for all those considering going for the P1 150 -> cancel your preorder and order next year when prices go down. My dealer here in Europe told me there's usually a price drop of 5k EUR at least once first wave of "enthusiasts" (ie rich old men) + real pros bought their cameras.
Will be very interesting to see how Fuji will change the MF world.
And with P1 transitioning more towards a software company, I think dealers should become worried for what the future will hold. C1 sells via credit card and webshop ... and the Fuji 100s will sell via Amazon / B&H.
Same feeling here. Just dropped a line to the country manager for P1. Hope they rethink their ridiculous prices or else I am joining Team Fuji!Fuji have the know-how, the resources, the manpower, the heritage, they've been making medium format cameras for so many decades. It's a massive company who create high quality well designed practical products for a lower price. There will be no way anyone can stop them at this point, this is what they do best and now they have infiltrated a ripe market where the competition can't compete on this level with this product. Phase One was always vulnerable to this being priced so incredibly high - fine when there is no other competition. Best to get on board with them and join the inevitable ride. In the late nineties when film started dying out Fuji bombed out to the amateur market, but all along and that long ago they were planting their seeds, building and growing, learning to make things even cheaper, and turning into a digital powerhouse. They've clawed their way back up through APS and now they've dropped a bomb on the high end market. The place they stood so long ago.
I think Capture One will stay around but they are already significantly diminished. I hope they go on to create more interesting and niche products. It would be great to see a very high end mirrorless from them.
I've been buying Phase One backs since 2004 and this the first time since then I will be moving to another brand. I never in my life thought it would be possible to see such a leap in specification, never seen before features like IBIS all at a fraction of the cost. Check mate.
Don't worry, they might be joining team Fuji right along with you.Same feeling here. Just dropped a line to the country manager for P1. Hope they rethink their ridiculous prices or else I am joining Team Fuji!