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Thread: My Take on the new Leica SL2

  1. #51
    Senior Member bab's Avatar
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I havent compared directly but I have owned an A7II some years ago, and tested a Z7 and owned a Z6 for some weeks and a S1r for some months.

    Unscientific I think the Z6 has a little better C-AF than the SL(2) and S1r. In S-AF I find all those cams quite fast in S-AF, good for my kids at sports or my dog occasionally.

    If one wants to shoot a lot of action and sports I assume the Sony A9 or a Nikon D5 or D1x.... would be the logical choice.
    C-AF in contrast AF cams is still a compromise. On the other side speed and accurancy in S-AF is very good.
    Fair enough answer I have been a Leica owner and enthusiast for almost 40 years, I love the simplicity of the equipment. As with most people the older we get the worst our eyes are at critical focusing. I have run some tests and besides the normal issues anyone would have due to vibration, shake, low s/s I found I canít manually focus hand held to satisfy my needs. Therefore a camera must check that box for me, the only way I have been able to nail focus manually is by shooting rapid bursts adjusting my position ever so slightly with the front middle back method. What does appeal to me is the resolution of the viewfinder and back lcd. I think the IBIS will be one of the most appealing proís of the SL2!
    Thanks
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by bab View Post
    Fair enough answer I have been a Leica owner and enthusiast for almost 40 years, I love the simplicity of the equipment. As with most people the older we get the worst our eyes are at critical focusing. I have run some tests and besides the normal issues anyone would have due to vibration, shake, low s/s I found I canít manually focus hand held to satisfy my needs. Therefore a camera must check that box for me, the only way I have been able to nail focus manually is by shooting rapid bursts adjusting my position ever so slightly with the front middle back method. What does appeal to me is the resolution of the viewfinder and back lcd. I think the IBIS will be one of the most appealing proís of the SL2!
    Thanks
    Ditto. I'm in a similar position. The IBIS is what could make it for me.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    IBIS, improved viewfinder, Leica simplicity in user interface, and good ability to use M lenses, ... and more important (IMO) quality of SL lenses... I am in
    and the body feels really good in my hands

    most important: looks similar to SL - so I can smuggle it in my home without getting questions why I would need a new camera
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Hi Jono,
    is that true, the sl2 doesn't have any sensor shake/cleaning system to prevent from dust?
    I'm very interested by this camera, but only to support my M lenses... As a fix focal user I change a lot my lenses and encountour too much dust on my Ms.. Cannot imagine moving to the Sl2 and it's direct sensor, without a cleaner system..

    So is it true? I can't find this information anywhere, but,

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    It has a sensor shake for dust removal. There was a discussion on the LUF on whether it could be turned off, but apparently it is always executed when the camera is turned on.
    pre 2015: http://www.pbase.com/skirkp
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Hi Jono,
    is that true, the sl2 doesn't have any sensor shake/cleaning system to prevent from dust?
    I'm very interested by this camera, but only to support my M lenses... As a fix focal user I change a lot my lenses and encountour too much dust on my Ms.. Cannot imagine moving to the Sl2 and it's direct sensor, without a cleaner system..

    So is it true? I can't find this information anywhere, but,
    HI There
    Scott has answered this one (I didnít actually know the answer Iím ashamed to admit!).
    I can see there is a lot of interest in using the camera for M lenses, and I only dealt with it rather cursorily in my article. So Iím going to do another article dealing with this specifically. Iíll try and get it finished over the weekend.

    All the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    When sensor clean and IBIS were first combined a few years ago, the dust was unimpressed (or slightly amused; I couldn't tell which). The motors just couldn't shake the sensor at a high enough frequency. Something changed in the last few years (an extra ultrasonic motor?) and both functions coexist effectively. I have not tried it on the SL2, but have noticed this in other cameras with IBIS and sensor clean.

    Matt

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    Senior Member bab's Avatar
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    True dust sensor cleaning will not work and should be turned off a can of air and or sensor stuck is the only things you need.

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Today's R-R is a BMW with added bling.

    Most of today's Bentleys are VW/Audis with added bling, though there is still a V8 model available.

    Neither has much residue, apart from the names, from former models.
    Bit of a simplification. R-R Cars are part of BMW group (licensing the name for use on cars from Rolls Royce PLC, the much larger power generation group). Pretty well all the oily and silicon bits of Rolls Royce cars are designed and built by BMW in Germany but on a unique platform, not shared with any BMW (that was not true of the previous generation Ghost which was pretty heavily based on the BMW 7 series). Final assembly is at Goodwood in England which basically contributes the cabinet making, upholstery and paintwork - that sort of thing.

    Bentley is a bit different. It has a similar autonomy within the VW group to Seat, Skoda or Porsche, so basically Crewe designs and engineers and assembles Bentleys but using the VW group parts bin. The previous generation Continental/Flying Spur were heavily based on the VW Phaeton but Bentley had as much input into the shared platform used for current models as Porsche. Crewe is the only place in the VW Group making 12 cylinder engines (originally designed for said Phaeton which was not a commercial success). The V8 engine used in the Mulsanne is actually a derivative of the legacy RR/Bentley V8 (not to be confused with generic VW group V8 used by Porsche, Bentley etc).

    I presume you also believe the Bugatti Cheyron (also part of VW group) is a re-skinned VW Golf GTI

    This is modern day manufacturing - the parallels with the L mount Alliance are evident.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Medium format pricing for a full frame camera, Not acceptable to me

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    When sensor clean and IBIS were first combined a few years ago, the dust was unimpressed (or slightly amused; I couldn't tell which). The motors just couldn't shake the sensor at a high enough frequency. Something changed in the last few years (an extra ultrasonic motor?) and both functions coexist effectively. I have not tried it on the SL2, but have noticed this in other cameras with IBIS and sensor clean.

    Matt
    I'm going on hints that i read in various places. I know that the IBIS is designed to move the sensor at the frequencies that humans apply. There is a whole spec for it that is the source of the number of stops gain that manufactures allow each other to quote. All you have to do is compensate successfully for a single minute-long trace that has been blessed for this purpose as representing typical users. Since Panasonic and Leica appear to be doing better than average I am sure that they do more. But shaking dust off is not part of this. That needs a separate very thin layer which I believe is part of the extra thin glass sandwich on top of the sensor. It probably operates in the 100s of kiloherz. Maybe this accounts for the difference in glass thickness between M10 and SLs.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by eddystone View Post
    Bit of a simplification. R-R Cars are part of BMW group (licensing the name for use on cars from Rolls Royce PLC, the much larger power generation group). Pretty well all the oily and silicon bits of Rolls Royce cars are designed and built by BMW in Germany but on a unique platform, not shared with any BMW (that was not true of the previous generation Ghost which was pretty heavily based on the BMW 7 series). Final assembly is at Goodwood in England which basically contributes the cabinet making, upholstery and paintwork - that sort of thing.

    Bentley is a bit different. It has a similar autonomy within the VW group to Seat, Skoda or Porsche, so basically Crewe designs and engineers and assembles Bentleys but using the VW group parts bin. The previous generation Continental/Flying Spur were heavily based on the VW Phaeton but Bentley had as much input into the shared platform used for current models as Porsche. Crewe is the only place in the VW Group making 12 cylinder engines (originally designed for said Phaeton which was not a commercial success). The V8 engine used in the Mulsanne is actually a derivative of the legacy RR/Bentley V8 (not to be confused with generic VW group V8 used by Porsche, Bentley etc).

    I presume you also believe the Bugatti Cheyron (also part of VW group) is a re-skinned VW Golf GTI

    This is modern day manufacturing - the parallels with the L mount Alliance are evident.
    A simplification perhaps. I preferred the L-series V8 and all that went with it. RR and B stopped being 'original' in the early noughties.
    SlŠinte

    Robert.

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    M lenses, as great as they are, arenít the pinnacle of lens design they once were. The SL lenses are better (technically anyway) by every sense of the measure and many competitors have exceeded Leica or gotten close enough to lens design that itíll likely take pixel peeping to tell the difference. In any case I think much of the debate is purely for the photographers enjoyment so to that I say use what makes you happy and donít look back. Those M lenses could easily fund your next kit should you choose to sell.
    I couldn't agree more, in regards to the optical quality of the SL lenses vs M.
    But referencing the new SL2, yesterday, I had the opportunity to play with a neighbors just arrived SL2. I had brought along my SL 24-90 Zoom and promptly snapped it into the camera's mount. Before I'd even powered up, something immediately struck me as odd; I, like many photographers, are accustomed to supporting heavy camera/lens combinations with my/our left hand beneath the lens. And when I did that I realized that I cannot effectively use the left sided, rear mounted buttons, and to do so I had to substitute my left hand with my right, an inefficient use of time and energy. While the left sided design might work well for the lighter APS-C Leica that can be managed in a one-handed fashion, no so with the SL2. Anyone else find this an issue?
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by ron787 View Post
    I couldn't agree more, in regards to the optical quality of the SL lenses vs M.
    But referencing the new SL2, yesterday, I had the opportunity to play with a neighbors just arrived SL2. I had brought along my SL 24-90 Zoom and promptly snapped it into the camera's mount. Before I'd even powered up, something immediately struck me as odd; I, like many photographers, are accustomed to supporting heavy camera/lens combinations with my/our left hand beneath the lens. And when I did that I realized that I cannot effectively use the left sided, rear mounted buttons, and to do so I had to substitute my left hand with my right, an inefficient use of time and energy. While the left sided design might work well for the lighter APS-C Leica that can be managed in a one-handed fashion, no so with the SL2. Anyone else find this an issue?
    Are you referring to the Play|Fn|Menu buttons? if so:

    I find the three button system on my SL2 much easier to navigate and use than the previous four button with multiple press combinations to remember and use. However this 'much easier' is pretty redundant for my shooting style since I don't muck around with any buttons/dials when composing and shooting except for those associated with the exposure triangle and focus - so when it comes to SL or SL2 shooting - I use the joystick to choose focus point ( right hand) and shutter speed/aperture/EXpComp all are accessed via right hand dials or buttons. As far as the three buttons on left - they are largely redundant in shooting circumstances and the excellent GUI interface makes them almost totally redundant in set up processes.

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Are you referring to the Play|Fn|Menu buttons? if so:

    I find the three button system on my SL2 much easier to navigate and use than the previous four button with multiple press combinations to remember and use. However this 'much easier' is pretty redundant for my shooting style since I don't muck around with any buttons/dials when composing and shooting except for those associated with the exposure triangle and focus - so when it comes to SL or SL2 shooting - I use the joystick to choose focus point ( right hand) and shutter speed/aperture/EXpComp all are accessed via right hand dials or buttons. As far as the three buttons on left - they are largely redundant in shooting circumstances and the excellent GUI interface makes them almost totally redundant in set up processes.
    Yes, the 3 buttons on the left. If they result in redundancy, then it may be a non issue but, if not, their placement is awkward for those accustomed to supporting a long and heavy lens from its underside with their left hands. Left hand underside lens support is an approach that I've used for my past 60 or more years in photography, and it has served me well.

    Beyond that, from a personal perspective, I find physical buttons and levers to be more effective for outdoor work than touch screens. No matter how hard the developers try, LCD screens offer poor visibility in direct sunlight, while in a normally lit studio they are fine. But that is where choice comes into play, and we are fortunate to have numerous photographic options available to us. And while I had owned and used just about every Leica film camera and pre-SL2 digital, I have lost interest in Leica's philosophical approach and, with the exception of my remaining SL lenses, have moved on.

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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    I was someone voting to keep the 4 button design, but must say the new button design of Leica works relativly well for me so I got used to the 3 buttons.
    The 2 front buttons are very very well placed for my hands. The 2 buttons which I find to small are the ones on the top plate.

    I still find that the old M8/M9 with dedicated ISO/WB/Play buttons in one row was a very clear design.
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  17. #67
    Member Jay Emm's Avatar
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    Re: My Take on the new Leica SL2

    Thanks for your review Jono, I felt well informed after reading this (and the follow up comments here)

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