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Thread: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

  1. #51
    Super Duper
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    A very nice summation Henning and truly apprciated. Some of what you expressed mirrors my thoughts which were expressed in a post a few above yours. I agree with your summation regarding both the 90AA and the last itineration of the 90 f2.0 just before the 90AA..the latter which I also prefer for most subjects over the 90AA. Its also interesting that you go much wider on film and use your WATE...as opposed to your other camera.

    I should add one additonal comment to my original posting and tests. On the M9, being full frame..at f2.8 and f4...the 90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M (last 90f2.8 released by Leica)...that lens is somewhat sharper in the corners than the 90mm f2.0 pre ASPH at closer distances...but the 90 f2.0 pre Asph has all the other attributes I described. When both are used on the M8...corner differences are negligable but each retains their particular strengths and weaknesses in all other regards.

    Lastly, we have the WATE, the MATE...I've often thought one day we need a 75-90-135 lens from leica called the TATE (telephoto-Angle-Tri-Elmar). I'm sure I'm not the first one to mention this...but it would be nice fro someone to say they use the WATE, MATE & TATE! I hope no one is taking my suggestion of a TATE seriously

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Thought I'd throw a picture in here. Last version 90 elmarit + M9.....Peter

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Maybe I missed it, but no mention of indoor vs outdoor use? If shooting indoors in low-ish light conditions, a 75 Lux is probably the better choice. With a M8 the shutter speeds were marginal (ISO 1250), but with a M9 and its ~1 stop ISO improvement, the 75 Lux should net good shutter speeds across a wide range of lighting (or lack of!)

    I tried a 90mm APO for awhile and found it difficult to use on portraits (10 foot focus distance or thereabouts). At more moderate distances the lens was stunning. Eventually it was sold and I tried a per-ASPH 90mm Cron (E55 thread). Overall I think that is a very nice lens for the price. The only complaint I had with that lens was color fringing in bokeh. Sometimes it could be more noticeable than I liked.

    I'd still like to give the 90 AA another go-around, but it seems its not the best lens for close(er) distances at wide apertures.

    All these are the 90 pre-ASPH on the M8 -

    Probably F4-


    Some 3D effect, normally I don't get much 3D feel for this lens. Probably F2.8, maybe F4-


    Busy background (the pebbles). F2 & F2.8 had nervous bokeh. This was F4 or F5.6 and the bokeh smoothed out (thank heavens for LCD screens!) -


    F4 again-


    F2, probably right at the min focus distance -


    One of my favorites from the lenses, i liked how it held the highlights and the various little OOF rings here & there. F2.8-



    Since people were talking about bokeh... I don't have much from the 75 Lux; I never really "bonded" with that lens.

  4. #54
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    John- I agree about the 75 lux indoors, and in general for portrait work on the M9. It lives on a M7 0.85, but I had problems wide open on my M8. With the M9, I am using it a lot and finding focus is very reliable. And while it doesn't focus as close as the 75 cron, you can definitely get close enough for intimate portraits, and that's another reason I prefer it on the M9 to the M8. Here's one from last night, iso 1600, f1.4 best....Peter

  5. #55
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I have a 75 APO at the moment and have not used it much. The lens seems to have a nice draw to it and I do appreciate the min focus distance. Nailing focus is tricky with it. I have a mix of front & back focused images, so the lens itself is probably okay. My M9 seems to have a pinch of back focus. I'll let New Jersey deal with that in a couple months when the lens kit settles down (too much "buying & trying" at the moment).

    When shooting indoors the 75 APO's F2 aperture is too slow. Shutter speeds are pretty low and the auto ISO hits 1600-2500 pretty quickly. I'm okay with the M9's noise level up to ISO 1250, but 1600 and onwards can be a bit much depending on the color content of the scene. If was planning to shoot alot of indoor portraits, I'd go with a 75 Lux simply for better shutter speeds.

    For indoor work the 50 Lux ASPH is my go-to lens. It has always been a very reliable lens, and now with the M9's added pixels there is so much more room for cropping. For outdoor work I like the APO's. Since I have the 50 Lux ASPH, I prefer 90mm just because of the wider spacing relative to 50mm. That said, the 75 APO is fairly compact and balances better on the M9. Here are several from the 50 Lux ASPH wide-open - very close to its min focus distance (taken on the M8) -







    And something to show a bit more background character -



    I know some people feel the 50 Lux ASPH is too "clinical". I'm the opposite and not a big fan of the "Leica glow". My preferences gravitate towards the ASPH's and APO's. If someone is looking for the glow trait, then the 75mm Lux is a good candidate. If I had unlimited funds, I'd have a 75 Lux as well.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Had 75 lux, sold it:

    -too big,
    -too heavy,
    -too unforgiving with focusing on full open,
    -too old,
    -too hard to focus on the go
    -too heavy,

    Got Summarit 75 and I love it!



    Now, this 75 will be in the bag EVERY time I take my Ms...

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    You won't get an arguement from me on the 75 Summarit.

    I really enjoy shooting with the summarit 75 more than the 90 cron and 90 Elmarit 2.8. Small, quick to focus and it pops - I mean POPs - into focus

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    BTW Sisoje, I really like the processing on your portait. Nice...

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    innerimager - which Leica 75 or 90 focuses closer than the 0.7m of the 75/1.4 lux? Thanks.
    My Photography Blog here

  10. #60
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I was surprised, as a 90AA-R owner, at the image quality of the 90/2.8 Elmarit-M. If you don't need f/2.0, I prefer the Elmarit.
    Here's a comparison, first the 90AA @ f/2.8 on the 5D-II and then the 90 Elmarit-M at f/2.8 on the M9. If we ignore the subject the rendering of the Elmarit appeals to me more. Both shot available light with a little fill.



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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by ampguy View Post
    innerimager - which Leica 75 or 90 focuses closer than the 0.7m of the 75/1.4 lux? Thanks.
    Hi- friends call me Peter btw. ;>)
    The 75 lux focuses to 0.8 M, not 0.7M. The 75 cron asph focuses to 0.7 M, the summarit to 0.9M. I don't believe any leica 90 focuses as close as the 75s except the f4 macro which focuses to 0.76M without an adapter, and 0.5M with an adapter. best....Peter

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    And- that 90 elmarit portrait is superb Daniel. best...Peter

  13. #63
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    As I posted on another thread, I think the final version 90 Elmarit-M 2.8 is a wonderful lens. Ultra sharp, very small, great hood and I think it draws beautifully. I am so glad I got it and not a 90 Summarit. I bought a 75 Summarit very soon afterwards. The first one was so poor I took it back to the dealer that same week, who agreed it was awful and exchanged it. The second one at least focuses accurately but I am not enamoured. It seems the opposite of the usual 3D that only Leica and Zeiss lenses seem to have. Its rendition is ordinary and lacks sparkle. I am wondering if Leica have quietly updated the formula. I tried a friend's recent one and it seemed better if not stellar. I wish I had waited and got a Summicron for a 75. As a half way there is always the excellent Zeiss 85/f2 (the older M8 75mm frame is close to spot on for this lens). However it is very expensive and talk about a weird shape.

    Wilson

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    The 2,8/90 Elmarit-M is a killer lens. Great bang for the buck... I added the vignetting in post. As I recall, this was wide open at MFD:


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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I'll just say this about my 75 'Lux, "From my cold dead hands."

    M8 & 75 'Lux


    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


  16. #66
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I currently own the 90 APO-cron, 75 Lux, and 75 cron. I used to own the 75 summarit, 90 tele-elmarit, and a 90 elmarit.

    So I guess I have some experience in ownership and useage. Here's my take:

    90 elmarit (last version with telescoping hood.): Possible the best all 'rounder. Great deal, compact, great great IQ, sharp but forgiving, amazing, and possibly one of the most under-rated and underappreciated lenses in the lens lineup. By most accounts, it is optically and cosmetically superior to the 90 summarit that replaced it. I miss mine and, at times, consider returning to it. I list it here first, as I think it is "The Best Buy" of all Leica 75/90 lenses. Runs around $500-$800 used.

    ....however....

    The 90-APO cron is pure magic. It's the sharpest lens in the M lineup, in terms of getting those micro details. This makes it great for compressed landscape work. It's a stop faster than the elmarit, but what you lose in return in size. It's much bigger, by feel, than the elmarit, but it's a no compromise lens. Plus, by Leica standards, it's a relative bargain to find one used (usually around $2K, got mine for $1700 last year)... CUrrently runs around $2K - $2500 used, $ 3500 new

    The 75 summilux is magic, in terms of its drawing. It has a very different look than the modern 75's (summarit and cron, hence why I have the cron). It's a beast of a lens, so if size bothers you, don't get it. If you want the most unique signature (possibly as unique as the noctilux f/1), this is the lens to have. Lower contrast (macro contrast that is), and it blooms a bit wide open on the M8 and M9, but sharpens very much at narrower apertures. It's a beast of a lens, but great for portraits...actually, in my mind, the best Leica portrait lens. So if portraits are your thing, if you like the more classic Mandler style Leica look, AND size doesn't bother you, this is the lens to have. Runs around $2400-2800 used.

    The 75 APO Summicron Asph is a terrific lens. It is the most modern in character (in line with Peter Karbe's designs), and it looks much like the 50 lux asph in character . It's much smaller in feel than the 75 lux and a better option for travel. I would not take the 75 lux on a long trip, but I would certainly bring along the 75 cron if my kit were a 24/35/75 kit. Many speak of this as the best 75 lens, and it probably is technically. It doesn't have the classic glow of the 75 lux, but it has its own modern look that i find very satisfying. It's why I purchased it, despite having the 75 lux. Runs around $3K used, $3400 new.

    The 75 summarit is very close in character to the 75 cron, more modern in look, nice build, and a real bargain...This is the best bargain of the 75's, and if you like the modern signature, go for this lens....the only big drawback is the screw on hood, which really adds to the length of the hood, and the longer min focus distance (.9 meters compared to something like 0.75 meters for the 75 summicron). I owned this lens for a year when it first came out, but I found myself reaching for the 75 lux more. Great deal, though! Runs around $1,100 used, $1500 new.

    The 90 Tele-Elmarit: I had the thin tele-elmarit. I liked it for its size, but not much else. I tried it out for about a month, and returned it to my dealer for a re-stocking fee. I thought it was a very technically sound lens. It's out of focus rendering was a bit harsh, a bit geometric, not as pleasing as the 90 elmarit. I already had the 90 APO-cron and thought I'd use the 90 Tele-elmarit in circumstances where size mattered. Turns out that I didn't care...I'd still bring the APO-cron, so the Tele-Elmarit left. It's a good lens, really, but just not for me. If size is your priority, this is the lens to get, as it is tiny. Runs around $500-700 used.

    I have not tried the CV 75 color Heliar, but I have heard that this is a steal of a lens. Not as well built. Bokeh is pleasing, but not quite upto Leica standards, whatever that means (I think it's a bit of bunk...it seems to have a bit more geometry in the bokeh), and it's quite sharp, though not like the 90 elmarit or apo cron.

    90 summarit: I have no experience, but I have heard it's a fair performer...
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    ^ A very nice summation there, Ashwin.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Briefly mentioned, but no real discussion. Any info on the 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar? It would be tough to give up a full stop vs. the cron. The size is compelling but extending it for use looks dorky. And I can't find a picture of the hood.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by tom in mpls View Post
    Briefly mentioned, but no real discussion. Any info on the 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar? It would be tough to give up a full stop vs. the cron. The size is compelling but extending it for use looks dorky. And I can't find a picture of the hood.
    You might want to check out dierk's images with that fine lens. Here's a recent example: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...postcount=7594

  20. #70
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Hi Tom,

    I think you meant that that the difference between the 90 f4 macro and Cron is a two stop difference, not one.

    The 90 f4 macro is an astonishing lens, aside from it's relatively slow speed. Whether shooting in close focus range without macro adapter, or up to 1:3 macro territory with matching "macro adapter"...or even at normal or infinity distances, this lens never fails to disappoint. !ven it's bokeh is exceptionally smooth. It's not as convient to use as other regular 90's...especially if you decide to extend it out each time prior to use. The hood is a reversable type, or one can purchase a screw-in aftermarket that stays in shooting position all the time. Great travel lens for a variety of uses but of course under adaquate light.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    I think you meant that that the difference between the 90 f4 macro and Cron is a two stop difference, not one.
    Quite right. I was thinking of the Elmarit.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    From my daily blog entry for Wednesday. M9 + 90mm elmarit. Three panel stitch.


  23. #73
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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    My blog post from yesterday. M9 + 75mm lux @ f1.4


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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by tom in mpls View Post
    Briefly mentioned, but no real discussion. Any info on the 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar? It would be tough to give up a full stop vs. the cron. The size is compelling but extending it for use looks dorky. And I can't find a picture of the hood.
    It's a great lens. Very compact - one of my smallest lenses in the bag. When you need it, you extend it and leave it extended. Who cares what it looks like?

    Very sharp, nice bokeh, flare resistant, etc. Focuses closer than other 90's and gives you the highest reproduction ratio of any M lens that I know of (1:6.7). That's without the adapter. With the adapter, it goes to 1:3. Sure, it's not a real macro lens, but if you are traveling and want to keep it light, it's awesome. Great for a compressed landscape AND throwing on the adapter to get a nice detail shot of whatever catches your fancy. On top of all that, if you don't use it, it sits quietly in the bag not taking up too much space/weight.

    If you want a portrait lens for indoors, go for a different lens. I like mine as a travel lens as stated above. For low light stuff, I'm better off with my 50/1.4 than I would be with a 90/2 anyway. Before I had mine, I just had to give up on certain shots while traveling light.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    Who cares what it looks like?
    Comment appreciated, thanks.

    It's small size (collapsed) is a great plus, but then there's the big hood. Yes, I understand that you can store the hood on backwards, but if I were taking it for travel I would be sorely tempted to skip the hood. Have you shot it without the hood?
    Last edited by tom in mpls; 26th March 2010 at 19:03.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I bought mine used here - it didn't come with the hood. I've been meaning to pick one up, but haven't convinced myself to drop $75 for something I'll probably never use. So yes, I've shot it without the hood

    I've not had any noticeable problem with flare with it. I've shot it in the sun in Sante Fe, NM, as well as here on the East coast and it's always been fine. I haven't done any stress testing of it though with respect to flare.

    I should note I've only shot it with film.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by tom in mpls View Post
    Comment appreciated, thanks.

    It's small size (collapsed) is a great plus, but then there's the big hood. Yes, I understand that you can store the hood on backwards, but if I were taking it for travel I would be sorely tempted to skip the hood. Have you shot it without the hood?
    I just got one a few days ago. Great lens and super sharp though I do miss the extra couple of stops over my 90 APO. But the APO is such a chunk I never want to carry it around unless on a job. The macro-elmar is seriously lighter than a 35 cron and not that much bigger than a 50 cron.

    Best to forego the hood designed for it and find the small screw on hood for the 50 elmarit which comes in black or silver. Really only need a hood for protection; a UV filter would be just as good and find yourself a slip on cap. Like most of Leica's modern designs the lens is pretty flareproof. Not sure what they were thinking when they designed that hood.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Mine came with a slip on cap and I use a UV filter on it for protection. I think the hood (12575) is an old design that was repurposed for this lens.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    To balance things with my earlier posts regarding the 90mm Summicron Pre-ASPH, here are two taken wide open with 75 APO & M9:





    Relative to the 90mm Summicron Pre-ASPH, if focus distance can be shortened and the background is at moderate distance, the 75 APO's bokeh is very smooth (speaking mostly in reference to the 2nd shot). The 90's have good bokeh potential, but in my experience, shooting 90mm portraits at F2 on the M8 were more miss than hit, so I tended to stop-down the 90mm to ~F4 to improve the odds. The 75 APO does seem easier to focus in the wild, but the jury is still out on that one.

    I have a 90 APO on its way back from DAG, so hopefully the Mrs. will cooperate again and sit through another couple rounds while I indulge in portrait lenses! LOL

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by John Black View Post
    To balance things with my earlier posts regarding the 90mm Summicron Pre-ASPH, here are two taken wide open with 75 APO & M9:


    Relative to the 90mm Summicron Pre-ASPH, if focus distance can be shortened and the background is at moderate distance, the 75 APO's bokeh is very smooth (speaking mostly in reference to the 2nd shot). The 90's have good bokeh potential, but in my experience, shooting 90mm portraits at F2 on the M8 were more miss than hit, so I tended to stop-down the 90mm to ~F4 to improve the odds. The 75 APO does seem easier to focus in the wild, but the jury is still out on that one.

    I have a 90 APO on its way back from DAG, so hopefully the Mrs. will cooperate again and sit through another couple rounds while I indulge in portrait lenses! LOL
    Beautiful John. Oh, and nice portraits too.

    That is some gorgeous bokeh, for sure.

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Hi Peter,

    I did some tests, and am getting perfect min. focus to about 0.65m with an M8 using laser and sonar measuring.

    The last German 75 luxes do have markings in ft. to 2.5' and 0.8m, but you can rotate them about 20 degrees (out of the long throw of ~180 deg) closer focus than the markings, and they behave pretty much linearly.

    Give it a try if you have the latest (last) German 75 lux.

    Ted

    Quote Originally Posted by innerimager View Post
    Hi- friends call me Peter btw. ;>)
    The 75 lux focuses to 0.8 M, not 0.7M. The 75 cron asph focuses to 0.7 M, the summarit to 0.9M. I don't believe any leica 90 focuses as close as the 75s except the f4 macro which focuses to 0.76M without an adapter, and 0.5M with an adapter. best....Peter
    My Photography Blog here

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by ampguy View Post
    Hi Peter,

    I did some tests, and am getting perfect min. focus to about 0.65m with an M8 using laser and sonar measuring.

    The last German 75 luxes do have markings in ft. to 2.5' and 0.8m, but you can rotate them about 20 degrees (out of the long throw of ~180 deg) closer focus than the markings, and they behave pretty much linearly.

    Give it a try if you have the latest (last) German 75 lux.

    Ted
    My Canadian one performs similarly. There seems to be no actual difference in close focussing between my 75/2 and 75/1.4.

    Henning

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    Quote Originally Posted by John Black View Post
    ...
    I have a 90 APO on its way back from DAG, so hopefully the Mrs. will cooperate again and sit through another couple rounds while I indulge in portrait lenses! LOL
    John,

    Would love to hear your feedback on your 90 APO after service. I had difficult time using my 90 APO on M8 so I sent it to DAG for adjustment. Now the focus tolerance is a bit tighter but it is still not easy to achieve sharp focus at f2,0. In comparison, I have much better success rate using my 75 Summilux at f1.4. Many suggested that 90 APO should be sent back to Solms for service due to special equipment requirement of APO.

    Kind regards,

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    Re: Let's talk 75 and 90mm

    I have read--and reread--hundreds of threads on 90mm lenses over the past year [here, on LUF, RFF, photo.net, etc.], and this is the best and most informative by far. Bravo!

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