Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 32 of 32

Thread: M9.2 When and What will be new?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Will it be soon? Will they address the red fringing? A faster processor would be the most beneficial upgrade. I am holding off until all the issues are addressed to upgrade from M8. Live TTL view, larger rangefinder window, and an LCD like iPhone 4 has would be on wish list.

  2. #2
    Member Seascape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    239
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Well hopefully they don't do a M9.2, the last .2 cameras really weren't worth the model change (not just the M8.2 but also the R6.2) IMO.

    Now a M10, with a next generation sensor, and focus confirmation would be enough to get my attention, until then my M8 will do just fine

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Agreed. On an M10, would like to see a smaller body near X1 size with rangefinder window on top with M lenses and large buffer size. The worst thing is to have to wait so long while the M8 (or M9 from reviews) processes the images. Using the X1 is such a pleasure with its high ISO. The images are great. Leica needs to keep up and upgrade sooner than later once the M9 orders are caught up or risk going back into the red.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    With Leica working as much as they are to keep up with the demand for the M9, I don't imagine that an M9.2 will be on the horizon very soon. It was roughly two years after the M8 was released that the M8.2 was announced.

    From all I've read (I'm not an owner), fixes to the M9's red fringing issues would no doubt be appreciated. However, and correct me if I'm mistaken here, the history of the ".2" cameras showed Leica either playing catch up to features from other manufacturers, or addressing perceived faults of the base model release. Given the success of the launch, I don't think there's a pressing need for one.


    -J.

  5. #5
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    I dont see any shortcomings and reasons to replace the M9 any time soon.

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    Will it be soon? Will they address the red fringing? A faster processor would be the most beneficial upgrade. I am holding off until all the issues are addressed to upgrade from M8. Live TTL view, larger rangefinder window, and an LCD like iPhone 4 has would be on wish list.
    If there is an M9.2 then I think it's really unlikely that it'll have any of these changes - it would need a new sensor design to deal completely with the red edges, and new electronics and firmware to deal with the LCD and the processor and a new body for a larger rangefinder window - that sounds like an entirely new camera to me. I guess there will be an M10 which might have some (or all) of these features, who knows?

    However, it's not going to be soon - if Leica are finding it tough to deal with orders for the M9 (for which there is no competition), why on earth would they release a new camera?

    Of course, there might be an M9.2, but I can't see anything obvious that would need fixing - I'd bet more on cosmetic stuff (sapphire LCD, different finish etc.).

    As for the red fringing (red edges). I had to think about what you were saying for a minute. I can honestly say that I haven't given it a thought for the last three months (5,000-10,000 shots) - I know it's there, I know it's an issue, but I simply haven't seen it.

    A faster processor would also be nice - but then, I've only once filled the buffer on my camera, and that was fooling about. There are better cameras to use like a machine gun!

    Of course, it's your prerogative to 'hold off' (I'd guess you're going to have to wait a long time). But if you like your M8, then you'll love an M9, red edges and slow processor notwithstanding.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    The red edge issue was improved with the last firmware update. Problem is, folks tend to use a lot of non-Leica glass, so it's a moving target. Having had a lot of experience with large format cameras and a digital backs, I've grown quite used to dealing with it. Color cast is just a fact of life with wide angle lenses in that arena. It's really a matter of physics, light having to be bent to a great degree to cover the full frame sensor. SLR's don't have this issue because the mirror box moves the lens farther away from the sensor, so the angles the light needs to be bent is less.

    If one were to use Leica glass that had six bit coding, then a general correction can be applied to that lens automatically because the camera knows the individual charastic of that lens. For non Leica glass, one would have to choose the closest Leica equivalent, and hope for the best. Problem is, even with the Leica glass, it changes with aperture and focus distance, as these elements change how the light is bent to reach the sensor. So like I said, it's a moving target.

    The way we deal with this on LF cameras is to shoot a white, semi opaque calibration card for each shot, or series of shots (similar to an expo disk) , then apply those corrections in post. It works perfectly (more or less...). So, IMHO, Leica should offer this fix in software and allow one to do something similar for color critical work. For non critical work, the generic in camera fixes are fine.

    So, seeing how it is lens specific, I seriously doubt this is something that will be added to an M10, unless it was software based.

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
    The red edge issue was improved with the last firmware update. Problem is, folks tend to use a lot of non-Leica glass, so it's a moving target.

    . . . . . snip

    So, seeing how it is lens specific, I seriously doubt this is something that will be added to an M10, unless it was software based.
    Thanks for that James . . . I've really ended up using all Leica glass - I realise it's an issue with non leica glass - Cornerfix is an excellent solution under those circumstances - and it's free!

    Just this guy you know

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    I have frequently filled the buffer not machine gunning, but just taking the same shot at each aperture click on the Noctilux to get the best image. After 8 shots, it's wait,wait,wait,...... as camera locks up and subject has changed by then - especially on a hot day at the beach.

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    I have frequently filled the buffer not machine gunning, but just taking the same shot at each aperture click on the Noctilux to get the best image. After 8 shots, it's wait,wait,wait,...... as camera locks up and subject has changed by then - especially on a hot day at the beach.
    Okay - different shooting techniques - I guess that a larger buffer is one thing that could, theoretically, go into a 9.2 - but like others, I really can't see a good commercial reason for Leica to do it on an interim camera.

    You can wait for the improvements you ask for, but I think it may be a long wait, and I'm pretty sure they'll be in a completely new camera.

    Just this guy you know

  11. #11
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    A question of getting rather blue in the face whilst holding your breath I would say, the M9 is pretty close to the ideal camera as it is, making it hard for Leica to design something people will want to upgrade to. Red Edge - yes, it was there on the first firmware, but now it is minimal. Buffer, yes, but only owners use it in a way that makes it a problem. Sensor? It is better than anything I can do photographically anyway, so a new one would be into diminishing returns....
    In fact, the M9, for the first time in my digital life, gives me the feeling that I am off the upgrade bandwagon.
    Last edited by jaapv; 7th July 2010 at 08:07.
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  12. #12
    Jeff Day
    Guest

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    I like my M9 a lot just the way it is, and doubt we'll see an M9.x anytime soon, but in case anyone from Leica is reading here is my wish list for the next gen MX:

    - smaller, lighter, weather-sealed body
    - bigger rangefinder window with focus confirmation (I'm getting old and it's increasingly hard for me to see)
    - improved sensor performance
    - faster processor
    - larger buffer
    - live view 'iPhone' like screen
    - a built in 'Thumbs Up'

    For me that would be quite a treat!

    Best,

    Jeff

  13. #13
    Senior Member Don Hutton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    607
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    13

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    I have frequently filled the buffer not machine gunning, but just taking the same shot at each aperture click on the Noctilux to get the best image. After 8 shots, it's wait,wait,wait,...... as camera locks up and subject has changed by then - especially on a hot day at the beach.
    Here's an idea - use the lens, learn what it does at each aperture and then you won't need to machine gun it - just choose the aperture that suits your vision, hit the trigger and off you go... I mean, what did you do in the land of Ms and film? It sounds like a Red cam may satisfy you demands.

    I have an M9 (and an MP, M7 and M8) and honestly, the only real improvement that I can think of would be the price; then again, it's a Leica, and I don't understand their pricing at all, but I sure do like the tools. Of course the results are not always as good as I'd like... but I can usually think of 1000s of things that need improving before the tools.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Thanks for your opinion, Don. But like this afternoon when it is hot and the bugs are biting, sometimes you want this -Attachment 32710- and sometimes you want this -
    Attachment 32711 or this Attachment 32713 and Attachment 32712 (I did not PP them yet.)Attachment 32717
    I know my lenses very well, but the nice thing about digital is IT'S FREE to shoot as much as I want. My 15 year old daughter and I shoot for her Facebook profile picture, come home and process the images in Aperture, and post them. It is a wholesome and great activity to share together, she learns about photography, and we have fun. Rather than chimp, I take all the images I might need, and worry about them later, rather than worrying about getting it perfect then. Many times a slight subtle aperture change is the difference between a good and a great photo. To each his own, but "machine gunning" is not a bad thing. I like a camera that can handle whatever is needed at the time, and the X1 far outperforms the M series in something simple as this for 1/3 of the price of an M9, so IMHO expecting performance in a high end camera at that price is not an unreasonable thing. Some of the comments are made to bring up controversy to make the thread more interesting, but I shoot for fun and am no more than a hobbyist. I love my Leica products.
    Last edited by esy0345; 7th July 2010 at 18:24.

  15. #15
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,801
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    I'd certainly happily see a sapphire LCD cover and a faster / better image preview. My backup M8 still beats the M9 in that regard. Oh, and real chrome please

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thanks for that James . . . I've really ended up using all Leica glass - I realise it's an issue with non leica glass - Cornerfix is an excellent solution under those circumstances - and it's free!
    Jono, I haven't messed with conerfix too much. Maybe I should? For me, I think the best solution would be if Capture One opened up the Lens cast calibration feature to other cameras other than the Phase One backs. The feature is there, just grayed out, and it seems like it would be an easy thing just to allow the user to turn it on. It allows for the color cast correction and falloff control separately (which is great because sometimes I like the natural vignette I get from the camera, but want the color cast gone, etc) I also like that this is applied to the RAW file, so, by the time I process out to a TIFF, the colors are clean. Why our Dutch brethren decided the only folks who'd want to be able to do that were the ones using P-One backs is beyond me - that feature alone seems like it would sell more than a few copies of C1 to Leica users. Go figure...

  17. #17
    2x2
    Guest

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    What is it with this affinity for sapphire LCD screens???
    I just don't get it.

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    Some of the comments are made to bring up controversy to make the thread more interesting, but I shoot for fun and am no more than a hobbyist. I love my Leica products.
    Well, I think the one thing we can all agree with is that your 15 year old daughter is really pretty!

    Just this guy you know

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
    Jono, I haven't messed with conerfix too much. Maybe I should? For me, I think the best solution would be if Capture One opened up the Lens cast calibration feature to other cameras other than the Phase One backs. The feature is there, just grayed out, and it seems like it would be an easy thing just to allow the user to turn it on. It allows for the color cast correction and falloff control separately (which is great because sometimes I like the natural vignette I get from the camera, but want the color cast gone, etc) I also like that this is applied to the RAW file, so, by the time I process out to a TIFF, the colors are clean. Why our Dutch brethren decided the only folks who'd want to be able to do that were the ones using P-One backs is beyond me - that feature alone seems like it would sell more than a few copies of C1 to Leica users. Go figure...
    Hi James
    i think cornerfix is probably the right answer, but I don't use it myself, as I don't seem to have an issue with any of my lenses. But Sandy has put a lot of work in, and as far as I can see it's the final solution. I don't use C1 anymore either - just prefer Aperture I guess - each to his own.

    Just this guy you know

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Thank you, Jono.

  21. #21
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,864
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I dont see any shortcomings and reasons to replace the M9 any time soon.
    But it doesn't have AF, face detection or HD video!




  22. #22
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,801
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2x2 View Post
    What is it with this affinity for sapphire LCD screens???
    I just don't get it.
    Obviously you've not had a scratched M8/M9 LCD cover then or an M8.2 or M8u with the harder LCD cover.

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography, as 8 and 16 core chips will be commonplace, flash memory will be extremely cheap, and the ability to capture one to two second bursts of full frame high quality images will negate the need to capture "the shot." The concept of waiting for the buffer to clear after only 8 shots will seem as outdated as a Commodore 64 computer. One will simply review the burst of images to select the best one and crop as needed. Live view with only milliseconds of delay through both a viewfinder or screen while directly viewing the field will be the norm. No mirror will be necessary. 3-D cameras are currently on the market, and are the next step in consumer R&D. The lenses will survive, and Leica could easily develop an assisted or automatic focusing system with confirmation, but the M series bodies will be technologically left behind as cameras like RedOne will become commonplace, much more compact, and automatic. Leica will have to change soon as they have with the X1, which can produce IQ that exceeds the M9 images in some parameters now. While the use of the M camera makes photography fun and interesting, the ability to capture the best images consistently will be with "machine gunning."

  24. #24
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography, as 8 and 16 core chips will be commonplace, flash memory will be extremely cheap, and the ability to capture one to two second bursts of full frame high quality images will negate the need to capture "the shot." The concept of waiting for the buffer to clear after only 8 shots will seem as outdated as a Commodore 64 computer. One will simply review the burst of images to select the best one and crop as needed. Live view with only milliseconds of delay through both a viewfinder or screen while directly viewing the field will be the norm. No mirror will be necessary. 3-D cameras are currently on the market, and are the next step in consumer R&D. The lenses will survive, and Leica could easily develop an assisted or automatic focusing system with confirmation, but the M series bodies will be technologically left behind as cameras like RedOne will become commonplace, much more compact, and automatic. Leica will have to change soon as they have with the X1, which can produce IQ that exceeds the M9 images in some parameters now. While the use of the M camera makes photography fun and interesting, the ability to capture the best images consistently will be with "machine gunning."
    I could not disagree more - sorry!

  25. #25
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,864
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography...
    I really doubt that. And if it does? I'll still use my M8. I don't need to be "leading edge" - I just need to be happy and take nice pictures.


  26. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography...
    Wait a minute! Didn't that already happen in the early 1960's?


    -J.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Don Hutton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    607
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    13

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography, as 8 and 16 core chips will be commonplace, flash memory will be extremely cheap, and the ability to capture one to two second bursts of full frame high quality images will negate the need to capture "the shot." The concept of waiting for the buffer to clear after only 8 shots will seem as outdated as a Commodore 64 computer. One will simply review the burst of images to select the best one and crop as needed. Live view with only milliseconds of delay through both a viewfinder or screen while directly viewing the field will be the norm. No mirror will be necessary. 3-D cameras are currently on the market, and are the next step in consumer R&D. The lenses will survive, and Leica could easily develop an assisted or automatic focusing system with confirmation, but the M series bodies will be technologically left behind as cameras like RedOne will become commonplace, much more compact, and automatic. Leica will have to change soon as they have with the X1, which can produce IQ that exceeds the M9 images in some parameters now. While the use of the M camera makes photography fun and interesting, the ability to capture the best images consistently will be with "machine gunning."
    Ah well, my earlier post was tongue in cheek, but clearly should not have been.

    Improvements in imaging technology do not necessarily equate to an improvement in one's photographic skill... The same weaknesses of composition and technique tend to be equally obvious across all formats and mediums; and often more so with technological advancement. I've seen some amazing 35mm work and some incredibly bad 8x10 stuff. One of my favorite personal photographs was made with a Nikon D1 in 2000 - I just deleted a whole bunch of stuff I shot with my M9 this past weekend - it was garbage.

    For me, one of the most refreshing things about this forum since it's inception has been the lack of trolling...

  28. #28
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    317
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography...
    Must have heard that for 30 years... at least.

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    rayyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,887
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post

    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete ....
    Good God, that soon eh? Don't want to waste time then!!

  30. #30
    Member markowich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cambridge (UK) and Vienna
    Posts
    233
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography, as 8 and 16 core chips will be commonplace, flash memory will be extremely cheap, and the ability to capture one to two second bursts of full frame high quality images will negate the need to capture "the shot." The concept of waiting for the buffer to clear after only 8 shots will seem as outdated as a Commodore 64 computer. One will simply review the burst of images to select the best one and crop as needed. Live view with only milliseconds of delay through both a viewfinder or screen while directly viewing the field will be the norm. No mirror will be necessary. 3-D cameras are currently on the market, and are the next step in consumer R&D. The lenses will survive, and Leica could easily develop an assisted or automatic focusing system with confirmation, but the M series bodies will be technologically left behind as cameras like RedOne will become commonplace, much more compact, and automatic. Leica will have to change soon as they have with the X1, which can produce IQ that exceeds the M9 images in some parameters now. While the use of the M camera makes photography fun and interesting, the ability to capture the best images consistently will be with "machine gunning."
    what you say is maybe true for press photography and for snap shooting. but i regularly watch artists work and i can guareantee that their approach is totally different. they in general work slowly and meticulously, certainly not machine gunning.
    p

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    In three to four years, the rangefinder concept will become completely obsolete in leading edge photography,
    Surely in 'leading edge photography' the rangefinder became completely obsolete with the indroduction of the SLR - hmmm 50 years ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by esy0345 View Post
    While the use of the M camera makes photography fun and interesting, the ability to capture the best images consistently will be with "machine gunning."
    But every nuance / expression / decisive moment requires different composition and some thought . . .. actually perhaps I should say that it MAY require different composition and thought. Machine-gunning is relying on luck to get this right. There will always be a place for contemplative image making, even if it isn't on a rangefinder camera.

    The idea that pointing a camera in the general direction of something, capturing a stream of Very HD video, then selecting and cropping is a substitute for this composition and thought seems rather sad.

    Mind you - I guess you may be right for journalistic purposes, but I'm quite certain that you aren't right for 'artistic' photography.

    Just this guy you know

  32. #32
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: M9.2 When and What will be new?

    I would LOVE an M9+ with one little electronic bit: a focus confirm beep or light that just picked the peak contrast point in the focus patch (a crutch for my poor eyesight)
    AND
    ditch the mechanical shutter and go to a pure electronic shutter, and please, no "shutter sound" simulation, just a touch of tactile feedback on the shutter button.

    ok, sure whatever else the latest "date of the art" sensor might have to offer.

    Then I am buying back in.
    -bob

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •