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Thread: How stupid is my "project" ????

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    How stupid is my "project" ????

    Hi,

    I'm turning to this very knowledgeable forum for advice on a project of mine.

    I own a SINAR f with a P2 back standard that I use occasionally in combination with my Oly E-M5 via sliding insert like this : Nikon DSLR Digital Back Adapter FOR 4x5" Large Format Camera D4 D7000 DF D7000 | eBay

    I make panoramas and close-ups with this setup, with a Sironar 150 or 240 lens.

    I would like to go some wider for landscapes ... and came across these lenses :

    Rodenstock Grandagon-N 65mm f4,5

    Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f4,5
    Rodenstock Sironar-N 360mm f6,8


    That I could buy as a set for less than 1000 Euro in excellent condition - hardly used ...

    Are these very good lenses ???
    Is it realistic to hope to stitch panoramas and landscape photos with these lenses in combination with the E-M5 ?
    Will I be able to get infinity focus with the 65 and 90 lens, taking into account that I do own a wide-angle bellows ???

    TIA for any advice !

    CU,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Those lenses are good but BIG lenses, and the set price seems quite affordable, however I like slower lenses because of size considerations. F5.6 - F8 lenses are smaller and possibly a bit cheaper. But really in my opinion LF lenses should be used with LF film.... But you choose and have experience of the Sinar F and Sironars. The 360 has a huge image circle. You know best I think according to your previous experiments.
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Well, a 360mm lens is not going to be wide. You could use your 150mm and 240mm lenses in that case.

    As far as reaching infinity, you can figure that out. Get the specs for the lens--you should find them in the internet and find out the distance from the rear of the lens to the image/film plane. Then you need to know the flange distance of your camera, the thickness of the adapter (from the front to the mount), and the minimum distance between the standards. If those add up to less than the distance from the rear of the lens, you are OK.

    Another way to think about shorter focal lengths is to try to make or buy a lens board with a medium-format mount. Mamiya RB/RZ 67 or Pentax 67 lenses have long flange distances and the lenses do not protrude passed the lens board. You still need to know how much space you have on your camera with the adapter. Or get something like the Rhino cam.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    thank you both ! Very interesting info !

    The 360 is of course not wide ... but part of the deal. Might even come in handy for close-up shots, or I might sell it ...

    I checked the weight of the WA lenses, with 330 and 700 gr respectively, I have carried around worse ... Anyway, no projects for hiking with this setup.

    I'm going to do my mathematics when back home (on holidays now) to see about infinity focus.

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    As far as reaching infinity, you can figure that out. Get the specs for the lens--
    you should find them in the internet and find out the distance from the rear of the lens to the image/film plane.
    You'll seldom find that distance on a regular lens datasheet. You will find it on comprehensive multi-page datasheets like from Hasselblad / Zeiss.

    The common parameter that is published for all(?) lenses is the Flange Focal Length, Flange Focal Distance, or similar name.
    That is the distance from the front of the film to the front of the lensboard when focused at infinity.

    Those values for your three lenses are:

    63,5mm for the Rodenstock Grandagon-N 65mm f4,5
    88,5mm for the Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f4,5
    116,5mm for the Rodenstock Sironar-N 360mm f6,8 (yes, 116,5mm... it's a telephoto design)

    Your F/P2 Sinar may not compress enough to handle the two shorter lenses even with a bag bellows.
    The solution is to use recessed lensboards for those lenses. Even that might not work for the 65. I don't know.

    You may find enough geometric distortion with the 65mm Grandagon to impair your stitching abilities.
    The fact that your imaging system is small-format, which ignores the outer areas of the image circle, will mitigate this problem.

    - Leigh
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    I have the 65mm f4.5 and the 90mm F4.5 mounted DB Sinar board on a P2 Sinar.

    Sinar has the WIDE ANGLE BELLOWS 2 4x5"/10x12.5cm cat. number455.46, you will this bellow so you can focus at infinity with some possible camera displacement.

    They are fine lenses. Michel
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Those lenses mentioned are indeed some of the best LF lenses. I, however hike and travel with gear on my back so a Sinar F would definitely be a no go. Therefore I carry a Graflex Crown Graphic. Cheap and small. Has graflock back when I want to try digital. By the way, I shoot 6x9 film in color with a 65mm and that one gives a nice wide angle look on that format. When I shoot 4x5 with that lens it would be a super-wide angle. And with digital close to normal. Stitching would be interesting, but I like to pop in a film holder and get it all on a piece of film.
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Grandagon 65mm flange distance 70mm, lens length 63.5mm
    Grandagon 90mm flange distance 89mm, lens length 88.5mm

    The 360mm Sinronar N is NOT a telephoto design. It has a flange distance a little shorter than its focal length. Leigh is giving you the lens length, not the flange distance.

    The Grandagons are fairly symmetrical lenses and so you can probably simple halve the length to figure out how much space you have. I am sure Rodenstock would supply the actual number if you asked. I would not be surprised someone on the internet has it. The number I got was from a 10 second search on the Rodenstock site.
    Will

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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Leigh is giving you the lens length, not the flange distance.
    You're correct. I grabbed the wrong column off the datasheet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Grandagon 65mm flange distance 70mm, lens length 63.5mm
    Grandagon 90mm flange distance 89mm, lens length 88.5mm
    The correct values are:

    70mm for the Rodenstock Grandagon-N 65mm f4,5
    98mm for the Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f4,5 (not 89mm)
    333mm for the Rodenstock Sironar-N 360mm f6,8

    My error. Apologies for the screw-up.

    - Leigh
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Leigh, if we keep posting, sooner or later we will just have to get the right values.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    f6cvalkyrie

    Don't you get any problems with lens cast or vignetting ?
    How many FT images do you stitch and how much movement
    do you use ?
    Do you make single row or multirow ?

    Martin

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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Hi, Martin,

    so far, I'm using the 150mm, and 'scanning' the projected image by moving either the adapter or the back standard sidewards and upwards. Doing so, I experience no problems, movements being rather restricted (only shifts, no tilts).
    I use single row (sensor vertically) for panorama's (6-8 shots to stitch) and double or even triple row for close-ups (4-5 shots in a row)

    Probably, vignetting will show up with the WA lenses ...

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    The image circle for the 65mm is 170mm at f22, a concentrically graduated neutral density filters is recommended for corner to corner even exposure. I shot at f11 with out the filter and it was acceptable for corner to corner exposure.

    The same for the 90 mm if you use any raise or shifts. If you want perfect corner to corner use the filter.

    Michel
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    Re: How stupid is my "project" ????

    Thanks, all of you, for your very interesting information.

    Corner performance is of minor importance to me, since I'm mainly looking to stitch panorama's... Still, if needed, I well consider the concentric filter ...

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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