SK digitar 72mm L vs 80mm L vs 90mm N

[espelancer]

I am looking for a Copal 0 lens to use with 60mp digital back at around 80mm focus lens.

I notice the 3 lenses all have good reputation. I wonder what is the difference between them? It seems they all have 90mm image circle and very similar focus length.

 

[vjbelle]

Other than focal length the main differences would be how they perform straight on and shifted. I have never shot the 80mm or the 90mm but have the 72mm and have used it on various sensor dimension cameras and it is very sharp and able to shift - even compound - pretty close to the edges of its image circle without any considerable degradation. I also have the 100mm Digitar and when I was purchasing these lenses I was considering the 90mm and the dealer at that time talked me out of it saying that from his experience I would be much happier with the performance of the 100mm. The 100mm Digitar, in my estimation, is not in the same league as the 72mm when shifting beyond 10mm.

Here is a translated press release sheet from Schneider regarding the 72mm.

Victor B.

 

[sunhouwang]

Why not choose digaron hr 70mm, perfect performance with larger IC.

 

[4x5Australian]

Here is a translated press release sheet from Schneider regarding the 72mm.

Victor B.

Victor, thank you for posting the press release for the Apo-Digitar 72mm.

 

[4x5Australian]

According to Schneider's specification brochure, the image circles of the Apo-Digitar 72mm, 80mm and 90mm lenses are 90mm in diameter, while the image circle of the Apo-Digitar 100mm lens is 100mm in diameter.

Here are the MTF graphs for the Apo-Digitar N 72mm, 80mm, 90mm and 100mm lenses.

 

[Alkibiades]

much more interesting is the real praxis check than advertising. having all these lenses here my real life experience.
first:
you do nothing wrong when you go with one of these lenses, the differances in the praxis are so small, that there is no real reason for going for this or that lens accept your personal preferences in your work.
the question is for what do you need this lens.
72 mm or 90 mm: this is a big difference when you shoot landscape or architecture. not in terms of optical quality but of the angle of view.
In the practical use 72-80 mm would be here the way to go.
72 mm has a theoretical image circle of 90 mm, but the lens becomes softer at extrem edges- as every schneider lens with such lens design.
the 80 mm has an image circle of 80 mm at 4-8 but at f11 the image circle rise also to 90 mm, so this lens have similar shift possibilities like 72 mm.
both lenses are extremly sharp, if you what a better bokeh or you shoot products or close work also that the 80 mm will be the better choice.
if you need more wide than afcourse the 72 mm.
70HR is a good lens that is easy to use, the 90 mm image circle have a stabile sharpness, better than 72 mm but in all the 70HR is little softer than 72 mm.
90 mm has the same lensdesign as the 80 mm ( bases on Apo Componon), the optical performance is the same, but in optical view the lens tends more to the longer side that to the normal lens.
The lens is less interesting for architecture or landscape, but more interesting for pointing out some part, product and also stiching.
Than the Apo digitar 100 mm ( or Apo Sironar Digital 105 mm) are different lenses also, both base on Apo Symmar/Apo Sironar lens design, thay have much bigger image circle than the 4,5/90 mm, thay can deliver realy huge movements with very good performance at the edges ( f11 the best), a perfect lens for stiching, panoramas with naturalistic look ect...
that there is the 100HR that is the sharpest lens in that focal length, that can deliver not such huge movements but allows you still 20-25 mm in best quality.
nevertheless the 90 HR SW and the older 90 hr W, the fist the expansive champion with large movements in best quality and the cheaper alternative with still a good performance.
At all all these lenses are really fine, you should choose the lens that meets the your personal preferances closely.

 

[daz7]

100mm digitar IC is more than 125mm.
Early Schneider brochures were giving that radius for 6x9 film or large sensors.
Later brochures show 100mm but that's very conservative.
I can see it's image circle well exceeding 120mm for acceptable sharpness but probably depends on how critical you are to corner performance.

 

[rdeloe]

The 80mm is not as good as the 90mm. You can get both the 80 and 90 mm optics as Componon lenses. The cells in an App Digitar 80mm are the same as the ones in the Componon-S. The cells in the 90 mm digitar are part of a large family of industrial and enlarger lenses that are tuned for slightly different magnifications. Both the 80 and the 90 mm come in enlarger lens housings, which are not the best for photography, and in the industrial Makro-Iris housing, which are great.

 

[Alkibiades]

The 80mm is not as good as the 90mm. You can get both the 80 and 90 mm optics as Componon lenses. The cells in an App Digitar 80mm are the same as the ones in the Componon-S. The cells in the 90 mm digitar are part of a large family of industrial and enlarger lenses that are tuned for slightly different magnifications. Both the 80 and the 90 mm come in enlarger lens housings, which are not the best for photography, and in the industrial Makro-Iris housing, which are great.

wrong,
the 80 mm and 90 mm have the same lensdesign and share the same apo glasses, so it is radiculous the say one is better than the others. Both bases on componon design but thay are not componons. both have apo glasses with latest MC coutings, the componon-S have single couting glasses. even when thay share the same lensdesign they have completly different glasses and are produced in other technikal standarts- technology of the 70 ties and of the 2000.
the quality of the glasses and the coutings are the point here, not the lens design that schneider didt change in the most optics.

 

[Alkibiades]

100mm digitar IC is more than 125mm.
Early Schneider brochures were giving that radius for 6x9 film or large sensors.
Later brochures show 100mm but that's very conservative.
I can see it's image circle well exceeding 120mm for acceptable sharpness but probably depends on how critical you are to corner performance.

Apo digitar 100 mm and rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital besed on Apo Symmar-Apo Sironar lens design. Thay have the real physical image circle about 160 mm that reach 4x5 inch format. The 125 mm are not the physical end but the image circle that have quaranted great optical perfomance for digital need. the physical image circle is on all schneider and rodentock non HR lenses much bigger. Stop reading brochures, test lenses for yourself.

 

[espelancer]

Thanks everyone for the information all super helpful

 

[rdeloe]

wrong,
the 80 mm and 90 mm have the same lensdesign and share the same apo glasses, so it is radiculous the say one is better than the others. Both bases on componon design but thay are not componons. both have apo glasses with latest MC coutings, the componon-S have single couting glasses. even when thay share the same lensdesign they have completly different glasses and are produced in other technikal standarts- technology of the 70 ties and of the 2000.
the quality of the glasses and the coutings are the point here, not the lens design that schneider didt change in the most optics.

Sorry sport, you don't get to dismiss my opinion, which is based on careful empirical testing of both lenses. I've had multiple copies of the APO-Digitar 80mm f/4 and compared them to the Componon-S 80mm f/4. It's the same exact lens.

These are both from the Schneider-Kreuznach data sheets. One is Apo-Digitar and one is Componon-S. Which is which?


You can go on about coatings and special APO glass all you like, but if I pulled the cells from a Componon-S 80/4 and put them in an APO-Digitar 80/4 housing, nobody would be the wiser.

 

[Alkibiades]

I have here both lenses, yes as i also wrote thay have the same lensdesign, but the componons is claer singel couted, the Apo Digitar is MC couted, the glasses are totaly different, the contrast of the apo digitar is much better than the of the componon even by looking through.
The componon 80 mm was a endlarging lens for 6x6, the componon 90 mm was elarging lens for 6x9.
same lenses. same performance. the one is longer and have bigger image circle, the other shorter with smaller image circle.
non of them are better or worse.
An both digital versions got updaten MC modern glasses.
90 % of all medium format and large format lenses share 50 years old lens design that has been updated by better production and better glasses only.

 

[rdeloe]

The APO-Componon HM 90/4.5 that I use in a Makro-Iris mount was sold new by Schneider-Kreuznach in 2012 as one of several versions of a lens for industrial processes, as taking lenses. They also sold one version as an enlarger lens. The enlarger lens version (for enlargers and industrial applications) and the Digitar version have identical optical designs.

The same is true for the 80mm. You can buy an APO-Digitar 80mm f/4 made in 2010, or you can buy a Componon-S 80mm f/4 Type -0022 in the Makro-Iris housing made in 2010 and sold for industrial line scanning purposes. The optical formula is identical to the enlarger version and the Digitar version it sold at the same time.

I'm not prepared to believe that Schneider used different glass and coatings for the various versions of lenses it designed for making photographs that it sold at exactly the same time.

The bottom-line is that if people want to spend a lot more to get the name "Digitar" printed on the side of the housing (it's often not even on the lens cell), then they're welcome to do that. But don't expect better optical performance for the extra money.

To the OP: I did not mean to imply that the 80mm f/4 is a "bad" lens. It's not as good at f/4 and f/5.6 as a taking lens as the 90mm f/4.5. However, it's still a very good lens and you should make your decision based on the focal length you need. At f/11, there's probably not much to distinguish them. For what it's worth, I sold the APO-Digitar 80mm f/4 and replaced it with the APO-Componon 90mm f/4.5 in the Makro-Iris mount because I found it to be a better lens overall, and a more useful focal length.

Additionally, I would not buy either lens in the enlarger housing because it's not as nice to use as a taking lens. Schneider's Makro-Iris system is excellent if you don't need a shutter. It makes for a very flexible lens that is easy to mount in different ways. I don't need a Copal shutter, so I went with these housings. If you must have the "Digitar" version and you don't need a shutter, it's available in a housing that has Copal 0 threads and a simple iris mount.

 

[Alkibiades]

nevertheless Componon S is clear declared as a single couted lens, the Apo Digitar is MC couted. so its clear not the same.
Afcourse you could get the componon-s lens as the same time, but the glasses are prodused years ago.
so when you write the 80 mm should be not as good as the 90 mm this could be for the componon becouse od lack of modern couting, I would say the 80 mm is wide oper sharper than the 90 mm that is physicly simply a fact: the same lens but longer will be always less sharp than the shorter, to break it you need better lens desigh or better glass element.

 

[rdeloe]

nevertheless Componon S is clear declared as a single couted lens, the Apo Digitar is MC couted. so its clear not the same.
Afcourse you could get the componon-s lens as the same time, but the glasses are prodused years ago.
so when you write the 80 mm should be not as good as the 90 mm this could be for the componon becouse od lack of modern couting, I would say the 80 mm is wide oper sharper than the 90 mm that is physicly simply a fact: the same lens but longer will be always less sharp than the shorter, to break it you need better lens desigh or better glass element.

The Componon-S 80/4 was sold new in 2012 in the Makro-Iris mount as a lens for making photographs. It's not credible to believe that they used glass produced "years ago" in a lens they sold new a decade ago.

As for which is sharper wide open, I don't go by other peoples' opinions. I make my own determination after thorough and careful testing. Then I make photographs.

 

[Alkibiades]

The Componon-S 80/4 was sold new in 2012 in the Makro-Iris mount as a lens for making photographs. It's not credible to believe that they used glass produced "years ago" in a lens they sold new a decade ago.

As for which is sharper wide open, I don't go by other peoples' opinions. I make my own determination after thorough and careful testing. Then I make photographs.

mostly the glasses are produced and stays in the company, when they are done in the housing, the housing gets a number. this doesnt mean that the glasses are produces in this year. Rodenstock have still glasses that are produced 30 year ago, thay will not start new production for a small amount.

 

[buildbot]

I have no stake in this at all, but if they kept the glass around would it be uncoated? So they could update the coatings at any point. And possibly the Componon-S would have less coatings for a wider light transmission range? Further into IR or UV?

 

[Alkibiades]

and you absolutly right in term to make your own testing, but for this you have to test both Apo digitar versions, not the componon.
All componons had to be stopp down 2 stopps to get their optical best in dark chamber- only the newer Apo componons were great even wide open.

 

[Alkibiades]

I have no stake in this at all, but if they kept the glass around would it be uncoated? So they could update the coatings at any point. And possibly the Componon-S would have less coatings for a wider light transmission range? Further into IR or UV?

when they updated the coutings they write big MC, this sells always better, also it is easy to see if the lens is single couted or MC. it is not a big think to see it.