Thinking about the Hassi XCD2 plus 2-3 lenses

[GMB]

I am not sure whether I simply "suffer" from GAS or not.

I am a long-term shooter of the Leica S (currently the S007) and have almost all lenses, including the zoom (which is the lens I use most). I also have the M10-R (plus several lenses), and recently got a Canon R6ii (mostly for wildlife and fast action).

I mostly shoot what you would call landscape and travel. In fact, in September, my wife and I began a multi-year trip through South America with our camper truck. Fortunately, the truck is big enough so that I can take plenty of camera toys with me. I do shoot often from or near the truck, where the weight of the system is less an issue, but also on day hikes. On these hikes, I normally take the M10-R with 2-3 lenses, but not the S.

Also, I am not really a tripod guy. I sometimes use it, but I prefer to shoot handheld.

I do love the S system. I think it produces beautiful files. But it does have it drawbacks. Main issue for me is the lack of IBIS. Recently, we camped overlooking a beautiful canyon. Sunset. Perfect light and colors. My wife shot the Canon. All photos tack sharp. I tried the S with the 120. Not a chance even at ISO 1,600. Tripod was not an option because of very strong winds. Monopod did not really improve the situation.

Also, sometimes, I wish I had more resolution.

So I am contemplating several options:

1. Wait for the S4, which is rumored to come out this year or next and should have more MP and IBIS, and be compatible with the legacy S lenses. Pros: Safes money (as most likely I will buy it anyway). Cons: Not sure when it will come out be an be available. Does not help in the meantime.

2. Upgrade to S3. Pros: More MP (and perhaps slightly better dynamic range). Cons: Does not address the IBIS issue, but in fact makes it even woth as 63 MP are more phrone to camera shake than 36 MP). Expensive (cannot find one under 10k).

3. Get the SL2 (or SL3). Pros: Decent IBIS and decent AF. Lenses and camera available on the second hand market. Cons: Not MF. Heavy lenses.

4. Get the XCD2. Pros: Enough MP. Good IBIS. Great colors. Relatively compact lenses. Cons: New system. Price (okay less than Leica but new system from scratch).

5. Get a Canon R5ii (when it comes out). Pros: Will have enough MP. Comparatively cheap. I already have some lenses. Cons: I do not enjoy shooting it.

I should add that I do love the simplicity of the Leica cameras (S, SL, Q and M) over the Canon (and NIKON, Sony, Fuji etc). Each time I shoot with the S, I enjoy the experience. The Canon is a great camera and capable of many things. But while I am happy with the results, I do not really enjoy the shooting experience. I have not tried the XCD2 yet, but from anything that I read or saw on YouTube, I understand its user interface is minimalist and similar to Leica.

Any thoughts appreciated. Also, what lenses would you recommend for the XCD for a basic travel and landscape kit? Anyone here has experience with the zoom?

Cheers. Georg

 

[MGrayson]

Georg,

I have an S3 and almost all of the S lenses. I am never selling them. I use an X2D and a few of the XCD lenses and a few adapted lenses as my main system. The color is lovely - very similar to the S3 with slightly less punchy saturated reds. The optics are superb. I don't love them like I love there S24, S70, and S120, but they are close, and the IBIS and portability make up for it.

I do not use the XCD zoom, but it has a VERY strong following. Everyone loves it. I just seldom shoot in that focal range, and the XCD 45 is small, light, and optically perfect. I have the XCD 120 and XCD 135+1.7x. I don't use them much. The S120 is a joy. The XCD 120 is not. Heavy and bad AF. Anything that long or longer needs manual magnified focus, and even though the focus peaking is good, focus by wire - with its nonlinear response - makes it hard to dial in. I use adapted Mamiya and Zeiss lenses for the longer stuff. Light, sharp, easier to focus.

The XCD 21, 28, 45, and 90 are my usual kit. I don't have the newer 38V and 55V, even though they focus very quickly. The older 45 is enough for me. The XCD 28P is small, light, almost wide enough (I wish they'd make a 24, dammit! At least there is the 21...) and is my "walk out the door with one lens mounted to the camera" choice. It makes a superb, light, and compact kit.

Matt

 

[Paul Spinnler]

One option is to wait for the SL3 which will be announced in a few weeks – Leica has a fiscal year end end of Q1'24 which means the new products always are announced in Q1 to be sold in Q2-3; it will have:

+ 60 megapixels and the new Sony sensor from the M11
+ IBIS of course with supposedly 6+ stops
+ Its own distinct look – colours are different from S
+ Via the S to L adapter you can use all your S glass

So I think to get a cool new camera between now and the S4 which is a 2025 thing according to what I heard from Leica people, the SL3 will be an excellent stop-gap.

When the S4 comes out you will be able to adapt all lenses from Leica, so in a way it will be the end-all Leica camera to own, so by then you will be able to easily sell your SL3 at probably 70% of new or thereabouts if you are lucky.

So IMHO the SL3 is a) a very cool new camera b) the perfect stop-gap drug till the S4 comes and then on top financially, by being able to sell your SL3 mid-cycle and by saving lens costs since there's an adapter – you have actually a great solution up until the s4 comes.

I have the M11 and S3 – there's still a clear difference in quality, but up until the S4 comes the SL3 is a nice thing. The S4 will most likely be a bigger, better SL3, meaning also IBIS, etc.

That's why I recently sold my SL2 – still got 3.5k for it, which is not bad.

 

[GMB]

Thanks Matt and Paul. This is helpful. The idea of the SL3 is intriguing. As I won’t take a decision before going on home vacation in the summer, I have plenty of time to observe what the SL3—assuming it is indeed coming this spring—offers. However, I am less convinced on using S lenses on the SL. But fortunately, there are many used SL lenses available.

Anyway, thanks again for your input.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The new SL3 will implement Phase AF, which means with the Apo SL lenses you'll have very fast AF and follow-focus in video, ideal for action and filming and faster paced portraiture; if you don't need follow-focus or action oriented AF the S lenses are amazing on the SL. They outresolve the sensor and on top you use only the sweet spot ... the AF improved also a lot on the SL2 compared to the SL due to the higher SL2 system processing power available for the S to L adapter interface. It works a lot better on the SL2 than on the SL if you compare them.

This means: chances are with the SL3 its as fast to focus as on a native S as the new camera will most certainly pack more processing power; to be validated ofc.

I think a bit of waiting makes perfect sense!

 

[hcubell]

I am not sure whether I simply "suffer" from GAS or not.

I am a long-term shooter of the Leica S (currently the S007) and have almost all lenses, including the zoom (which is the lens I use most). I also have the M10-R (plus several lenses), and recently got a Canon R6ii (mostly for wildlife and fast action).

I mostly shoot what you would call landscape and travel. In fact, in September, my wife and I began a multi-year trip through South America with our camper truck. Fortunately, the truck is big enough so that I can take plenty of camera toys with me. I do shoot often from or near the truck, where the weight of the system is less an issue, but also on day hikes. On these hikes, I normally take the M10-R with 2-3 lenses, but not the S.

Also, I am not really a tripod guy. I sometimes use it, but I prefer to shoot handheld.

I do love the S system. I think it produces beautiful files. But it does have it drawbacks. Main issue for me is the lack of IBIS. Recently, we camped overlooking a beautiful canyon. Sunset. Perfect light and colors. My wife shot the Canon. All photos tack sharp. I tried the S with the 120. Not a chance even at ISO 1,600. Tripod was not an option because of very strong winds. Monopod did not really improve the situation.

Also, sometimes, I wish I had more resolution.

So I am contemplating several options:

1. Wait for the S4, which is rumored to come out this year or next and should have more MP and IBIS, and be compatible with the legacy S lenses. Pros: Safes money (as most likely I will buy it anyway). Cons: Not sure when it will come out be an be available. Does not help in the meantime.

2. Upgrade to S3. Pros: More MP (and perhaps slightly better dynamic range). Cons: Does not address the IBIS issue, but in fact makes it even woth as 63 MP are more phrone to camera shake than 36 MP). Expensive (cannot find one under 10k).

3. Get the SL2 (or SL3). Pros: Decent IBIS and decent AF. Lenses and camera available on the second hand market. Cons: Not MF. Heavy lenses.

4. Get the XCD2. Pros: Enough MP. Good IBIS. Great colors. Relatively compact lenses. Cons: New system. Price (okay less than Leica but new system from scratch).

5. Get a Canon R5ii (when it comes out). Pros: Will have enough MP. Comparatively cheap. I already have some lenses. Cons: I do not enjoy shooting it.

I should add that I do love the simplicity of the Leica cameras (S, SL, Q and M) over the Canon (and NIKON, Sony, Fuji etc). Each time I shoot with the S, I enjoy the experience. The Canon is a great camera and capable of many things. But while I am happy with the results, I do not really enjoy the shooting experience. I have not tried the XCD2 yet, but from anything that I read or saw on YouTube, I understand its user interface is minimalist and similar to Leica.

Any thoughts appreciated. Also, what lenses would you recommend for the XCD for a basic travel and landscape kit? Anyone here has experience with the zoom?

Cheers. Georg

A few comments addressing your evaluation of the plusses and minuses of the X2D and the other systems you mention. First, you are right that the X2D has a very simple, refined and uncluttered UI. The experience is very much like using an Apple iPhone. You don't need a book or a 45 minute youtube video to set it up, and you won't press the wrong button and screw up the options that you selected. There aren't that many. The camera just gets out of your way and lets you concentrate on your creative vision.
Second, the IBIS system is not just "good." It is exceptional.
Third, the XCD 35-75 zoom, in my experience, the best zoom I have ever used. It is absolutely stellar. Not light, but it actually does equal the performance of prime lenses in its range. I have the XCD 45, 65 and 90mm lenses, and I rarely use them. The zoom is that good.
Fourth, yes, the colors are exceptional.
A Leica S4 is just vaporware at this point. Nobody knows whether it will ever materialize, and if it does, when it will hit the market, at what price, and with what specifications. However, if past experience is any guide to the future, the SL bodies and the SL zooms are relatively big and heavy. An S4 is very unlikely to be more compact.

 

[Ai_Print]

Third, the XCD 35-75 zoom, in my experience, the best zoom I have ever used. It is absolutely stellar. Not light, but it actually does equal the performance of prime lenses in its range. I have the XCD 45, 65 and 90mm lenses, and I rarely use them. The zoom is that good.

I remember you singing this lens’s praises when I was trying to figure out if I was going to keep the 38V and 55V awhile back ( I did not ) but I may have to rent it and give it a whirl. Mounted on the X2D, it seems like it would have a similar stature and weight as a Nikon Z8 with a 50mm 1.2 S, not exactly a compact walk around but one heck of a keep-dust-off-sensor in foul weather solution.

Thanks for reminding me of it again.

 

[PeterA]

Hand Held 1/10th second exposure, ISO 6400 using the 120 macro at F4. The IBIS on the X2D elevated the previous incarnations of the camera to uber levels of fun. I might even try some arty shots on a tripod one day. The color straight out of camera is ridiculously good. Th eonly PP on this was to tone down whites from glaring signs which are more than a mile away as the crow flies.

 

[MGrayson]

I'm warming up to the XCD 120/4. This is not a rolling shutter effect. His face just looked like that...



Matt

 

[PeterA]

120Macro | ISO 100 | 1/40th | f3.5

This Ferris Wheel in Melbourne hasn't functioned for a few years now and apparently is slated for demolition. So I figured it was worth making a shot for posterity. I decided on a B&W low contrast because the pinks and pastel blues in the evening summer sky were a distraction from the graphical quality of the structures.

 

[wattsy]

I remember you singing this lens’s praises when I was trying to figure out if I was going to keep the 38V and 55V awhile back ( I did not ) but I may have to rent it and give it a whirl. Mounted on the X2D, it seems like it would have a similar stature and weight as a Nikon Z8 with a 50mm 1.2 S, not exactly a compact walk around but one heck of a keep-dust-off-sensor in foul weather solution.

It is a really fine lens (I've rented it) and I keep thinking about buying one but I think it is just too large and heavy for the way I use a camera in the field. I travel quite large distances on foot and I prefer to carry a very lightweight Gitzo tripod. The tripod is perfectly fine for my 907x and 45P but the 35-75 is way too unbalanced with that head and legs (I would probably get away with it if the lens had a tripod collar). It's a pity because the 35mm wide end is the closest to my favourite focal length available in the XCD lens line up and having the option of extra reach without changing lenses would be a real bonus.

 

[Paratom]

I dont know anything about the SL3 but I dont expect it to be that much different from the SL2/SL2-S. (yess, a little faster AF, but I doubt Canon/Nikon-fast) And more resolution.
The SL system is faster to use than the Hassy, and offers more flexibility for UWA zoom/ Tele etc.
The x2d has slower AF (still very accurate), takes longer to switch on, and has a longer blackout when taking an image.
The x2d has a very simple user interface, which I do like. Except I miss a joystick.
I would give the edge in IQ to the X2d, specially colors.
If I would shoot mainly landscapes I would prefer the Hassy. The new primes are even smaller than SL-Primes.
For a flexible do it all system I would prefer the SL-System because its faster when things are not still. Thats why I use the SL-System more often than the x2d and might even sell my Hassy-system.
But then you also have the Canon for situations, when things are not still. I use Canon for sports. I do like it, but I have ore fun using Leica or Hassy, in regards of design of the body, feel, lenses, user interface, and colors. I dont think you will be happy logterm with just Canon, as good as Canon is.
Big advantage of SL is you can use your M lenses quite well, but then you can use those on the M.

 

[bab]

if you don't need viewfinder information that's available on most other mirrorless cameras, don't need to set warning for blown highlights in viewfinder, don't use a B&W profile for the viewfinder, don't require a joystick and can live without most mirrorless comfort features the X2D is for you!
IQ is not an issue the effort to obtain it might or might not be.

 

[Paratom]

maybe the viewfinder is not full of icons , histograms etc. , but its one of the biggest and nicest viefinders I have seen so far. I agree the x2d is not the fastest camera, I also miss a joystick, but with the DR and the evf quality I have not had any problems to set exposure in a right way. which other comfort features do you miss?

 

[hcubell]

if you don't need viewfinder information that's available on most other mirrorless cameras, don't need to set warning for blown highlights in viewfinder, don't use a B&W profile for the viewfinder, don't require a joystick and can live without most mirrorless comfort features the X2D is for you!
IQ is not an issue the effort to obtain it might or might not be.

IMO, these missing "comfort features" are crutches for photographers who don't know what they are doing. It's really quite miraculous that all of the extraordinary black and white imagery that has been created over the years was created without a "B&W profile." Same with all of the extraordinary landscape imagery created without a joystick. Sort of like how could anyone drive a car before there were self-drive Teslas.

 

[jduncan]

Georg,

I have an S3 and almost all of the S lenses. I am never selling them. I use an X2D and a few of the XCD lenses and a few adapted lenses as my main system. The color is lovely - very similar to the S3 with slightly less punchy saturated reds. The optics are superb. I don't love them like I love there S24, S70, and S120, but they are close, and the IBIS and portability make up for it.

I do not use the XCD zoom, but it has a VERY strong following. Everyone loves it. I just seldom shoot in that focal range, and the XCD 45 is small, light, and optically perfect. I have the XCD 120 and XCD 135+1.7x. I don't use them much. The S120 is a joy. The XCD 120 is not. Heavy and bad AF. Anything that long or longer needs manual magnified focus, and even though the focus peaking is good, focus by wire - with its nonlinear response - makes it hard to dial in. I use adapted Mamiya and Zeiss lenses for the longer stuff. Light, sharp, easier to focus.

The XCD 21, 28, 45, and 90 are my usual kit. I don't have the newer 38V and 55V, even though they focus very quickly. The older 45 is enough for me. The XCD 28P is small, light, almost wide enough (I wish they'd make a 24, dammit! At least there is the 21...) and is my "walk out the door with one lens mounted to the camera" choice. It makes a superb, light, and compact kit.

Matt

Hi,
Since I have nothing more to add, just an up-vote.

Best regards

 

[jduncan]

View attachment 209980

Hand Held 1/10th second exposure, ISO 6400 using the 120 macro at F4. The IBIS on the X2D elevated the previous incarnations of the camera to uber levels of fun. I might even try some arty shots on a tripod one day. The color straight out of camera is ridiculously good. Th eonly PP on this was to tone down whites from glaring signs which are more than a mile away as the crow flies.

Hi,
Very nice picture, I love the water, the composition in general.
Best regards

 

[MGrayson]

IMO, these missing "comfort features" are crutches for photographers who don't know what they are doing. It's really quite miraculous that all of the extraordinary black and white imagery that has been created over the years was created without a "B&W profile." Same with all of the extraordinary landscape imagery created without a joystick. Sort of like how could anyone drive a car before there were self-drive Teslas.

Ansel Adams would have LOVED Photoshop. He devised his own technologies for printing 8x10 negatives and would have gladly embraced anything more advanced. Pianists of the 19th century were thrilled any time a new piano came out. Beethoven wrote the Hammerklavier Sonata just because his new piano (called the Hammerklavier, not coincidentally) could take a lot more punishment. IMHO, every keyboard player since 1500 would have killed for a modern Steinway.

Just my 2p,

Matt

 

[GMB]

IMO, these missing "comfort features" are crutches for photographers who don't know what they are doing. It's really quite miraculous that all of the extraordinary black and white imagery that has been created over the years was created without a "B&W profile." Same with all of the extraordinary landscape imagery created without a joystick. Sort of like how could anyone drive a car before there were self-drive Teslas.

If I wanted to shoot like Ansel Adams did at his time, I would get a 10*8 view camera, hire a few horses and assistance, and schlepp my equipment up a mountain. But I don’t. Hence, when I buy a digital camera, I prefer it to offer the tools that make my life easier and allow me to get the shots I want to get. Hence, my search for IBIS, as something I am missing with the S. (I know my way around such as using a tripod or monopod but if I can do without these 2, so much the better).

I haven’t used the x2D and thus don’t know whether a joystick is something I would miss. Being able to have a histogram in the viewfinder is something I would like to have.
As to your comparison with cars, I had a Jaguar E-Type. Gorgeous car. Loved to drive it. But in order to get me from A to B in bad safely and comfortably every day much preferred a modern car.
Georg

 

[Ai_Print]

IMO, these missing "comfort features" are crutches for photographers who don't know what they are doing. It's really quite miraculous that all of the extraordinary black and white imagery that has been created over the years was created without a "B&W profile." Same with all of the extraordinary landscape imagery created without a joystick. Sort of like how could anyone drive a car before there were self-drive Teslas.

Yeah....but then you would actually need to have talent. Why do all that when you can just pretend you have it and have a computer do everything for you? I mean, lets just photoshop, AI varnish and democratize everything so everyone can *think* they are a master of anything they want as they bathe in the soothing oooze of endless online praise