500C/M focusing issues

[B L]

Brandon, if I can do it you can also. Sometimes I put a lupe over the screen to help make fine adjustments. Just a thought.

 

[Godfrey]

Does he need the back with the camera to do focusing alignment? That's probably a dumb question.. I just don't think I could be without the back for multiple weeks.

I haven't the first idea. If you're going to send things in for a focusing system check, it's probably best to call or write him to see what he'd prefer.

Speaking out of my head, though ...

From a logical point of view, one has to be able to overhaul and adjust a body to the factory specifications without ALL of the lenses and backs that might be used on it available to do so. If you can't, there isn't much point to an interchangeable lens camera, never mind a modular system camera like a Hasselblad...!

My Mathematician is showing... oops!

G

 

[darr]

I don't know guys, expecting an old mechanical Hassy to focus like a digital mirrorless is a high expectation IMO.
All the moving and modular parts just do not add up like a made for digital camera to me.

My made-for-film Hasselblads (501CM, 503CX, Flexbody) all focus superbly with film. If there was an issue with my film I would definitely have the camera bodies serviced, but expecting them to focus as a newly engineered made for digital camera is not why I shoot them. I use my Fuji cameras for that and if I wanted that in medium format, I would buy a Fuji GFX 50R and not use a digital back. But, I come from a technical camera user background and using 'live view' is kind of like looking at the ground glass. :ROTFL: I shoot my V cameras with a digital back the same way I shoot my ALPA cameras and I get excellent results.

As far as sending in your camera to David Odess for service; must have patience. The most recent repairs I sent to David were two film magazines. Reading from emails of receipt, PayPal payments sent immediately upon completion, and return shipment tracking: one sent in 9/2017, returned 2/2018. Second one sent in 7/2018 and returned in 11/2018. So an average of four months or so. I recently had to have my Linhof repaired by Bob Watkins (he also has a lens of mine in for a CLA at the moment - also repairs the "V" system). The camera was received at his shop in 2/2020 and returned in 6/2020. Again, an average of four months I was without the camera. :scry:

You might be able to get a higher priority of service for more money.

I send my gear in for service when I feel necessary, and I always bank on it being a long wait time with these two excellent repair technicians; they are the best and everyone in the business knows it.

Best to you,
Darr

 

[docholliday]

I don't know guys, expecting an old mechanical Hassy to focus like a digital mirrorless is a high expectation IMO.

My made-for-film Hasselblads (501CM, 503CX, Flexbody) all focus superbly with film. If there was an issue with my film I would definitely have the camera bodies serviced, but expecting them to focus as a newly engineered made for digital camera is not why I shoot them. I use my Fuji cameras for that and if I wanted that in medium format, I would probably buy a Fuji GFX 50R and not use a digital back. But, I come from a technical camera user background and using 'live view' is kind like looking at the ground glass. :ROTFL:

As far as sending in your camera to David Odess for service; must have patience. The most recent repairs I sent to David were two film magazines. Reading from emails of receipt, PayPal payments sent immediately upon completion, and return shipment tracking: one sent in 9/2017, returned 2/2018. Second one sent in 7/2018 and returned in 11/2018. So an average of four months or so. I recently had to have my Linhof repaired by Bob Watkins (he also has a lens of mine in for a CLA at the moment). The camera was received at his shop in 2/2020 and returned in 6/2020. Again, an average of four months I was without the camera. :scry:

You might be able to get a higher priority of service for more money.

I send my gear in for service when I feel necessary, but I always know it will be a wait time with these two excellent repair technicians; they are the best and everyone in the business knows it.

Best to you,
Darr

That's actually a very reasonable time to get gear serviced nowadays with fewer and fewer qualified techs to work on gear who know their skills and care about the gear. Many manufacturers far exceed those timeframes for service, with Sony and Leica being the worst offenders - your gear may be gone for 6-10 months minimum (and may, or may not, actually be fixed when returned).

A few of us are lucky that we can work on our own stuff. I used to take apart both my 503s and 20x bodies/backs/prisms routinely for cleaning and checks. I've adjusted frame spacing, focus alignment and parallelism, and changed shutters in V lenses, as well as re-timing winding mechanisms and fixed the electronics in bodies/prisms. And, I've bought all the oils/greases/tools necessary and created all the jigs/tests to do the work. It's not cheap, but it was more timely than sending out...

I just replaced main caps and added a Pocketwizard inside my two main strobe packs, mostly because one cap split open during a rapid firing sequence (3200ws of power coming out to the nearest ground is mucho fun on set!) and I got tired of changing batteries in the Pocketwizards, so they now power up with the pack.

However, as most working pros do, I've got backup gear for the times I do have to send out. And like many of my colleagues, I've got two sets of some stuff so that one can be "in the shop" for repair/maintenance while the other set is actively being used. Usually, for these, as soon as one gets back, the other set is nearing it's time to go in...

 

[darr]

That's actually a very reasonable time to get gear serviced nowadays with fewer and fewer qualified techs to work on gear who know their skills and care about the gear. Many manufacturers far exceed those timeframes for service, with Sony and Leica being the worst offenders - your gear may be gone for 6-10 months minimum (and may, or may not, actually be fixed when returned).

A few of us are lucky that we can work on our own stuff. I used to take apart both my 503s and 20x bodies/backs/prisms routinely for cleaning and checks. I've adjusted frame spacing, focus alignment and parallelism, and changed shutters in V lenses, as well as re-timing winding mechanisms and fixed the electronics in bodies/prisms. And, I've bought all the oils/greases/tools necessary and created all the jigs/tests to do the work. It's not cheap, but it was more timely than sending out...

I just replaced main caps and added a Pocketwizard inside my two main strobe packs, mostly because one cap split open during a rapid firing sequence (3200ws of power coming out to the nearest ground is mucho fun on set!) and I got tired of changing batteries in the Pocketwizards, so they now power up with the pack.

However, as most working pros do, I've got backup gear for the times I do have to send out. And like many of my colleagues, I've got two sets of some stuff so that one can be "in the shop" for repair/maintenance while the other set is actively being used. Usually, for these, as soon as one gets back, the other set is nearing it's time to go in...

Doc,

That is nice you can service some of your gear. I can get through a shoot when unfortunates happen, mostly relying on backup gear, but I can also play with electronics somewhat and use speed tape/duct tape when needed. I just replaced my Profoto Airs after ten years of service, so not complaining about their time in service.

Yes repair time is expected, but being without my Linhof MT (only Sinar Norma as replacement) was a tragedy. Bob fixed her for $450 and I am not complaining because she took a tumble and survived.

Best to you,
Darr

 

[docholliday]

Doc,

That is nice you can service some of your gear. I can get through a shoot when unfortunates happen, mostly relying on backup gear, but I can also play with electronics somewhat and use speed tape/duct tape when needed. I just replaced my Profoto Airs after ten years of service, so not complaining about their time in service.

Yes repair time is expected, but being without my Linhof MT (only Sinar Norma as replacement) was a tragedy. Bob fixed her for $450 and I am not complaining because she took a tumble and survived.

Best to you,
Darr

Ah, yes, it just doesn't feel right when the kids aren't home!

 

[Godfrey]

I don't know guys, expecting an old mechanical Hassy to focus like a digital mirrorless is a high expectation IMO.
All the moving and modular parts just do not add up like a made for digital camera to me.

My made-for-film Hasselblads (501CM, 503CX, Flexbody) all focus superbly with film.
...

I don't expect any SLR to provide a focusing view like an EVF does. EVFs (assuredly the modern, super high resolution ones like we have now) simply do a better job for my eyes. That said, given that Hasselblad has done a good job of accurately positioning the sensor plane in the digital back, there is little difference in focusing between a film and a digital imaging system ... It's simply the case that a digital imaging system can see misfocusing so much more clearly and immediately due to the underlying differences in the capture technology. The two media "see" the world differently.

I've been dealing with this factor in various guises since I first started using digital image capture back at JPL in 1984. It's one of the reasons I like to work with film AND digital capture: they're different and they allow me to take advantage of their different imaging properties.

As I said, I doubt neither of my 500CM bodies have had a service in many many years, and they should likely be serviced soon since I'm using them more again now. But I honestly doubt that their focusing accuracy is off the mark by very much if at all. I just need to be more critical about my focusing when using them, that's all. They need a service more importantly for the same reasons a mechanical watch needs an occasional service: to be sure the mechanisms are clean and properly lubricated, to be sure there are no problems from wear affecting their future reliability and durability, and to replace parts that do wear out over time just from sitting.



G

 

[docholliday]

I don't expect any SLR to provide a focusing view like an EVF does. EVFs (assuredly the modern, super high resolution ones like we have now) simply do a better job for my eyes. That said, given that Hasselblad has done a good job of accurately positioning the sensor plane in the digital back, there is little difference in focusing between a film and a digital imaging system ... It's simply the case that a digital imaging system can see misfocusing so much more clearly and immediately due to the underlying differences in the capture technology. The two media "see" the world differently.

I've been dealing with this factor in various guises since I first started using digital image capture back at JPL in 1984. It's one of the reasons I like to work with film AND digital capture: they're different and they allow me to take advantage of their different imaging properties.

As I said, I doubt neither of my 500CM bodies have had a service in many many years, and they should likely be serviced soon since I'm using them more again now. But I honestly doubt that their focusing accuracy is off the mark by very much if at all. I just need to be more critical about my focusing when using them, that's all. They need a service more importantly for the same reasons a mechanical watch needs an occasional service: to be sure the mechanisms are clean and properly lubricated, to be sure there are no problems from wear affecting their future reliability and durability, and to replace parts that do wear out over time just from sitting.



G

As an addition to my earlier comments... I've actually never had any of my bodies go "out of focus". I check each time I maintenance the body/backs and it's always been dead on to the film/sensor plane...and I've never had a film back go out either. I've always focused with WLF and popup magnifier; never had an issue focusing, but I do have a custom/prescription diopter plate for each WLF. Even on my H bodies, I still focus with the HVD90x and rarely use Liveview unless the camera is mounted somewhere inconvenient (such as high over a set).

Typically, with film backs, it's just new light traps and a drop of Nye on two of the gears. With the bodies, it's usually cleaning out dust that's appeared in the mechanism and removing old lube for new (I call it an "oil change"). The most mechanically I've had to do to the body is on one, a spring went and needed replaced. On another body, the aux shutter slipped on it's shaft, so it just needed to be rotated back in place, crimped, and a drop of superglue added to keep it from slipping again.

These have all been exposed to snowstorms, rain storms, nasty heat and humidity, and occasionally dropped. I have had to replace quite a few PC sync ports on lenses from getting them ripped out when dropped or pulled, but that went away once I started using Pocketwizards with all cameras instead of stupidly-long (or worse, coiled) sync cables.

 

[pflower]

Yes it is curious. I have large numbers of 20x16 silver gelatin prints (and even more 11x14 and 8x10) made with the 503cx (which I bought in 1992 second hand). All of them look tack sharp.

But once I got the CFV50 examining the files at 100% it was clear that something was wrong. Could have been my eyesight - in 1992 and indeed up until 2001 I didn't need any assistance by way of glasses. Now I do. I changed the diopter on the WLF to +2 which helped but still lots of shots were soft. Mind you I like to shoot handheld with the WLF. Without an articulating screen (which the original CFV50 didn't have) using live view wasn't really practicable. Wasn't really practicable on a tripod either unless you have a very supple back. All I can say that a service (cost me about £100 here in the UK) made things dramatically different.

I do rather hanker after a 907x but I am more than happy with my X1D and now, since lockdown, I have gone out with my 503 and HP5 which I scan. Despite several enlargers and a newly built darkroom I doubt I will ever go back to printing in the darkroom again. I find that scanning and then manipulating in LR and PS gives me much finer control over the final print than years of densitometers, zone system calculations and trying different developers ever did.

But I still think that a few hundred dollars or pounds in servicing is worthwhile. But if you can hit focus on live view - more power to you.

One thing - completely off topic - I have found is that if you wait for a decent number of films to develop and contact proof (possibly as much as 5 or 6 weeks after exposing) was much more exciting since one was divorced from thinking about what it was you actually photographed and reacted instead to the picture in front of you. I now do much the same with digital.

I started with 35mm Tri-X, D76, Dektol and the cheapest paper I could find. The tools we have today are truly astonishing when compared to that combination. But one thing remains constant. The feel of a V system Hasselblad is hard to beat.

I love reading "on an old 503cx" when I consider that both of my 500CM bodies are a decade older than the first of those (1979 and 1978). The 503cx first shipped in 1988.

I haven't had either 500CM serviced since I bought them, in 2013 and 2020 respectively. I have, however, tested the focusing calibration on both of them extensively with both A12 film and the CFVII 50c backs. As far as I can tell from examining the negatives with 8x and 15x loupes and comparing them to the digital capture, if they are off, they are both off by the same amount. And the magnifying hood with focusing ocular has the same influence on the consistency of my focusing with film as it does with the digital back ... it's just a heck of a lot easier to go to 100% magnification with the digital image and see how far off it is than it is with the digital image on a high resolution computer display!

I will probably have the bodies serviced over the next year as they are now back in operation and it's a good precaution. But my workaround to minimize the loss of focusing consistency (which I attribute to my crappy eyesight) is to just stop down one to two stops more than I would with the same lens and distance on the digital back ... That seems to cover my average focusing error well enough in most cases.

G

 

[jjosephlatshaw]

Sorry to raise this old thread back from the dead. With the passing of David Odess, I'm wondering who I could take/send my 500C (really a 500C/M as the focusing screen is user-replaceable) and my CFV II 50C to, in order to resolve persistent back focus issues these days. I'm in the LA/Orange County area, but will ship if I need to.

 

[Godfrey]

Sad to hear that David Odess has passed away.
I would inquire at Hasselblad USA just on the off chance. And also Advance Camera Repair, in Portland ORE. https://www.advancecamera.com/

G

 

[jng]

Sorry to raise this old thread back from the dead. With the passing of David Odess, I'm wondering who I could take/send my 500C (really a 500C/M as the focusing screen is user-replaceable) and my CFV II 50C to, in order to resolve persistent back focus issues these days. I'm in the LA/Orange County area, but will ship if I need to.

Since you're in So Cal, try giving Samy's Camera in LA a call. They may have a technician on hand who services the old Hasselblads. Another good bet would be Bob Watkins at Precision Camera Works.

It's common for the mirror to go out of alignment with use, and sometimes the body gets knocked out of being square. A tech with the proper equipment should be able to check and realign the body and mirror path without issue.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

John

 

[TechTalk]

Also in the Los Angeles area is Steve's Camera Service Center in Culver City.