Real world 100mp comparison (Hasselblad/Fuji/Phase One)

[dchew]

These were hugely informative, thank you Dave (and to Jack too)!

You are welcome, Ray. I said, "Non-quantitative" because I'm not sure it even rates as qualitative testing.

The outdoor landscape use case is probably the worst for evaluating color. Jack was probably being as kind as he could be dealing with my test photos from an uncontrolled / undocumented environment. At that time, I was also doing some more "color critical" work for Cortina Leathers. That's why I was curious about the difference between the two backs and had my own profiles.

I've been quite happy with the IQ4150's color and associated canned profiles out of C1, so creating my own profiles has thankfully gone into the history book.

Dave

 

[Maxx9photo]

I had them both for a bit and did a non-quantitative test here: Trichromatic vs 3100. Jack Hogan then asked for the raw files and did a bit more quantitative testing in one of his blog posts here: Strollswithmydog/PhaseOne

Dave

To my naked eyes, they're almost identical! How difficult to focus on both backs? I currently set my CFV back tethered to my iPad and it helps tremendously with a big screen.
It's just when you don't have the time set up or at an area where too crowded, having this set up will attract people.

 

[Ray Harrison]

To my naked eyes, they're almost identical! How difficult to focus on both backs? I currently set my CFV back tethered to my iPad and it helps tremendously with a big screen.
It's just when you don't have the time set up or at an area where too crowded, having this set up will attract people.

It’s reasonably straight forward and I’m assuming here you’d be using your Actus or a tech cam. With the IQ3 100 series backs (doesn’t mater which) you can use Capture Pilot on an iPad (or even iPhone if you find that large enough) to judge critical focus and control the camera wirelessly. The backs have live view available and zoom capabilities to judge focus as well. Depending on ambient brightness, I’ve used a loupe too. None of this is really a discreet setup of course.

If you’re on an XF instead, it’s still the same concept but you have a few other capabilities you can bring to bear too (hyperfocal in some cases (to get you close), AF with AF-recompose on the Schneider blue ring lenses (depending on subject, etc)).

In all cases, zooming in on the back’s screen will let you make sure you’re focused where you want to be.

 

[Maxx9photo]

Thanks Ray! I would need a loupe on top of my glasses if I don't have the ability to tether wired or wirelessly.

 

[dchew]

Thanks Ray! I would need a loupe on top of my glasses if I don't have the ability to tether wired or wirelessly.

I've tried various external viewing tools, but have always gone back to just using the LCD with an old Schneider 4x loupe I used to use for viewing slides.

Dave

 

[Paratom]

Some people write that fuji and hassy have different color, even if they share same sensor.
I can not explain, but I know that I love the color from Hassy.
It also shouldnt hurt, that Hassy offers both hardware and raw converter.
of course fuji offers more lenses and more features, but the Hassy offers a nice simple user interface.
I would assume phase to be even better inIQ, but its also a different price class, and different handling.

 

[Ray Harrison]

Some people write that fuji and hassy have different color, even if they share same sensor.
I can not explain, but I know that I love the color from Hassy.
It also shouldnt hurt, that Hassy offers both hardware and raw converter.
of course fuji offers more lenses and more features, but the Hassy offers a nice simple user interface.
I would assume phase to be even better inIQ, but its also a different price class, and different handling.

The sensor itself is really only the beginning of the equation, and while important, doesn’t always predict the final result. It does in some things, certainly, like pixel resolution, light gathering ability, read-off capabilities and the like. But the Sony silicon architecture in the Phase One IQ4 is the same, as I understand it, as that in the GFX 100, the Sony A7Riv (not sure about the ‘v’) and I believe even some of the APS-C Fuji cameras like the X-T4. Obviously, differently sized, of course. But all of the manufacturers have a post sensor pipeline that does the building of the raw files and most of those companies will have tweaked the CFA at least to some degree to meet their own specs and to support their own lenses and use cases (the trichromatic is an example of somewhat intensive tweaking on the older FSI sensors). In the IQ4, for example, Phase uses a field-programmable gate array that lets them do a lot of magic with dual exposure+, frame averaging and the like once it has read the data off of the sensor. Combining that with the raw conversion process itself where curves and color tweaks can be applied help to play a role in how those final images look. Like Hassy, Phase combines their hardware with the raw converter. So it’s all interesting (I think) .

 

[Maxx9photo]

Just like car manufacturers, i.e Toyota and Lexus, both have same engine core but the overall finishing touch make Lexus more expensive than Toyota.

Now, I'm more comparing Toyota vs Lexus vs BMW, same engine class but one has more to offer

 

[Maxx9photo]

Guys,

Since I have sold most of my Hasselblad stuffs (only 907X and 50c II with 3 lenses left), most likely I'm getting closer to jump over to the other eco system which is Phase One.

Lots of consideration, but I think I have found my niche using the view camera, so digital full format MF is the way to go.

What do you guys think? IQ3 is a wise option to start with?

 

[Ray Harrison]

Wise?

It's a really nice choice. I would highly recommend you popping round to Capture Integration (I think you said they were local to you) and have a play. Take it through it's paces. The IQ3 is a great system, though I can only speak to the achromatic back there.

 

[Maxx9photo]

Wise enough to make our wallet empty in deep trouble.

 

[jng]

Wise enough to make our wallet empty in deep trouble.

Welcome to Dante's Inferno - abandon all hope ye who enter here.
John

 

[dchew]

For a view camera setup I would recommend the IQ 3100. Anything earlier than that will be a challenge to focus. It really is a great back. It has more color cast than something like a p65+, so you have to be a little careful. But, in most cases the LCC process works wonderfully.

Dave

 

[Shashin]

If you take an image made with each camera and make 60" prints from each one, the prints will clearly show the difference in the skill of the photographer. Buy the camera that looks the nicest to you. I have found I do my best work with the cameras I think are cool. (Believe it or not, but that is the real world answer...)

 

[SrMphoto]

I like what Bobn2 said on DPR:
I have a theory that photographers produce better photos when they use gear that they are really happy with. And that happiness is a completely personal thing.

 

[schuster]

Some people write that fuji and hassy have different color, even if they share same sensor.

Probably, somewhere on the Web, is a scientific explanation about how the differences between the two are perceived. For me, it's like hearing different recordings of the same piece of music by the same orchestra, or... the difference between the same recording that's been transferred to CD and vinyl, and played through the same amplifiers and speakers. Folks who can hear the difference usually describe one as "cooler" or "neutral," and the other as "warmer" and "richer." More specifically, those two descriptions work for me when comparing Hasselblad, Phase One and Fujifilm images. Using Capture One and Photoshop, I have tried to make one look like the other. Got close, after several hours, but couldn't make a match. All things considered, everything we do in photography is varying degrees of compromise until the end result is as good as we (and/or our clients) can get. (Then, the Art Director throws a 122 line screen on them and they wind up in a magazine making you silently thankful that ads rarely include the names of the photographers who made them.)

 

[MGrayson]

I didn't have the GFX100 and X1D at the same time, but both cameras (and the X2D) overlapped with my Leica S. While I believe that any of these cameras could produce indistinguishable images, sometimes it feels like you "can't get theah from heah". You're just not starting in the same place in RAW converter space (whatever that is). It's not too hard to get the Hassy and Leica images to feel similar (with a little violence done to the reds, default sharpening, and contrast), but the Fuji images were from a different planet. Not bad, certainly. Sometimes striking. Often beautiful. I think some of it is the lens design. I say that only because I felt much more comfortable with images taken with the 250/4. I usually shoot the very wide end, and the GF 23mm left me completely cold.

About Phase One: I made a very serious error. I tried - and loved - the IQ160. When I finally decided to buy a tech camera, back, and lenses, my budget fell short. It was P65+ or IQ140, and I went with the smaller sensor. Not a success. First, I missed the acreage of the bigger sensor, and then the value of the IQ140 plummeted as soon as the Sonys got to 40MP. The last straw was when Phase offered a special upgrade program for owners of the P65+, but not for the IQ140. So I dumped it all JUST before live view became available. Yes, the Leica S had AF and f/2.5 lenses, and that was my justification, but If the IQ3100 had been around, I think I would have stayed with Phase One. Of course, once you fall off that wagon, it's stupidly expensive to get back on, so I'm left with "only" the Leica S3 and Hassy X2D. (I know, tragic, right?)

 

[stngoldberg]

I traded in my Hasselblad H 5 back and all my Hasselblad lenses (I had them all and they were excellent) for a Phase One IQ4 and some phase one lenses.
I much prefer the results I’m getting with the P1 equipment for reasons too numerous to explain here, but I’m not crazy about the weight of the Phase One stuff
Stanley

 

[Maxx9photo]

I traded in my Hasselblad H 5 back and all my Hasselblad lenses (I had them all and they were excellent) for a Phase One IQ4 and some phase one lenses.
I much prefer the results I’m getting with the P1 equipment for reasons too numerous to explain here, but I’m not crazy about the weight of the Phase One stuff
Stanley

The camera is too bulky IMHO, Hasselblad did justice on the design of X series camera. I do hope they will release the successor of CFV back (full frame or 100mp res).

 

[wallpaperviking]

For a view camera setup I would recommend the IQ 3100. Anything earlier than that will be a challenge to focus. It really is a great back. It has more color cast than something like a p65+, so you have to be a little careful. But, in most cases the LCC process works wonderfully.

Dave

I am sure it is out there somewhere but I cannot find it

In your opinion, with proper LCC cleanup, is it possible to achieve the suggested "Shift" movements as suggested by Rodenstock on the IQ3100?

Using the HR Digaron-W 70 mm f/5,6 as an example, is it possible to get ↑ 22 → 19 as suggested on their website?

Have only ever used Canon TS-E lenses, so the world of LCC is new to me..

Thanks so much!