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Panoramic Images with the IQ4 while on the Field?

Hi folks, I hope all is well!

Many thanks for such an insightful forum. This is my first thread, so bear with me if this topic has been discussed at length. I currently own an IQ4 back paired with an XF body and a few lenses. While in the field (I'm an anthropologist working at the Amazon), I needed to stitch 3-4 images to create panoramic shots. I've been doing it quite rudimentary using my lightweight tripod ball-head and the like with mostly unprofessional results. So, I was wondering, what would be a better solution for someone whose weight and space matter (I need to walk long distances with my equipment) and have some budget limitations? I've been looking at professional panoramic heads (a reasonably good solution) and ALPA systems (an excellent choice but definitely out of my pocket). I've been tempted by the XT camera system, but I need the XR viewfinder for on-the-spot handheld portraits and stills. I was thinking of modifying a 6x12 camera with a moving back and a P1 adapter or something like that? I appreciate any advice. Many thanks, folks!
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
First off, welcome.

Secondly, to your question:

1) The XT system is actually more expensive and more limited, the native XT glass is priced at the highest level in the market and the lack of other bodies is limiting;

2) You need to decide whether you want to flat stitch in a tech cam - cleanest approach and for that you should go with a brand which has most shift ways or whether you want to use nodal point stitching.

3) One approach could be to use a smaller tech cam like the XT, Alpa STC etc. which does have a bit of shift and combine it with nodal point stitching and focus on one tech cam lens to start with.

For nodal point stitching I'd recommend not to skimp on the tripod head. You buy these once every 10 years and Arca Swiss is generally the standard, they have clicked pano head versions. Then you buy a RRS pano rail and before you shoot you fix the lens at the nodal position for that specific lens by moving the body back on the tripod head.

Julian Calverley has been shooting large stitched panos with his STC and a RRS rail and an Arca head for the last decade or so - no new gear needed after acquiring 1 cam, 1 lens, one head, plus the rail.

You can also do nodal point stitching with your XF, but then you don't use tech cam glass which is sharper and you also have arguably a bulkier setup to carry around.

Arca also does the Factum, which could be the cheapest alternative as their mounting system is cheap and the Factum is cheap too.
 
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JeRuFo

Active member
Another option would be to abandon the IQ4 and downgrade to a Fuji GFX and to use a tilt-shift lens. The movements will be limited, you'd have to see if that is not too limiting. There are plenty of nice portrait options for the GFX as well. The complete setup would be lighter too, and you gain IBIS. There are T-S lenses for Phase One too, but the options are limited (and the old 45mm is pretty terrible).
I have shot quite a bit with the RRS-system, but I prefer flat stitching, especially for busy scenes. For sweeping vistas either will work. Having to deal with stitching and perspective made me use the pano rails less and less.
 

doccdiamond

Member
Another option would be to abandon the IQ4 and downgrade to a Fuji GFX and to use a tilt-shift lens. The movements will be limited, you'd have to see if that is not too limiting. There are plenty of nice portrait options for the GFX as well. The complete setup would be lighter too, and you gain IBIS. There are T-S lenses for Phase One too, but the options are limited (and the old 45mm is pretty terrible).
I have shot quite a bit with the RRS-system, but I prefer flat stitching, especially for busy scenes. For sweeping vistas either will work. Having to deal with stitching and perspective made me use the pano rails less and less.
Once you entered the P1 territory downgrading is quite painfull... And combine it with some Rodies...- you are lost ;)

Just add an ALPA Pano with one suitable lens if the IQ4 is already yours for this application...- the big (financial) step is usually the IQ!
 

4x5Australian

Well-known member
I routinely stitch three frames in vertical (portrait) orientation with my Cambo WRS 1200 + IQ4 outfit.

The WRS 1000 and WRS 1200/1250 provide rear fall of -25mm, rise of 15mm and 20mm of lateral shift each way, left and right. They are compact, lightweight and inexpensive.

My WRS 1200 with the optional Arca-fit tripod mount weighs just 817g.

Lenses such as the SK 60XL and 120 Aspheric and longer 4x5 film lenses such as the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S 5.6/135 and SK Apo-Symmar 5.6/150 have image circles of ample size for a three-frame stitch. They too are compact, lightweight and, depending on the lens, relatively inexpensive.

If lateral shift of 20mm each way is insufficient, the older Cambo Wide DS can be turned 90 degrees (using the tripod mount in its large handle) and gives 34mm right + 15mm left (I think) with a digital rear plate installed.

Rod
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I think there’s a monetary constraint as per the OPs initial post, with a little contradiction :) as the XT is actually more costly as a system via their lenses; this said, you could get a Factum or Cambo for less than 2k and a used 40HR in the 4-5k range and then a medium sized Arca had with clicks and the RRS rail.

7.5-8.5k all in for a kit that will last a long time.
 

JeRuFo

Active member
Once you entered the P1 territory downgrading is quite painfull... And combine it with some Rodies...- you are lost ;)

Just add an ALPA Pano with one suitable lens if the IQ4 is already yours for this application...- the big (financial) step is usually the IQ!
I'm very well aware. But it's good to stay a bit pragmatic from time to time too. It's often want vs need. Wanting to take the image on a certain platform can push you, but it can also mean missing a few or even end in frustration. I'm a big fan of limiting myself to get the creative juices flowing, that's why I often walk around with very impractical cameras. But if I have to do a long trek and want to make sure I can get certain images I need to get, they sometimes have to wait it out.
Once out and about the theoretical quality of the file a system can produce is not always paramount.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
If budget allows, the Alpa system is fantastic for panos. I used the STC and multi shot panos were a piece of cake with it. You can use the gearing for precise movements, or there’s a little switch you can flip to unlock the gear and freely move it left/right from center with ease until you lock it back down. Super small footprint too for the body.
 

dchew

Well-known member
What panorama ratio do you want to shoot? 2-2.5:1 is quite easy and quick to do with a technical camera.

I cover the basics of panoramic stitching with a technical camera in the fourth article about technical cameras:
Technical Cameras - Using Movements in the Field
Shifting to make wider panos than 2.5:1 becomes more challenging. You have the IQ4150, so there is a practical limit of even the best lenses around 120mm diagonal. A 3:1 ratio uncropped would be 120x40mm, and an image circle of 126.5. That's larger than most modern lenses can accomplish, although you could probably find some sharp 4x5 lenses that could be mounted, but that takes some investigation and there won't be much on the wide end.

A few things to think about:
  • How wide do you want the panoramas to be? If wider than 2.5:1, you will probably be nodal stitching and there is not much benefit to a technical camera approach.
  • When in the field, do you prefer shifting the back or nodal stitching? Each has its benefits and drawbacks.
  • Do you want super-wide panos like 180 degrees? That's usually nodal stitching territory.
As for cost, you've already bought the most expensive piece, so in my opinion, get what matches how you like to work in the field. For example, Alpa's quick release @tcdeveau mentioned above is extremely handy. But that is in the context of the answers to the above bullets, which are way more important.

Dave
 
First off, welcome.

Secondly, to your question:

1) The XT system is actually more expensive and more limited, the native XT glass is priced at the highest level in the market and the lack of other bodies is limiting;

2) You need to decide whether you want to flat stitch in a tech cam - cleanest approach and for that you should go with a brand which has most shift ways or whether you want to use nodal point stitching.

3) One approach could be to use a smaller tech cam like the XT, Alpa STC etc. which does have a bit of shift and combine it with nodal point stitching and focus on one tech cam lens to start with.

For nodal point stitching I'd recommend not to skimp on the tripod head. You buy these once every 10 years and Arca Swiss is generally the standard, they have clicked pano head versions. Then you buy a RRS pano rail and before you shoot you fix the lens at the nodal position for that specific lens by moving the body back on the tripod head.

Julian Calverley has been shooting large stitched panos with his STC and a RRS rail and an Arca head for the last decade or so - no new gear needed after acquiring 1 cam, 1 lens, one head, plus the rail.

You can also do nodal point stitching with your XF, but then you don't use tech cam glass which is sharper and you also have arguably a bulkier setup to carry around.

Arca also does the Factum, which could be the cheapest alternative as their mounting system is cheap and the Factum is cheap too.
Many thanks, Paul, for such a thorough reply. Absolutely, a combination of flat and nodal makes a lot of sense. In fact, what I'm looking for is 'extending' some of my captures while having a clean output in light and perspective. I agree that the ALPA STC, a pano head, and a rail are the setup to go. Yet, how much is an STC these days? $5k the body alone? Plus, $5k for a lens might be way too high for me at the moment...
 
Another option would be to abandon the IQ4 and downgrade to a Fuji GFX and to use a tilt-shift lens. The movements will be limited, you'd have to see if that is not too limiting. There are plenty of nice portrait options for the GFX as well. The complete setup would be lighter too, and you gain IBIS. There are T-S lenses for Phase One too, but the options are limited (and the old 45mm is pretty terrible).
I have shot quite a bit with the RRS-system, but I prefer flat stitching, especially for busy scenes. For sweeping vistas either will work. Having to deal with stitching and perspective made me use the pano rails less and less.
Thanks JeRufo! Definitely moving to a different system is not an option. I love the IQ4 rendering for landscapes, portraits, and close-ups!
 
Once you entered the P1 territory downgrading is quite painfull... And combine it with some Rodies...- you are lost ;)

Just add an ALPA Pano with one suitable lens if the IQ4 is already yours for this application...- the big (financial) step is usually the IQ!
Sure thing! But investing $10k+ at the moment is not an option!
 
I routinely stitch three frames in vertical (portrait) orientation with my Cambo WRS 1200 + IQ4 outfit.

The WRS 1000 and WRS 1200/1250 provide rear fall of -25mm, rise of 15mm and 20mm of lateral shift each way, left and right. They are compact, lightweight and inexpensive.

My WRS 1200 with the optional Arca-fit tripod mount weighs just 817g.

Lenses such as the SK 60XL and 120 Aspheric and longer 4x5 film lenses such as the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S 5.6/135 and SK Apo-Symmar 5.6/150 have image circles of ample size for a three-frame stitch. They too are compact, lightweight and, depending on the lens, relatively inexpensive.

If lateral shift of 20mm each way is insufficient, the older Cambo Wide DS can be turned 90 degrees (using the tripod mount in its large handle) and gives 34mm right + 15mm left (I think) with a digital rear plate installed.

Rod
Your Cambo setup sounds appealing! What sort of adapters do you use for the P1 back? How about the lens synch? I think that the -20mm to 20mm shift might be enough for what I'm looking for. And moneywise, everything would be by the $5, am I right? Many thanks!
 
I think there’s a monetary constraint as per the OPs initial post, with a little contradiction :) as the XT is actually more costly as a system via their lenses; this said, you could get a Factum or Cambo for less than 2k and a used 40HR in the 4-5k range and then a medium sized Arca had with clicks and the RRS rail.

7.5-8.5k all in for a kit that will last a long time.
Fair enough! Yes, it was contradictory to mention how the XT doesn't fit my style while saying that I consider the ALPA my go-to system. I hope my comments have made everything clearer!
 
If budget allows, the Alpa system is fantastic for panos. I used the STC and multi shot panos were a piece of cake with it. You can use the gearing for precise movements, or there’s a little switch you can flip to unlock the gear and freely move it left/right from center with ease until you lock it back down. Super small footprint too for the body.
Thanks! How much an STC system is going by these days? I think that a complete ALPA system is above the $10k mark, which is definitely out of my budget
 
Are you creating pano's because you don't have a wide enough lens to address the scene? Or are you doing pano's for increased resolution - like shooting 4 images with 80mm and stitching vs taking one shot with 35mm?
This is a great question! I want to make the panos because for some captures, I need to 'extend' the picture ratio to 2:1 to 2.5:1. It's not only a matter of a wide lens but of proportion. I can crop it in post, but of course I want to use the full IQ4 power!
 
What panorama ratio do you want to shoot? 2-2.5:1 is quite easy and quick to do with a technical camera.

I cover the basics of panoramic stitching with a technical camera in the fourth article about technical cameras:
Technical Cameras - Using Movements in the Field
Shifting to make wider panos than 2.5:1 becomes more challenging. You have the IQ4150, so there is a practical limit of even the best lenses around 120mm diagonal. A 3:1 ratio uncropped would be 120x40mm, and an image circle of 126.5. That's larger than most modern lenses can accomplish, although you could probably find some sharp 4x5 lenses that could be mounted, but that takes some investigation and there won't be much on the wide end.

A few things to think about:
  • How wide do you want the panoramas to be? If wider than 2.5:1, you will probably be nodal stitching and there is not much benefit to a technical camera approach.
  • When in the field, do you prefer shifting the back or nodal stitching? Each has its benefits and drawbacks.
  • Do you want super-wide panos like 180 degrees? That's usually nodal stitching territory.
As for cost, you've already bought the most expensive piece, so in my opinion, get what matches how you like to work in the field. For example, Alpa's quick release @tcdeveau mentioned above is extremely handy. But that is in the context of the answers to the above bullets, which are way more important.

Dave
Will look carefully at your article, dchew! Many thanks for sharing! Definitely not looking for more than 2.5:1 images. I haven't thought that much about shifting vs nodal. Will carefully read about the pros and cons of each method!
 

4x5Australian

Well-known member
Your Cambo setup sounds appealing!
Yes, I really like my WRS outfit. I came to it from another brand.

The WRS system is well-designed, machined accurately and easy to use. Its minimal depth (front to rear) means that even the shortest focal length lenses are mounted on flat lens mounts, rather than awkward recessed lens mounts. Its light weight allows me to carry it already mounted to my Gitzo tripod, which gives me more room in the backpack for the IQ4 and multiple lenses and, of course, makes set-up faster. The dual orthogonal tubular bubble levels are located next to each other and where they are easy to see. The locks for the lens mount and digital back adapter are simple, reliable and highly visible. Lens changes are reliable and quick. Everything fits together well. Lastly, the two roller-style shift controls are conveniently located and make X-Y shifting fast and easy.

What sort of adapters do you use for the P1 back?
I use the standard Cambo SLW-83 adapter:

The excellent Cambo SLW-C8 adapter cover allows me to keep the adapter on the IQ4 whilst in the Phase One zip case inside my backpack. Yes, it fits inside the Phase One zip case, which provides added protection.

Capture Integration lists these items on its Cambo WRS page at: https://digitalback.com/collections/cambo-wide-rs/cambo-wide-rs

How about the lens synch?
I shoot architecture and use the electronic shutter in the IQ4.
If you need to use the Copal shutter in the lens, the lens can be synched with a cable to the IQ4.

And moneywise, everything would be by the $5, am I right?
You've got me on that expression.
Cambo gear is generally less expensive than say Alpa yet is CNC-machined in-house to high standards. Some items are routinely available used. Capture Integration prices its used gear very competitively.

Rod
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
If you want to get into tech cams, it is not cheap.

But you can optimize.

Choice of brand, lowest vs. highest price, incorporating list price for lenses:

1) Arca
2) Cambo
3) Alpa
4) XT

Arca has a flexible ring based mounting system where you can easily swap lenses yourself once you have some rings and all the tilt functionality is in the body, which saves costs.

Its also easier to adapt older digital lenses like some Sironar Digital lenses or gen I SK like 47 XL etc.

The Alpa, has the highest build quality (I own Alpa, XT and Arca systems) and the most satisfying feel and personally the brand has won me over once I had it in the hands. There's also a thread recently about who buys Alpa which you could look into.

Cambo is very functional, the engineer's choice so to say, ie with a focus on just effective functionality at a good price, but personally it never spoke to me.

So while cost is a factor, consider also feel, if possible and do not skimp on the lens choice especially with the IQ4.

Over time it may be more expeonsive to not directly go for the "end state" of having Rodie or late-gen SK glass (28XL, 43 XL, 60 XL, 120 ASPH - extremely hard to find and expensive) so spending now 4-5k on a 40 HR will go a long way for you as the HR glass will work will with this gen and the next gen of backs still, ie for many years to come.

But cheap it ain't. The fact that you're on IQ4 almost requires you to go the full nine yards, if you can, as its like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari if you don't pair the worlds best photo sensor with great glass.
 
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