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Thread: M8 announcements

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    M8 announcements

    Dear LEICA M8 customers,

    The desire to own a digital camera manufactured by Leica, possessing the identical lifelong value retention associated with every Leica product, was brought to us by many of our customers. Leica Camera AG has now configured the LEICA M8 to meet this demand. With today’s newsletter, we would like to inform you exclusively and in advance of an outstanding innovation regarding your cherished LEICA M8.


    Subjects
    LEICA M8: An investment in the future

    What does the first upgrade kit include?

    How do I get the upgrade for my M8?

    Firmware update 1.201 available

    LEICA M8: An investment in the future

    With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments alo ng the way.
    This information will be presented during the PMA fair in Las Vegas, beginning January 31st.

    What does the first upgrade kit include?


    • Scratch-proof sapphire glass cover for the LCD monitor.
    • Noise-optimized shutter with a fastest speed of 1/4000s.
    • If so desired, the camera will be picked up at your home and sent directly back to you, without any intermediary stage in the process.
    • Health-check and complete adjustment of the camera, testing all its functions.
    • Installation of the newest relevant firmware.
    • New factory warranty of two years covering the same conditions as for a new camera.



    How do I get the upgrade for my M8?
    • This offer applies exclusively to all registered M8 users.
    • We will inform you shortly via e-mail when the website is updated with detailed information about the new M8 upgrade program, and will also inform you as soon as possible how to purchase the first upgrade certificates.
    • The fact that you are registered as a M8 owner will give you guaranteed access to an exclusive online area where you will be able to purchase your upgrade certificate.
    • Purchasing the upgrade certificates will be possible as of March 2008 - the actual upgrading will commence as of August 2008.
    • The upgrades will be fullfiled in the same order as the upgrade certificates were purchased. It is therefore advisable to acquire the certificate as quickly as possible.



    Firmware update 1.201 available
    In keeping with the overall sustainability of the concept of the rangefinder camera system, Leica Camera AG is now offering all LEICA M8 users an updated version of the camera firmware, which can be downloaded free of charge from Friday, February 1st from our website. Among other things, the new firmware version contains new, substantially improved automatic white balance algorithms for natural color rendering in nearly all light conditions. We will send you special information via e-mail which contains a direct link as soon as we post the firmware update on our website.



    We would feel very honored if you would be amongst the first to participate in our new program for the lifelong value retention of your M8.

    Yours Sincerely,
    The Leica internet team
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Jack and I will be at PMA on Saturday and i do have meetings setup with Leica so hopefully i can get even more detail from those meeting that i can bring to the forum and such. If folks have questions on what they would like me to ask , than please start a thread and i can bring it to the table and hopefully get answers for you. Have a great day
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Guy,
    Thanks for the post. While this is an interesting path, I wonder more about what is NOT being talked about as "upgrade" options......like maybe a new sensor at 16MP or so? How about that "non-coded lens" menu option?

    Not tossing cold water here, as I do appreciate the interest Leica is expressing. Just would like to understand how far the "upgrade" option might extend.

    LJ

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Me too and hopefully I can get more data on this Saturday.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    I'm a registered M8 owner, but no email for me.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Me too and hopefully I can get more data on this Saturday.
    Guy,
    Something that may be worth asking them is if they have some sort of "roadmap" for these "option upgrades", or if these are simply add-on charges for doing a minor tune-up and LCD screen cover replacement that should have been covered as being possibly a faulty design issue from the start.

    Again, not tossing cold water here, but this "seems" just a bit short on offering. Since we do not yet know how much more they want to charge us for this "option", that may temper some things too.

    Also worth asking is how some of these upgrade options may or may not be taken. For example....my LCD screen may be fine, I can do my own firmware update, and my camera has recently been tuned and adjusted....if I do not opt for this upgrade option now, what may be included or charged for in future options, should they become available? (This sort of relates to the first issue about any possible "roadmap". Just thinking about how many trips and at what costs for time and money to keep sending bodies back for new tweaks as Leica rolls out more option upgrades.)

    LJ

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    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    I'm a registered M8 owner, but no email for me.
    i haven't seen one yet either

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Guy, I'm guessing from what has been revealed about the 1.201 firmware that we are not going to get the proposed (by Sean and others) easy access to ISO and exposure compensation? In your opinion, is there any hope whatsoever that this might be implemented in the future, or are we simply SOL?

    BTW, I just got my email from Leica.

  9. #9
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Any word on the flash sync speed of the new shutter?

  10. #10
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Guy, I'm guessing from what has been revealed about the 1.201 firmware that we are not going to get the proposed (by Sean and others) easy access to ISO and exposure compensation? In your opinion, is there any hope whatsoever that this might be implemented in the future, or are we simply SOL?

    BTW, I just got my email from Leica.
    Great question and hard to say but it is on our list of questions once again
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    w00t!!!

    I just got it!!!!

    Love the "Best Before ∞" tag!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    maybe this means that an m9 is in the works?

    if i were marketing, i'd made sure that my m8 owners will be happy and assured that their m8 investment didn't become obsolete.



    edit: leica's announcement is very encouraging. whether or not an m9 is possible doesn't matter to me. the fact that leica has made a point to not allow the m8 to become obsolete by providing m8 owners a reasonable and continuos path of upgradability is very encouraging. there are no other camera company in the industry today that does what leica is doing. for example, nikon just came out with new cameras, and already the older cameras are obsolete. it's the unfortunate nature of the electronics industry. my favorite d70 has been obsolete since the d70s came out. it has been at nikon repair for over a week because parts for it are not immediately available. the d2x will soon to follow. suddenly, 5000$ has become even less extravagant to fork out for a leica. thank you leica.
    Last edited by Daniel; 30th January 2008 at 11:07.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Guy,

    No email here yet and I even attended the last workshop !!! Guess we'll have to find one with instructors that are IN with Leica! Seriously though, thanks for the updates and don't forget to ask them IF the Telyts will work with the new R10. Good luck with that one.

    Have a great workshop,

    Jim

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Guy, another thought is that we should ask for clarification that ongoing firmware development will not be necessarily tied to the latest upgrade, thereby stranding those of us who do not commit to an upgrade. I realize that in some cases part of a firmware upgrade may be specific to newer hardware, but original owners who elect not to upgrade shouldn't be left behind on more generic firmware upgradability.

    I mention this as the announcement specifically states that the upgrade includes:

    "Installation of the newest relevant firmware."

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Guy, another thought is that we should ask for clarification that ongoing firmware development will not be necessarily tied to the latest upgrade, thereby stranding those of us who do not commit to an upgrade. I realize that in some cases part of a firmware upgrade may be specific to newer hardware, but original owners who elect not to upgrade shouldn't be left behind on more generic firmware upgradability.
    Simon,
    I think Guy has created another thread for the questions. That aside, I agree with your thinking on this also. The shutter upgrade is just such a thing. I may want a quieter shutter on one body, but a faster shutter on another to handle using a Nocti in brighter light, for example. I sure would hate to miss firmware updates on the second body that I might get for the first one.

    LJ

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    GREAT question put that on the question thread please. Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Sorry, I missed the separate thread... have added those questions there.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    While I appreciate the intention, this does not really seem to me to be worth the 1200 euros it is supposed to cost. A sapphire screen? I have a 15 or 25 dollar schott glass protector covering mine...problem solved. How much quieter are we talking about? It's not exactly loud at the moment, so if you are going to sacrifice your highest shutter speed, then it better be significantly quieter. As for firmware, it's great that they are continuing to update it, but how many people can't handle the job of updating it themselves? Admittedly, the extra warranty and CLA is nice, but how long is it going to have to be in the shop in order to execute the upgrade? Also, it says they are not even going to start until August 2008...but they want you to buy the upgrade in March. So you shell out your 1200 euros in March or April and conceivably don't get an upgraded camera until October or November of 2008 (given how long the turnaround is for their normal repairs). Sounds like a great deal for Leica and a very bad one for the consumer.
    Don't get me wrong, I really like Leica and their cameras and wish them success with this, it just does not strike me as a very good deal. Who knows what cameras may be available by then...that will already be after Photokina and presumably there will be an R10, D3X, and any number of other new things that may or may not outperform the M8. All the things the upgrade covers are cosmetic or tangential to the image itself...if they were making it full-frame or with a new non-IR contaminated sensor, that would be another matter.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    While I appreciate the intention, this does not really seem to me to be worth the 1200 euros it is supposed to cost.
    1200 euros for the upgrade, but where did you get this figure from?

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    Re: M8 announcements

    That was the price quoted on the Leica forum at Photo.net (via some website).

  21. #21
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    That was the price quoted on the Leica forum at Photo.net (via some website).
    this one?

    http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ODJx

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Yes, if you follow the link in that thread, the website lists the price as 1200 euro. The website looks a little dubious, but they did break the story before the email was sent out, and all their information was correct.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Yes, if you follow the link in that thread, the website lists the price as 1200 euro. The website looks a little dubious, but they did break the story before the email was sent out, and all their information was correct.
    i hope the price is over-stated because i think it's unreasonably steep.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    After reading some of the threads and questions here and on the LUF (which was getting a bit toxic....thank you folks for keeping this place SO civil and helpful!!), I got to thinking about just what Leica is putting out there. This is an "option" upgrade, not required, and it may or may not suit one's needs. How this impacts future M8s remains to be seen. (This is a bit in reference to CMB's post on the "Leica Questions" thread.) It may become something like the "coded v. non-coded" lenses. The present stuff works and will keep working on existing gear. If one wants to use it for more recent/improved features, they need to get things "upgraded".

    There were several folks wondering if this option set would be part of newer M8s. Good question. As I understand how it is being positioned, this is still an "option", meaning the newer M8s may not have some of these features either. It looks to me at least, that this is sort of the beginning of an a la carte type program to some degree. In other words, we may be able to order a future M8 with one or two or three different shutter options, or maybe have different shutter releases, or some other feature turned on or off when we buy it. I know that it is not quite the same thing, but is sure does have a bit of that feel to it ;-)

    Just some more food for thought, and nobody is having to get any of the upgrades unless they so choose. For me, until I have a better idea of both future plans/options available and some costs associated with those options, there does not seem to be anything really compelling here yet. A quieter shutter would be nice if it is really quieter (can you hear "snick"??). The rest should have been designed in from the start for this level of camera, and should not require our paying for them a second time to get things "right".

    LJ

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    Re: M8 announcements

    just to put the price piece in perspective (and this is not an endorsement of the upgrade cost!) a couple of months ago there was a thread on LUF about a camera with a damaged shutter where it seemed to there was a crease in the metal that came from underneath. The cost to repair was extremely high. So, I would bet a big chunk of the upgrade price is related to the shutter.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Not disagreeing with you about the major part of that upgrade "cost", Terry, but that is still an awful lot of money. I recently had a shutter replaced on one of my Canon 1-series cameras. It was under warranty and cost me nothing, but if I had to replace it myself, it would have been about $200-300, and that would include a complete CLA, firmware update if available and return shipping. That is a huge difference from $1,800 for nearly the same sort of thing, but admittedly on a very different camera.

    Also, based on what Guy had just posted on another thread, that new titanium blade shutter may be quite quiet at that ("snick"), but your electronic sync drops to 1/80s, in addition to fastest speed dropping to 1/4000s. Quiet is good....not so sure about the other things one must "give up" for all that cost ;-)

    LJ

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Hi Guy,
    The flash sync is 1/180...
    The M8 will be available “New” with or without the upgrade...
    Along with the upgrade comes a complete “CLA Equivalent”...


    Sorry folks i said 1/80 th i was dead wrong. It is 1/180th .
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Thanks for that correction, Guy. The 1/80s seemed like a throwback a bit too far. The 1/180s is better for most applications.

    LJ

  29. #29
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Guy, another thought is that we should ask for clarification that ongoing firmware development will not be necessarily tied to the latest upgrade, thereby stranding those of us who do not commit to an upgrade. I realize that in some cases part of a firmware upgrade may be specific to newer hardware, but original owners who elect not to upgrade shouldn't be left behind on more generic firmware upgradability.

    I mention this as the announcement specifically states that the upgrade includes:

    "Installation of the newest relevant firmware."

    I can answer that one. All M8 owners will still be able to update their cameras with new firmware as it is released. The installation in the upgrade is just a convenience.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Also, it says they are not even going to start until August 2008...but they want you to buy the upgrade in March. So you shell out your 1200 euros in March or April and conceivably don't get an upgraded camera until October or November of 2008 (given how long the turnaround is for their normal repairs). Sounds like a great deal for Leica and a very bad one for the consumer.
    Since this upgrade will be available to everyone, I do not see why anyone should pay in March. Where does it say that? It only says "as of March" in the Leica email I got.
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    there is no other camera company in the industry that subscribes to leica's philosophy. this is unusual by today's digital camera industry's standards, and i applaud leica for taking this direction.

    so, i'm REALLY excited that leica is making efforts to protect our investment by providing future upgrade options to keep pace with changing technologies. this is a wow for me!

    of course i don't like forking out almost 1800$ for ANY upgrade, but, in all fairness, nothing is free. someone else has to make a living too -- specialized parts, materials, and specialized and intellectual labor aren't cheap!

    anyway, i think i'd opt for the quiet shutter and sacrifice the highest shutter speeds: 1/8000, and 1/250 for flash. but the quiet shutter still begs the question: how quiet is "quiet"? i've never heard an m7's shutter before so i have no idea what "quiet" means in this context.

    by the way, what is "CLA"?
    Last edited by Daniel; 31st January 2008 at 05:08.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Since this upgrade will be available to everyone, I do not see why anyone should pay in March. Where does it say that? It only says "as of March" in the Leica email I got.
    Carsten, in the US email it says the following:

    " • The fact that you are registered as a M8 owner will give you guaranteed access to an exclusive online area where you will be able to purchase your upgrade certificate.
    • Purchasing the upgrade certificates will be possible as of March 2008 - the actual upgrading will commence as of August 2008.
    • The upgrades will be fullfiled in the same order as the upgrade certificates were purchased. It is therefore advisable to acquire the certificate as quickly as possible."

    The last point suggests that you better purchase it as soon as it is available or your camera will have a long wait.

  33. #33
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Since this upgrade will be available to everyone, I do not see why anyone should pay in March. Where does it say that? It only says "as of March" in the Leica email I got.
    Hi Carsten,

    The advantage, in theory, would be having a place closer to the front of the line. The upgrades are, says Leica, being done on a "first come, first served" basis.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Where did I get the impression the upgrade included door to door shipping? I don't know if anybody has shipped somthing as valuable as an M8, but the shipping one way can be hundreds of dollars including insurance. If Leica's price includes shipping, the upgrade may not be as expensive as we think.

    Their original suggested price was in Euros and may have already included VAT. The US price may be cheaper. Leica may also just have a different price for different regions, like they do for everything else they sell.

  35. #35
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Where did I get the impression the upgrade included door to door shipping? I don't know if anybody has shipped somthing as valuable as an M8, but the shipping one way can be hundreds of dollars including insurance. If Leica's price includes shipping, the upgrade may not be as expensive as we think.

    Their original suggested price was in Euros and may have already included VAT. The US price may be cheaper. Leica may also just have a different price for different regions, like they do for everything else they sell.

    HI There - my email had the following:

    ____________________
    • If so desired, the camera will be picked up at your home and sent directly back to you, without any intermediary stage in the process.
    _____________________

    But I'm in the UK, so maybe it's different here?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There - my email had the following:

    ____________________
    • If so desired, the camera will be picked up at your home and sent directly back to you, without any intermediary stage in the process.
    _____________________

    But I'm in the UK, so maybe it's different here?
    I'm in the US (but I keep them confused, with an Israeli address as well), and saw the same. They have said that your credit cards will be charged in EUR. They have not said anything about VAT. I expect it is included, but one might ask for it to be reduced or removed in countries where it does not exist.


    The email was signed "the Leica Internet Team," which is the same group within Leica Camera AG which handled the 30% discount lens sales. I am sure that there is a serious discussion ongoing between Leica's direct marketing people and their international distribution chain. And users have some say in the resulting negotiation about VAT impact, which makes this an interesting piece of business practice to watch in the internet age. Again, on the lens direct marketing program, the shipping was paid for by Leica, and the risk of loss was theirs as well, since the lens belonged to them until delivered to your doorstep.

    scott

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    Hi Carsten,

    The advantage, in theory, would be having a place closer to the front of the line. The upgrades are, says Leica, being done on a "first come, first served" basis.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Sean, when your NDA deadline expires today or tomorrow, would you mind explaining whether the order for an upgrade must be accompanied by payment, or is simply a signed committment to pay for the upgrade when your turn comes?

    scott

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Carsten, in the US email it says the following:

    " • The fact that you are registered as a M8 owner will give you guaranteed access to an exclusive online area where you will be able to purchase your upgrade certificate.
    • Purchasing the upgrade certificates will be possible as of March 2008 - the actual upgrading will commence as of August 2008.
    • The upgrades will be fullfiled in the same order as the upgrade certificates were purchased. It is therefore advisable to acquire the certificate as quickly as possible."

    The last point suggests that you better purchase it as soon as it is available or your camera will have a long wait.
    Oops, "purchasing the upgrade certificate" sound like words chosen carefully, making it clear that you are purchasing something concrete, the "certificate," and not just signing up for a place in line. I guess they are factoring the 3+ month loan into their business case this time.

    scott

  39. #39
    PaulMayeux
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    Re: M8 announcements

    I just received another email from Leica. This one had a link to their site where they had a soundbyte file from both the old shutter and the new shutter. The new is a little quieter.

    In all I think this is a great deal. If I understand it correctly, the camera will be continually upgraded as upgrades become available, not just the sapphire screen and the shutter. I would expect that if a new sensor becomes available we'll get that as well.

  40. #40
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    Re: M8 announcements

    CLA= Clean, Lubricate and Adjust

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Something I need on a regular basis.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMayeux View Post
    In all I think this is a great deal. If I understand it correctly, the camera will be continually upgraded as upgrades become available, not just the sapphire screen and the shutter. I would expect that if a new sensor becomes available we'll get that as well.
    Without paying a new amount of money ?
    In that case the offer sounds interesting.

  43. #43
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Something I need on a regular basis.
    ROBOGUY!

  44. #44
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Oops, "purchasing the upgrade certificate" sound like words chosen carefully, making it clear that you are purchasing something concrete, the "certificate," and not just signing up for a place in line. I guess they are factoring the 3+ month loan into their business case this time.

    scott
    That's right, one buys a certificate and yes, it is a nice way to bring in money in advance.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  45. #45
    PaulMayeux
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Without paying a new amount of money ?
    In that case the offer sounds interesting.

    That is the way I understand it. Starting in March, x amount of money buys a certificate for perpetual upgrades to the camera, the first of which is the new shutter, lcd screen and firmware etc. Perpetual, as I understand, means that as future improvements are made, one simple sends the camera in and it is taken care of under that certificate that was purchased.

    Do others concur?

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMayeux View Post
    That is the way I understand it. Starting in March, x amount of money buys a certificate for perpetual upgrades to the camera, the first of which is the new shutter, lcd screen and firmware etc. Perpetual, as I understand, means that as future improvements are made, one simple sends the camera in and it is taken care of under that certificate that was purchased.

    Do others concur?
    That sounds too good to be true to me. I'm expecting that one "certificate" buys just one upgrade.

    scott

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Me too Scott I will make sure of this though on Saturday
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #48
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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMayeux View Post
    That is the way I understand it. Starting in March, x amount of money buys a certificate for perpetual upgrades to the camera, the first of which is the new shutter, lcd screen and firmware etc. Perpetual, as I understand, means that as future improvements are made, one simple sends the camera in and it is taken care of under that certificate that was purchased.

    Do others concur?
    Not a chance
    Nice idea, but why would they do that? especially when they talk of sensor and processor updates.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Not a chance
    Nice idea, but why would they do that? especially when they talk of sensor and processor updates.
    I concur with Jono on this. This recent deal from Leica is essentially "Option 1" upgrade, and includes a specific set of things (shutter, LCD cover, CLA, warranty extension). That costs the price they are talking about (1200 euros). If/when there is an "Option 2" upgrade package, it will have whatever is going to be done for that package, and will have its own price. A sensor and electronics swap is going to cost something at whenever time that is offered.

    The idea of "pay once for unlimited upgrades" is nice, but not a practical business idea, especially when you have no idea of what future updates and costs for those may be.

    LJ

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    Re: M8 announcements

    Guy,
    What would be an interesting question to ask is if Leica is also considering some sort of discounting on future option updates. By that I mean if you take Option 1 now, will you get some break on a later option over the then going price? Also, what about a "bundling" concept? Say you do not take this option right now, but there is an option a year from now that involves a sensor and electronics swap. At that time, since the camera would have to be disassembled/opened, would opting for old and new options at one time cost a bit less than doing one now and another one later? I realize they may not know what costs things will be yet, but this goes back to my "roadmap" concept.....if there is some sort of known set of things to update and a plan for rolling those out, it would really be helpful. One might wait for the second round, pay some bundled price and get everything done at once for less than doing two separate updates.

    This sort of thing would sound very attractive, and it might insure a longevity that folks are looking for at something more affordable. This really would support any used camera market quite well.

    LJ

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