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Leica S Leak

robmac

Well-known member
David,

No aspersions on your 'reporting'. Having come from a world where press releases were something of an art form and thus often didn't, shall we say, 'accurately reflect' what happened behind the scenes, I found what was said to you vs. what was stated and/or implied in the releases as interesting - but it will need clarification by those with the big pay cheques.
 

Terry

New member
Here is some info from LUF

After Mr. Kaufmanns presentation on the Leica VIP event in Cologne yesterday evening I had the opportunity to talk to him very briefly about the S2. this is what he told me about...

- the price: The body will cost something between 10000 and 20000 Euro, Kaufmann said. "We try to make it cost less than 15000 Euro", he told me. "This is not a bargain", he said. the lenses shall be relativly "cheaper" because Leica shares a lot of parts between the different lenses

- the production of the S2 is supposed to start in April 2009 (!). (Some things obviously never change at Leica...)

- R-compability: R lenses won´t fit directly to the S2, but Kaufmann told me: "There will be an adapter". [On the other hand, in his speech he clearly said there will be a digital R10 as well!]


Here is the link it is post
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...95-mr-kaufmann-s2-price-production-start.html
 
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Vivek

Guest
Terry, That (adapter and throwing R lenses together with that) is a bit confusing because this implies that the new S camera registry is less than that of the R (if one wants infinity focus that is)!!

I think the dealers/distributors will get a big cut with this system similar to the Phase system.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Press Release from Leica



Unexpected but inevitable. The brilliant new Leica S2 digital SLR.
LEICA S2 – Remarkable new camera from Germany redefines the professional DSLR class with a custom 37.5-megapixel, 30 x 45 mm sensor built into a 35mm-sized body.

Some companies tweak the features. At Leica, we transform the concept. That’s why the introduction of the flagship Leica S2 is not merely an incremental advance. It is nothing less than a watershed event that sets an entirely new performance standard for professional digital SLRS. With a custom 37.5-megapixel, 30 x 45 mm sensor that is 56% larger than full frame, it establishes parameters of imaging excellence that are well beyond those obtainable by conventional pro-caliber DSLRs. In the Leica tradition, it utilizes the classic 3:2 aspect ratio that corresponds to the human field of vision and is widely acclaimed as the “Leica Format.”

In designing this brilliant new camera, Leica’s engineers took a close look at the best existing DSLR designs and then synergized them into a radical but practical new camera that combines the performance parameters of a medium-format digital camera with the ergonomics, form factor, and handling ease of a 35mm SLR. The result is the new Leica S2, an entirely new, finely crafted, professional tool developed in-house by Leica with hands-on input from some of the most renowned professional photographers in the world. It incorporates an advanced new dual shutter system with in-body focal-plane shutter for fast lenses, and in-lens leaf shutters for high flash sync speeds, an ultra-high-precision autofocusing system, a new series of lenses designed for the highest possible performance with the new sensor, and a Maestro image processing system that provides twice the speed of comparable medium-format backs, reduces power consumption, and provides in-camera JPEG capability. Remarkably, all of this has been incorporated into a camera that is smaller than a full-size professional 35mm SLR, and still has the unmistakable look and feel of a Leica.

Like Leica cameras of the past, we designed the new Leica S2 from the inside out, and its robust styling is a classic example of form following function. We began with a cutting-edge, large-format CCD sensor and literally configured the camera around it rather than adapting existing technologies. In this way we achieved a new level of performance without sacrificing size or convenience. Yes the S2 Leica is our latest masterpiece, an unequivocal statement to the world that showcases our technological prowess. But it is more than just a technological tour de force. It is a statement of Leica’s continuing pre-eminence in the world of imaging that goes back nearly 100 years. Perhaps that is why our top executives in Germany have compared the announcement of the Leica S2 to the debut of the first Leica, the legendary model A in 1925. That seminal camera did nothing less than redefine 35mm photography in the 20th century and we believe that the Leica S2 may well do the same for DSLR photography in the 21st.

Contacts for your editorial team
Evins Communications, Ltd.
Meegan Insley
Executive Vice President
[email protected]
212.688.8200

Mitch Polikoff
Senior Account Executive
[email protected]
212.377.3594
 

robmac

Well-known member
Nothing like a new product release between partners. Leica says it's all Leica inside, Phase says it's Phase guts *.

Insiders say it's Leica & Phase distribution, other statements are 'exclusive' Phase distribution (and by implication S&S)

(* implying a very close Leica/Phase relationship with vested interests in making the S2 a long-term success).

A lot needs to be ironed out and clarified before I can see many pros buying-in with the first production runs. The deeper and more vested the Phase relationship, the greater the likelihood of a successful adoption by the pro user. One key indicator of how deep the partnership goes will be if Phase allows Phamiya users a trade-in/up program against S2s.

The adapters mentioned could have elements inside, which given the lenses would be APO and/or Asph - hence $$$$$$. Hell, if it's Leica and it's got glass inside, it's gonna cost you. If so, I suspect they would cost as much as the used prices of many of the R lenses they would be bolted onto.

I like the comment of lenses being 'relatively cheaper' - vs Euro 15,000 I would bloody hope so. They do sound like real barn-burners though from the blog descriptions of (MTFs being) 'straight lines' across the frame.

Allusions to an R10 in early-mid 2010 - no statement (as I've seen) if that is available or press conference only followed by release in x months. One thing is for certain, a hell of a lot is going to happen in 18 mos+ in DSLR/MFDB market.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Honestly the more Phase One is involved in this product the more pro's will become more interested. I hope Leica realizes that point. If this system for me is within my specs that i need than a trade in program is going to make me swing my vote for it. This is very important to existing MF shooters. No one is going to take a bath on selling there gear for it.
 

robmac

Well-known member
On the adapter issue:

Assuming elements would be needed for R glass on the S2 given the registration distance implications, would individual adapters need to be tailored for each R lens in order to minimize any loss of IQ?

I can't see the same Asph/APO adapter working for say a 35-70/2.8 as for a 180/2 - at least not and maintain IQ to the level the owner(s) would expect/hope for.

It/they would also have to be a much different beast mechanically than the existing 1.4x APO given the protruding front element of said converter and how it limits the lenses it can be used with.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I wonder if there is a adapter for the R will this make the S a cropped sensor for those existing R lenses and be more like a 24mpx sensor. This could be interesting to see what happens with this end of it. Like to hear more about this for sure. One other BIG question I have is what mount are those S lenses. Something new or something adopted from other MF camera's. Might be smart if it was a Mamiya mount.

these are huge 64 thousand dollar questions
 

robmac

Well-known member
Looks like it is Leica AND Phase distribution - CameraWest is offering pre-ordering of the S system and while they carry Mamiya, they (as far as I can tell) do NOT carry Phase backs.
 

robmac

Well-known member
Have dealt with Sean via email - I second your assessment.

Using the Mamiya mount hardware for the S would speak volumes - as much as they state that Leica won't be stepping on any Mamiya lens toes. Then again, they also said Phase only distribution. Anything is open to change in alliances such as these. Keep your fingers crossed. Would make any platform switch/addition that much easier.

Part of any future possible cross-pollination will come down to how Mamiya reacts to the S2 'alliance' (am starting to have doubts as to how deep it does really go) and Phase's future 'growth' aspirations.
 
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I am looking forward to David Farkus' hands-on impression later today. I doubt Leica will allow any images from the prototype S2 to be published, but hopefully David will be able to give us his opinions.

Mark
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
From Terry some interesting news here

The LEICA S2 camera, powered by the new KODAK KAF-37500 Image Sensor, is the third product from Leica to be based on KODAK CCD Image Sensors – a relationship that began first with the LEICA Digital Module-R and was then extended with the LEICA M8 camera. With an imaging area of 45mm x 30mm, the 37.5 million pixel KAF-37500 represents a new optical format for photography, providing an image capture area over 50% larger than traditional 35mm film. The sensor also includes specific design features that optimize its use in the S2 camera, such as the use of microlenses to increase the overall light sensitivity of the device, enabling improved image quality under low light conditions. In addition, an infra-red absorbing optic was incorporated directly into the sensor’s packaging, enabling the development of a thinner camera design by eliminating the need to include this IR-absorbing function as a separate camera component.
 
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pascal_meheut

Guest
In addition, an infra-red absorbing optic was incorporated directly into the sensor’s packaging, enabling the development of a thinner camera design by eliminating the need to include this IR-absorbing function as a separate camera component.
At least, we know what to expect in the M9 :clap:
 

Bernard

Member
Terry, That (adapter and throwing R lenses together with that) is a bit confusing because this implies that the new S camera registry is less than that of the R (if one wants infinity focus that is)!!
There's an old cinematographer's trick of using a zoom lens designed for 16mm cameras with a teleconverter to shoot on 35. I think that most of the motorcycle tracking shots in Easy Rider were shot with this type of rig.

A 1.4x would make a 1.4/50 into a 2.0/70. Leica could likely do this, especially if they only officially support the last batch of ROM R lenses. They would need to produce several adapters to cover their whole range; at least one for the teles and one for the normal/wide lenses. The wide one would be like a Zeiss PC Mutar without the shift capability.

Not having an R system, I would be much more interested in a Mamiya-to-Leica-S adapter. Phase One will have to do a lot of convincing in Solms and Tokyo to get it made.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
This is also interesting and a good clue this will do ISO 1600 like the P30 plus.

microlenses to increase the overall light sensitivity of the device
 

paulmoore

New member
There's an old cinematographer's trick of using a zoom lens designed for 16mm cameras with a teleconverter to shoot on 35. I think that most of the motorcycle tracking shots in Easy Rider were shot with this type of rig.

A 1.4x would make a 1.4/50 into a 2.0/70. Leica could likely do this, especially if they only officially support the last batch of ROM R lenses. They would need to produce several adapters to cover their whole range; at least one for the teles and one for the normal/wide lenses. The wide one would be like a Zeiss PC Mutar without the shift capability.

...
I love this idea.. make the adapter with a built in extender to match the new format.. brilliant .. can't be that easy, but we can hope.
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
From Terry some interesting news here

The LEICA S2 camera, powered by the new KODAK KAF-37500 Image Sensor, is the third product from Leica to be based on KODAK CCD Image Sensors – a relationship that began first with the LEICA Digital Module-R and was then extended with the LEICA M8 camera. With an imaging area of 45mm x 30mm, the 37.5 million pixel KAF-37500 represents a new optical format for photography, providing an image capture area over 50% larger than traditional 35mm film. The sensor also includes specific design features that optimize its use in the S2 camera, such as the use of microlenses to increase the overall light sensitivity of the device, enabling improved image quality under low light conditions. In addition, an infra-red absorbing optic was incorporated directly into the sensor’s packaging, enabling the development of a thinner camera design by eliminating the need to include this IR-absorbing function as a separate camera component.
More of this story can be found here:
http://www.photographybay.com/2008/09/22/kodak-ccd-image-sensors-power-new-cameras-for-professional-photography/
 
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Vivek

Guest
There's an old cinematographer's trick of using a zoom lens designed for 16mm cameras with a teleconverter to shoot on 35. I think that most of the motorcycle tracking shots in Easy Rider were shot with this type of rig.

A 1.4x would make a 1.4/50 into a 2.0/70. Leica could likely do this, especially if they only officially support the last batch of ROM R lenses. They would need to produce several adapters to cover their whole range; at least one for the teles and one for the normal/wide lenses. The wide one would be like a Zeiss PC Mutar without the shift capability.

Not having an R system, I would be much more interested in a Mamiya-to-Leica-S adapter. Phase One will have to do a lot of convincing in Solms and Tokyo to get it made.

Bernard, In principle yes but these aren't exactly teleconverters. They have relay lenses that would enlarge to image circle while keeping the focal length the same with minimal loss of light.

Very,very expensive as the optics involved are complex.

The simpler 1.4X TC adapter idea was used by Kenko. They made a variety of adapters for cross system (brand) use.
 
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