SK digitar 72mm L vs 80mm L vs 90mm N

[rdeloe]

and you absolutly right in term to make your own testing, but for this you have to test both Apo digitar versions, not the componon.
All componons had to be stopp down 2 stopps to get their optical best in dark chamber- only the newer Apo componons were great even wide open.

I owned and used two different copies of the APO-Digitar 80mm f/4... I replaced them both with the APO-Componon 90/4.5 in Makro-Iris mount because the 90mm was better.

Anyway, OP, if you want to see for yourself, there are some Componon-S 80/4 in Makro-Iris on eBay right now you could try. There's one for $160 from a reliable US seller that looks to be in good shape. The one from Korea for $129 looks brand new; it will come off that housing easily. I'd get that one personally.

If you look at pictures of the one that's for sale for $115 (with scratches on the front element so don't get that one), you will notice a strong purple colour in the pictures where it's tilted to show the front element. I've never seen a single-coated Schneider-Kreuznach lens with purple reflections from the coatings, but you can judge for yourself.

To get a Makro-Iris V mount lens on your camera, you need an adapter from V-mount to either 39mm x 1/26th inch thread, or M42x1; these cost $10 from various Chinese eBay sellers. Schneider-Kreuznach sold them too, but they're rare and hard to find. The $10 ones work perfectly. I don't know what camera you're using, but an M42 threaded mount will pass through a Copal 1 lens board hole, and can be held on with a simple M42 threaded ring if the board isn't too thick. Or 39mm x 1/26th is standard "Leica Mount Thread" used in enlarger lenses for small formats.

Good luck with your choice. It's hard to go wrong with these lenses.

 

[Alkibiades]

I owned and used two different copies of the APO-Digitar 80mm f/4... I replaced them both with the APO-Componon 90/4.5 in Makro-Iris mount because the 90mm was better.

Anyway, OP, if you want to see for yourself, there are some Componon-S 80/4 in Makro-Iris on eBay right now you could try. There's one for $160 from a reliable US seller that looks to be in good shape. The one from Korea for $129 looks brand new; it will come off that housing easily. I'd get that one personally.

If you look at pictures of the one that's for sale for $115 (with scratches on the front element so don't get that one), you will notice a strong purple colour in the pictures where it's tilted to show the front element. I've never seen a single-coated Schneider-Kreuznach lens with purple reflections from the coatings, but you can judge for yourself.

To get a Makro-Iris V mount lens on your camera, you need an adapter from V-mount to either 39mm x 1/26th inch thread, or M42x1; these cost $10 from various Chinese eBay sellers. Schneider-Kreuznach sold them too, but they're rare and hard to find. The $10 ones work perfectly. I don't know what camera you're using, but an M42 threaded mount will pass through a Copal 1 lens board hole, and can be held on with a simple M42 threaded ring if the board isn't too thick. Or 39mm x 1/26th is standard "Leica Mount Thread" used in enlarger lenses for small formats.

Good luck with your choice. It's hard to go wrong with these lenses.

I do have the Apo digitar 80 mm in two versions and the componon-S in Schneider aperture mount. I know the small differences very well, and used at Apeture 11 is hard to say what is what, I would say not possible. All componons are a good deal for very less money.

 

[rdeloe]

OP, another option for you to consider if you have an open mind about lenses is the Fujinon EX series. Yes, they are enlarger lenses -- which many people think means they can't be good taking lenses. The EX was the top of the line for Fujinon, and one of their selling features was that they were multi-coated. They flew under the radar in Europe and North America because Rodenstock and Schneider were so prominent. But they were excellent enlarger lenses.

I've used two that are also very strong as taking lenses: the 75mm f/4.5 and the 105mm f/5.6. They both have large image circles. The 75mm is especially interesting because I can shift it 25mm on my 33mm x 44mm GFX 50R sensor. That makes for a circle of good definition of 99mm. The 105mm has an even large image circle. There's also a 90mm in their lineup, but I've never tried it.

Keeping in mind I'm a huge proponent of "Don't listen to other people and try for yourself"... here's a collection of test images at long distances. I have full resolution JPEGs for lots of lenses, including the Fujinon EX enlarger lenses and the ones I've been talking about here. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mIInzlyRvnMKS-MLOEdVjwX5gkNY3Xqn?usp=share_link

The point of focus for most of these is a cell phone tower 4.28 km from my shooting position. I did it that way because when I started using this scene I was interested in enlarger lenses and their performance at distance. For consistency over the years I kept focusing on that spot. The folder for the Fujinon EX lenses has a set of Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Componon HM 90mm f/4.5 images I shot at the same time as a reference.

People who want an "off-the-shelf" solution usually aren't interested in going this far off the beaten path, but I like to give folks options. Having said that, if I had to pick between the EX 75 and a Componon-S 80/4 in Makro-Iris, I'd take the Makro-Iris in large part because I like the mount more. The Fujinon EX lenses have a few minor quirks that have to be addressed when using the lenses as taking lenses.

 

[KC_2020]

I owned and used two different copies of the APO-Digitar 80mm f/4... I replaced them both with the APO-Componon 90/4.5 in Makro-Iris mount because the 90mm was better.

Rob, if you don't mind one related question. Any information would be appreciated.

I own an enlarging lens that is labeled APO - COMPONON HM 4.5 /90 and has MULTICOATING above the SK logo. Is this the same lens ?

I'm looking for a lens in this focal length to use with my Arca Swiss 6X9 and CFV II 50C.

 

[KC_2020]

The Fujinon EX lenses have a few minor quirks that have to be addressed when using the lenses as taking lenses.

Would you care to elaborate ?

 

[daz7]

hm apo componon 90/4.5 and digitar 90/4.5 seems to be the same exact lens:

 

[rdeloe]

Rob, if you don't mind one related question. Any information would be appreciated.

I own an enlarging lens that is labeled APO - COMPONON HM 4.5 /90 and has MULTICOATING above the SK logo. Is this the same lens ?

I'm looking for a lens in this focal length to use with my Arca Swiss 6X9 and CFV II 50C.

As daz7 notes, the optical formula for the APO-Digitar 90/4.5 and the APO-Componon HM 90/4.5 enlarging lens are identical. Both have MC written on them. The difference is the housing. The Digitar comes in a Copal 0 shutter, and in an "iris mount" with Copal 0 threads (so just aperture and no shutter).

It's impossible to say with 100% confidence that the optics in the two lens are absolutely identical. Schneider-Kreuznach was heading for bankruptcy and restructuring around the time these were made. People left, documents were destroyed or lost, and corporate memory went poof. I only have common sense and the balance of evidence from documentation to support my claim that the optics are identical. It does not seem credible to me that Schneider would have used one special "made for digital" glass for the Digitar lenses and some other glass "for enlarging" for your lens, especially when the "enlarging" ones were sold as taking lenses for industrial purposes (along with other variants).

It gets even more complicated with the 90mm line. Schneider-Kreuznach also sold a line of APO-Componon HM 90mm f/4.5 lenses for line scanning and inspection in factories. These are the ones that use the "Makro-Iris" industrial mount. It's an all metal mount that allows you to use the lens reversed very easily if you need that, and which has a V-mount attachment that connects to a vast array of bits and pieces, such as different kinds of tubes and helicals. In their modern brochures, your enlarging lens is called a Type -0026. I have documentation for several of the Makro-Iris industrial versions (Type -0018, Type -0125, and Type -0025). Based on the technical documentation, these last three variants are all very slight "tweaks" of the design for different optimum magnification distances in industrial applications. It gets even more complicated though. My lens is a Type -0024. There is not documentation on these. A friend of mine with contacts inside Schneider America reached out and after much digging someone from Schneider Germany told him that all the Type -0024 variants out there are simply mis-labelled Type -0025. That sounds dubious if I'm honest, but these were being made while the company was in the process of going bankrupt and restructuring, so who knows.

The bottom line is that my APO-Componon HM 90mm f/4.5 Type -0024, which is almost identical optically to your Type -0026, is a superb lens for general photography. It has virtually no chromatic aberration. It's extremely sharp from wide open, right across the 33mm x 44mm area of my GFX 50R. The official image circle is 90mm. It's also tiny. Your CFV II 50C has the same sensor as my GFX 50R, so based on the official image circle you should be able to shift 20mm. I can confirm that on my setup, I get a very clean shift of 20mm at f/11, and that it actually shifts out to 25mm at infinity. That means the circle of good definition could be as large as large as 99mm. I view those last 5mm of shift as for emergencies because image quality is not quite as good as up to 20mm, but it's still very usable depending on the scene.

I don't like using Schneider-Kreuznach enlarger lens housings for taking lenses because of the way they're designed (e.g., if memory servers the front filter thread on yours is in the aperture ring, so when you turn the aperture ring and are using a CPL, you have to readjust the CPL). There may also be a "window" you have to block. Enlarger lenses often have a window that lets light from the enlarger light source illuminate the aperture numbers. I much prefer the industrial Makro-Iris housing. It's all metal and very flexible (easy reversing, takes multiple mounts, tough, small and light).

If you try your enlarger version on your outfit and like it, I would advise you to sell it and buy yourself a Type -0024 APO-Componon HM 90/4.5 in Makro-Iris like mine simply because it's nicer to use that aperture mount. Mind you, if you don't have a problem with your enlarger mount, you are good to go!

By the way, if you're not in the mood to spend on an Arca-Swiss M39 (actually 39mm x 1/26th inch thread) special board for your camera to try out your lens, you can easily mount the lens to a flat Copal 1 board. You'll need to spend the price of a cup of good coffee on a conversion ring that has 39mm x 1/26th inch thread on the inside and M42x1 on the outside. Slip that over the threaded end of your lens, and you can fit the threaded part through a Copal 1 hole. On some Copal 1 boards I've had to lightly sand the hole to make it a tiny bit larger; others it slides right through easily. To lock the lens to the board, you need an M42x1 ring. For some reason I have a handful of M42x1 to Canon EF adapter rings. I use these; I'm sure a more elegant solution exists, but if it works it works. As long as the threading on the lens is long enough, and the board is not too thick at the mount point, this works great. Here's what I mean using a Copal 1 board for the F-Universalis, using a Fujinon EX 75/4.5, which also has 39mm x 1/26th inch thread.

 

[rdeloe]

hm apo componon 90/4.5 and digitar 90/4.5 seems to be the same exact lens:

Yes indeed. Same for the Componon-S 80/4 (as I showed above). You can see the same thing with the APO-Componon HM 60mm f/4 and the APO-Digitar 60mm f/4. The optical design as shown in those technical documents is absolutely identical. Unlike the APO-Componon HM 90mm f/4.5, there are no other optical variants (that I've found anyway, and I've looked). There are however lots of mounts:

• Copal 0 shutter for APO-Digitar 60/4
• Copal 0 iris mount for APO-Digitar 60/4
• Enlarger mount for APO-Componon HM 60/4
• Makro-Iris mount for APO-Componon HM 60/4

I had the APO-Componon HM 60/4 in Makro-Iris. It's a fantastic little lens. However, the image circle is tight (officially 60mm). I was still able to shift 10mm on my GFX 50R. It can be a bit trickier to mount on a GFX setup because it has a short flange distance, but it is possible.

 

[rdeloe]

Would you care to elaborate ?

Fujinon thought hard about what darkroom users needed, and concluded that it would be handy if the lens could be turned almost a full 360 degrees after being mounted to the enlarger. That way if you were standing off to one side, you could just twist the lens to put the numbers where you needed them. This is a fantastic design for darkroom workers, but less so for people who are putting it on and off a board all the time. The first time I mounted it I thought it was broken because it tightened down, and then kept going!

If you leave the lens on a board, it's back to being useful. On my setup, sometimes the tripod is too high for me to be able to see the top of the lens. On my F-Universalis, I can just rotate the board 90 degrees if the lens is fixed. However, someone using a camera where you can't do that (e.g., a Cambo Actus) will appreciate being able to twist the lens to put the "top" of the lens wherever they want.

It is possible to modify the lens to lock it in position so it doesn't rotate anymore, but that's a bit more involved and not recommended for someone who isn't a decently skilled tinkerer.

The other minor concern with these is that they have an illumination window (very common for enlarger lenses). Fortunately, it was very easy to cover the window. There's a small C-shaped plate that has to be unscrewed and rotated one screw position. Doing that covers the window. You can see what I mean in the 2nd picture I posted above.

Talking about these lenses reminded me that I need to get them ready for sale. I haven't used the 75mm and the 105mm since I added a Mamiya N 65mm f/4 L to my lineup. I now have 50mm, 65mm, 90mm and 120mm lenses that are my main ones in this range. The 75mm and 105mm are therefore redundant. When I sell them, I'll ask the buyer if they are using for enlarging or taking. If for taking, I'll move that C-plate so it's ready to go.

By the way, I explained how to mount these in a post just up from here. The simplest way is to use a dedicated board or adapter for 39mm x 1/26th inch thread, but it's handy to be able to throw them onto an M42x1 adapter or attach them to a Copal 1 board using a locking ring.

 

[KC_2020]

Rob thank very much for your generous sharing of information. As the saying goes, ' You are a Scholar and a Gentleman' and I see that you are in fact a scholar by vocation. I've followed your very useful posts here and on DPR for some time.

I will, as you have, make my own determination by testing the lens I already own. I expect I will keep it because it's an old friend, it prints wonderful prints. In my studio it will serve as a reference to test against when I purchase a different version of the lens.

The information on the Fujinons in equally useful and again much appreciated.