The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

T or X, which would you choose as a 2nd body?

woodleica

Member
I tried the A7ii in a store today. It felt nice in the hands but I was less than pleased with the EVF. It was dim and jaggedy. I didn't have much time so didn't fiddle around too much but I guess I've to check if there are different settings for the EVF. As it stood, I was reminded why I love my M so much.

Also played with the T but they didn't have an EVF. The new Leica store here will loan me one for a night next week ( for free ) so I get to try that out properly then.
 

sjg284

Member
I guess it depends on the kit you are trying to put together.
A zoom is always going to be bigger and heavier than a prime, so if you are planning on zoom for your 2nd system, then you should definitely compare based on that.

For me, the A7s + 35/2.8 Zeiss is lighter than my M240 body-only. Add a grip for ergonomics and the difference widens. With lens and we are now about 50% heavier.

Given a recent wrist injury that I'm still in physical therapy for, I find the weight difference extremely noticeable. Even with grip, the M240 is simply less ergonomic than an the A7 series bodies unfortunately. I find I have to grip down tighter because the grip size is smaller.

With mirrorless you have to pick your poison.
Lens selection vs lots of zooms vs nice fast primes vs pricing vs AF speed vs IBIS vs High ISO vs video mode, etc. No one system does it all, they are all a compromise you have to choose your priorities.

The A7s is an amazing camera. But I find the resolution lacking for my applications and am more enticed by the A7ii. However, one reason I really enjoy the M ( besides liking RF ) is the lightweight nature of the kit. Looking at the specs, the A7 series don't seem to have too many zoom lens to choose from and the zooms seem quite heavy and large. But I did notice that there is a new 24-240 and something like that paired with some M's might make a good travel kit if I can sacrifice WA. I want to use my M primes I've already invested in, so my interest in any new kit would be the zooms.

I am concerned about the T perhaps being a dead end solution from leica. It doesn't seem to be selling that well and it's APS-C. On the other hand, Fuji is doing really well. The advantage of APS-C is the smaller and lighter lens that go with it as compared to what you have with the A7 series.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I guess it depends on the kit you are trying to put together.
A zoom is always going to be bigger and heavier than a prime, so if you are planning on zoom for your 2nd system, then you should definitely compare based on that.

For me, the A7s + 35/2.8 Zeiss is lighter than my M240 body-only. Add a grip for ergonomics and the difference widens. With lens and we are now about 50% heavier.

Given a recent wrist injury that I'm still in physical therapy for, I find the weight difference extremely noticeable. Even with grip, the M240 is simply less ergonomic than an the A7 series bodies unfortunately. I find I have to grip down tighter because the grip size is smaller.

With mirrorless you have to pick your poison.
Lens selection vs lots of zooms vs nice fast primes vs pricing vs AF speed vs IBIS vs High ISO vs video mode, etc. No one system does it all, they are all a compromise you have to choose your priorities.
Yes, it does depend a lot on the lenses. If-for example you put a 35/1.4FE lens on the A7ii and a 35FLE on the M things look different.

In Regards of compromise between size/weight and speed of the lenses I think dx-size sensor and the T lenses are a nice compromise.

But one thing in regards of size, Neither of those cameras fits in a pocket, so we probably have to carry a bag anyways. So how much difference does the total weight/size make anyways?
Its more important-IMO- that the size ration between body and lenses is balanced and handles good. The Telezoom on the T for example is close to the limit what I would want to pare with a T-body.
 

JorisV

New member
I use Iridient Developer and there is really nothing patchy about its support for the X-Trans sensor at all.

I can definitely see the appeal of the Leica T. They are beautiful, I really would like one myself and the images I have seen are beautiful...

but so are the Fuji ones and the X-T1 with 4 primes (14mm, 23mm, 35mm and 56mm) costs less than the Leica T with the 23mm and the EVF.

On top of that the Fuji lenses are excellent as well and the native lens line-up more complete.

Either way, I believe you make a good choice
In the meanwhile I also picked up a Leica T.

It is a joy to use, despite its many flaws...

The biggest drawback IMO is the AF: too slow, often not locking focus and although you have multiple focus points changing them is so tedious that I personally simply tend to focus and recompose.

The Fuji, not exactly considered to be the fastest camera on the plant, is a speed devil compared to the Leica T...

That being said, I really really like the Leica T!!!

That being said once more, I only bought the 23mm so far for the Leica T and I might hold off on buying more lenses... so perhaps I should have bought the X113 instead?
 

asiafish

Member
You have asked a very pertinent question, and one I have asked myself many times. (and also spend a lot of money on trying to figure out)

I know you stated interchangeable lenses, but what I have found for me is that once I have a another system with interchangeable lenses, is that I am temped, and often succumb, to buying many of the extra lenses for that second system. In the end, I end up building up two (or three) independent systems with overlapping focal lengths.

I have ended up with a M system, Canon EOS full frame, and Olympus EM1/5II set up. Plus specific fixed lens cameras. Fun, but a lot of overlap. (and $$$)

What I found is the X-Vario is a great daytime camera for travel, vacation, party (with a flash), and the M is the go for high resolution, night, and super high quality. (In addition the X-Vario at 28mm and F3.5 with ISO 1600 at night, or indoors, is fabulous.)

So in my humble opinion, the M system, complimented with the X-Vario is a great travel, vacation system, the Xvario is very light, (surprising light) and with 28-70, a very versatile compliment to the M System. Also, if you scale up a RAW file at 70mm to 90mm (Photoshop enlarge 1.3 times approx.) it is hardly distinguishable from a straight file but now at 90mm, not just 70mm. (seriously I mean it)

So you end up with a great combo in my opinion, which also saves you the problem of 'gear creep'. (buying more because it's there)

Lastly two comments on the Leica X system: I also have the X 35mm F1.7 but end up using the X-vario more, and 2: for the X-Vario, I set the exposure to 250 second, F stop to A, and ISO to Auto 1600 max, and everything seems to come together. Sharp (250/second) picture, Any F stop is great on that camera, and up to 1600 ISO in daylight is never an issue, ever.

Seriously, I have already spent the money already, so trying to save you some $$$.

All the best with your decision. Good luck, it is a great big candy store out there....

Dave
Same boat for me. X Vario is my ultimate family vacation camera. I use manual ISO, aperture priority, wide open and let shutter speed fall where it may. Even at 1/8th and ISO 3200 in available darkness I've obtain very sharp pictures with beautiful color. At ISO 6400 the black and white remains fantastic.

I have the X 113 s well and love it, but the X Vario is the more versatile of the two.
 

woodleica

Member
I managed to try a T for a day since my local Leica store allows rentals. I decided that it's not for me. It's a beautiful little camera and kit, and if money was no object, I'd get one because I do see times where it would be great to have. But given my main requirement is AF, that's where some of it's weakness lies. I decided for the moment to go with the Sony A7ii. I mostly tend to shoot 35 and above anyways. WA is not my preferred POV but for that I still have my 240. So far, I'm happy with my decision.
 
Top