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View Poll Results: Once the Leica M9 is available, what's the most you'd pay for a like-new M8 or M8.2?

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  • 90% of the M9 price

    1 1.04%
  • 75% of the M9 price

    4 4.17%
  • 50% of the M9 price

    20 20.83%
  • 30% of the M9 price

    8 8.33%
  • Nothing over $2000

    43 44.79%
  • Nothing over $1000

    12 12.50%
  • Wouldn't take it if you gave it to me

    8 8.33%
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Thread: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

  1. #1
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    M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Assuming that the Leica M9 lives up to its leaks, I'm guessing that approximately 100% of current M8 owners would rather have an M9 instead. Some might consider keeping the M8 as a backup, but I suspect that sooner or later most will ditch it.

    Meanwhile, the improvements on the M9 will bring the M8's shortcomings into even sharper relief (low pixel count by today's standards, mediocre high-ISO performance, the need for those dratted IR filters) so would-be buyers of used M8s likely will decide to hold out until they can afford an M9.

    Lots of potential sellers / few potential buyers = price crash, right?

    So, this poll: How low would the price of a like-new M8 have to drop relative to the M9 before you'd consider buying one?

  2. #2
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Can't afford an M9 or M8.2. Am getting an M8 instead. Warts and all.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  3. #3
    Daveco
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Although I would love to have an M9 instead of my M8, making the change is a low priority, unless the price of the M9 is lower than I've seen predicted. I'll probably hang onto my M8 until there is an M10, and then I'll pick up a used M9.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    I'm fairly confident that I will probably keep my M8 until the end of (my) time. Which is not to say that I won't start saving for an M9. And for sure on 9/9/09 (or whatever the actual date happens to be) my M8 will still be better than me.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    will keep the M8 as long as it works (besides.. it's *way* too beat up to ever sell). we'll see how the price turns out on the M9

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    I'm curious, are there enough interested used M8 buyers to soak up all those discarded M8s?

    When the M8 came out there was a brief glut of M7s. But they stabilized in price. The difference this time is we are talking used digital!

  7. #7
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    will keep the M8 as long as it works (besides.. it's *way* too beat up to ever sell). we'll see how the price turns out on the M9
    Of all people I would think you would hoard cheap used ones for IR.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Of all people I would think you would hoard cheap used ones for IR.
    shhhhhh

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    I was thinking the same thing - what a nice IR camera the M8 would make. Hell, I've almost got myself convinced to buy my own M8 for that purpose!

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    I think that the poll is somewhat spurious because the value of an M8.2 is almost certainly higher than an M8 or M8u.

    If the M9 is at the $7k+ level, then there's plenty of scope for M8.2 about $3500+ and no reason why M8's should be less than $2-2500 IMHO.

  11. #11
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I think that the poll is somewhat spurious because the value of an M8.2 is almost certainly higher than an M8 or M8u.

    If the M9 is at the $7k+ level, then there's plenty of scope for M8.2 about $3500+ and no reason why M8's should be less than $2-2500 IMHO.
    True, but I would think that the spread between the M9 and either model will be larger than the spread between the two models -- so the survey still should have some validity (although the two-model issue makes it a bit "noisier.")

    Conveniences aside, the fundamental photographic issues with the M8 -- the non-traditional sensor size, and the need for lens IR filters -- were not resolved by the M8.2, but will (presumably) be resolved by the M9. Over time that's going to tend to lump the two 8 models together, although presumably the 8.2 will be considered "less undesirable" of the two.

    Eventually it may turn into the same sort of distinction as two-stroke vs. one-stroke M3s: a matter for debate among aficionados but of little concern to anyone else.

    That brings up another question that interests me sociologically: Will M8s and M8.2s become "collectible"? Sometimes I wonder if any digital camera will ever become "collectible" in the same sense as an early Leica, Contax or Nikon...

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Curious - Has the US dollar become the official currency of this forum? Am I under a misapprehension that we are using the World Wide Web?

    For the record - "I have not, nor am I likely ever to; make a purchase with US dollars".

    ............. Chris

  13. #13
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    At the risk of global currency wars, my local dealer is guessing a price north of $10K USD for the M9. In which case I think the M8.x prices aren't going to go totally in the tank...

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Of all people I would think you would hoard cheap used ones for IR.
    Great idea, Terry!

    Keep an M8 (or 8.2), take all the IR filters off the lenses, set the camera to monochrome JPEG mode, fire away! I will try this.

  15. #15
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    Poll update

    So, far, the results of the admittedly small sample seem to be gravitating nicely toward two basins of attraction: Those who would contemplate the M8.x as a half-price M9 alternative, and those who would pay a maximum of $2000 for this tool.

    [Incidentally, in response to a previous note, "$" is the abbreviation for "$lp%n*x", the official currency of the Andromeda galaxy, which coincidentally happens to equate roughly 1:1 to the US dollar because of unexplained subspace resonances in the intergalactic financial system. Your mileage, or parsecage, may vary. Note that the use of the Illudium Q36 Space Modulator for currency manipulation is forbidden by intergalactic treaty.]

    The fact that M9 price guesses are floating between AG$6,000 and AG$10,000 means it's hard to tell how far apart these two basins might be, but the fact that there are definite spikes at these two points interests me.

    This may wind up being an interesting echo of the experience of the Epson R-D 1, which was a slow seller at its original $2,999 price, but wound up enjoying a certain amount of demand as a $1,999 refurb.

  16. #16
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    This is a matter of supply/demand. Soon, there will be a lot of used/no warranty M8s on the market, due to people buying M9s and trying to get what they can out of their M8s.

    Used M8s have been going for roughly $2300-$2500 lately, speaking of nice condition units with boxes, extra batteries, etc. I would expect this to drop to the $1800 range, maybe as low as $1500 within a few weeks.

  17. #17
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    At the risk of global currency wars, my local dealer is guessing a price north of $10K USD for the M9. In which case I think the M8.x prices aren't going to go totally in the tank...
    If the UK price I've heard is correct, there'd have to be a major shift in the exchange rate for that to be true.

  18. #18
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    This is a matter of supply/demand. Soon, there will be a lot of used/no warranty M8s on the market, due to people buying M9s and trying to get what they can out of their M8s.

    Used M8s have been going for roughly $2300-$2500 lately, speaking of nice condition units with boxes, extra batteries, etc. I would expect this to drop to the $1800 range, maybe as low as $1500 within a few weeks.
    My M8 sold for $3497 about two months ago, so that is a pretty steep drop in price.

  19. #19
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Carl, did your M8 have any upgrades or leftover warranty or other items?

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    This is a matter of supply/demand. Soon, there will be a lot of used/no warranty M8s on the market, due to people buying M9s and trying to get what they can out of their M8s.

    Used M8s have been going for roughly $2300-$2500 lately, speaking of nice condition units with boxes, extra batteries, etc. I would expect this to drop to the $1800 range, maybe as low as $1500 within a few weeks.
    +1

    Welcome to the digital depreciation curve. Assuming they don't do anything stupid (within the Leica context) on price and the 'reviews' are good, you'll be seeing clean M8s at $1800 or modestly less pretty quickly. For at least the initial "I wanna" bubble and then for the sequel after the first in-depth reviews, you're going to see a rare buyer's market in M8_s and M glass (especially for the UWAs) as folks raid their cupboards for M9 money. I suspect you'll see some so-called collectibles hit the market as well.

    Good time to go shopping. Not my ball of wax, but pickup some nice-priced glass you've been lusting, a good-rep/clean M8_ that's depreciated to hell and back, shoot that for awhile until you're certain Leica got the M9's recipe right.

    Any dealer quoting US$10K for the M9 is likely just doing a guesstimate (or looking to do a Harley Davidson pricing model (e.g. > list in seller's market)). On the S2 Leica took something off the top of the straight UK/EU -> US rate to allow for the importance of the US market to their sales volume and the accommodate the usual EU/UK vs NA price premium. I'd guess around $7000ish. Not $10K, but certainly the better part of it.

    Let the feeding frenzy (on both sides) begin.
    Last edited by robmac; 7th September 2009 at 07:06.

  21. #21
    nei1
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    If M8"s do drop in price significantly surely this obvious depreciation will hit all future leica sales including the M9;one of the few remaining leica strengths has been lts lack of depreciation,your wealthy amateur will find it harder to justify the purchase to their wide eyed friends.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    This all sounds like wishful thinking to me. I'd use my M8 as a paper weight before selling it for $1,500. or even $1,800. It's still one heck of an image maker. Plus, I like the 1/8000th shutter option. The IR idea sounds good also ... IR with M glass for $1,500. ... why not?

    Just like with any of these digital cameras, the actual incremental gain rarely is in keeping with the price differential. Will a M9 be 5 or 6 times as good as a used M8? I think we will all be surprised.

    -Marc

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Carl, did your M8 have any upgrades or leftover warranty or other items?
    Robert, Yes, so I guess if you deduct the approx. value of the upgrades (shutter & vulcanite) and remaining warranty that would leave you with a number more in line with your estimates.

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    M8 for 1500 okay I'm buying. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Simple supply and demand - regardless of how good the images are or who made it. A lot fo folks are going to need/want to sell their M8_ to raise funds/justify a 9 - especially once GAS hits full tilt as the inevitable "...it's an extension of my creative karma...", etc 'reviews' come in and they can see the beast in the flesh.

    This is Leica's (Nikon) D3 'Moment'. A dramatic, step-wise correction, then bottoming, of after-market pricing within the line where the top of the (8.0) curve is the current ASKING price of US$2300 +/-. One unknown is what, if any, remaining stock Solms has and what they will do with it. The price difference of an 8u or 8.2 vs an 8.0 will also be easier to justify to an existing M user looking for a 2nd body vs. a 1st time digital M-buyer - there the seller will have to work a bit harder to justify the difference.

    Like the man says, "be careful what you wish for". People bugged Solms since day 1 for an M8 in FF and it's paid off - but with the bubbly, shaking wallets and party favors comes the inevitable downside...
    Last edited by robmac; 7th September 2009 at 15:19.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Assuming the M9 is real and the specs are accurate, the a M9 is the same pixel pitch as the M8. And since it's a Kodak CCD (presumably), then the DR and noise will be about the same. There might be some evolutionary improvements, but I'm not expecting any profound improvements. I expect a M9 image cropped down to the M8 size to look about identical at the pixel level. If the M9's performance is about that of the M8, then I think there will be a strong market for used M8's because people we'll see them as a worthy $2500 alternative to the $7000(?) M9. I do think M8.2 owners are going to see harsh depreciation.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    The M9 will surely be an excellent camera and a welcome addition. However, the M8 is no slouch and it produces images/prints that defy its 10 mpix cropped sensor resolution. I think that most current M8 owners wanting to upgrade to the M9 will only sell their M8s if they can get enough money out of them - I don't think they will give them away for ridiculous low prices. I also expect the used M8 prices to be relative to the price of the M9 such that a high priced M9 will help hold value for the M8. If the M9 price comes in around the current M8.2 price, then I think M8 prices will tumble below $2k. If the M9 comes in at $7k or $8, then I think M8 prices will likely stay above $2k for a few months.

    Of course this is just me thinking out loud and contemplating whether to sell my M8 for an M9 or keep it for use with longer focal lengths and as backup. It will all depend on the M9 price and its affect on the used market. Also, I expect used lens prices to go up due to demand because I think there have been a good number of people waiting for the M9 (full frame, no IR filters). Or who knows, sell the M system and get an S2 along with an X1.

    I am shocked, it now appears that, as of 9/9, Leica will have three cameras I want. That didn't seem possible just a couple months ago. Bravo Leica. Its too bad I don't have enough cash for all three.

    Mark

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Simple supply and demand - regardless of how good the images are or who made it. A lot fo folks are going to need/want to sell their M8_ to raise funds/justify a 9 - especially once the inevitable "...it's an extension of my creative karma...", etc 'reviews' come in and they can see the beast in the flesh.

    This is Leica's (Nikon) D3 'Moment'. A dramatic, step-wise correction, then bottoming, of after-market pricing within the line where the top of the (8.0) curve is the current ASKING price of US$2300 +/-.

    Like the man says, "be careful what you wish for". People bugged Solms since day 1 for an M8 in FF and it's paid off - but with the bubbly, shaking wallets and party favors comes the inevitable downside...
    Well, since Leica Land is a small universe filled with gabby old lady types, and this kind of post reaches the far corners of the Galaxy, no one will now buy a M8 for over $2,000. so it'll be a stalemate. Anyone that can cough up $8,000. or more for a M9 probably isn't rummaging around for a spare $1,500. ... which is less than a M7 goes for.

    Oh, and just how many M8 are there out there to "flood the market ? The Nikon analogy seems a bit off

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Last edited by robmac; 7th September 2009 at 16:02.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    No sweat off my rump ... I need two M digital cameras to shoot weddings with and I sure am not coughing up $16,000. to do it. A M9 and a back-up M8 for use with the 24 Lux since it doesn't need an aux finder to use it like the M9 will, plus the 1/8000th shutter may be handy for the 50 Lux.

    Sorry, still think the Nikon analogy is off base. The D3 wasn't 5 or 6X the price of a used D2x, and there are a ton more Nikon DSLRs compared to Leica Ms.

    I also think that the current M8 pricing IS already an effect of the months of M9 rumors.

    But, hey, you are probably right ... some lemmings will run off the cliff no matter what.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    It might dip a bit to start but I too think the D3 analogy is a bit of a stretch also. I think it'll bounce back. There aren't that many M8s floating around. Also, those that might have wanted to try rangefinder shooting will probably find the entry point for used M8s appealing. The funny thing about cold clear facts, economic theories, price elasticity, etc. is that they tend to discount human emotion ... and there is a lot of emotion in Leica products and rangefinder shooting ... especially when those 10 megapixels produce as nice of files as they do.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    . . . and not EVERYONE will be selling to fund their M9. Some will buy an M9 as a second camera. Some who have 2 M8's might sell/trade-in one and pick up an M9. And their are those who have an "original" M8 - no upgrades - in mint condition with all the original packing etc., etc., who will sit on them thinking that some day this will fund an S2!!!

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Such baloney. The first electronic watch was the Acutron by Bulova. Show me where the price of a mint condition Acutron has kept pace with a mint Patek Phillip from the same time period. There is a difference between a hand made mechanical device requiring skilled craftsmanship and a digital electronic device assembled by mostly robotics. While the M8 is a little of each, its reputation in both the mechanical and electronics side have not been stellar. Given how high Leica's repair prices are one has to think about what a repair might cost ( a defective sensor, a broken shutter, etc.) and mentally add that to the price paid while hoping to never have to pay it. Since Leica doesn't allow a transfer of warranty and many of these cameras will be out of warranty anyway you have to mentally add the possibility of a $1,000 outlay for repairs. Thus, mentally, a $2,000 camera is really a $3,000 but you hope to never have to pay the other $1,000.
    V/r John

  34. #34
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    The change in price of pre-owned uncoded lenses is another thing worth contemplating, 21mm 24mm 50mm in particular, which weren't so popular with the M8 series. Does the M8 have framelines for the 135mm focal length?

  35. #35
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Can't afford an M9 or M8.2. Am getting an M8 instead. Warts and all.
    I've been happily using an an M8 and once they fixed the initial problem (for free) I have noticed no warts at all :-). Even if I get the M9, I'd hate to give up the M8.

  36. #36
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mango View Post
    Does the M8 have framelines for the 135mm focal length?
    Yes, 35 and 135 / 28 and 90 / 50 and 75

  37. #37
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Thanks vikasmg for the frameline information.

    I think the attraction, and therefore price for pre-owned Noctiluxes, 75mm Summiluxes, and 90mm lenses will also increase. This is great news for the whole Leica lineup, not just the bodies, but the lenses as well.

    I like the 24mm framelines on the M8.

  38. #38
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mango View Post
    The change in price of pre-owned uncoded lenses is another thing worth contemplating, 21mm 24mm 50mm in particular, which weren't so popular with the M8 series. Does the M8 have framelines for the 135mm focal length?
    This assumes that the M9 will work properly with uncoded lenses.

    I assume differently. I think that firmware is how Leica solved the FF & IR issues, and the M9 needs to know exactly which lens is on the camera.

    Think about it ... either they have a revolutionary sensor design no one else has that eliminates IR and vignetting with lenses so close to the FF sensor, or they don't. If not, then how else can IR and vignetting be dealt with?

    Whether the M9 will allow non-coded lenses to be programed in like Nikon does remains to be seen ... I personally doubt it since it would be a ferocious undertaking to map all the possible combinations.

    If I am correct on this, then the M8s will be the camera for heritage lenses and some of the 3rd party offerings (Zeiss/Voight/Canon).

    I guess we'll find out on Weds.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Such baloney. The first electronic watch was the Acutron by Bulova. Show me where the price of a mint condition Acutron has kept pace with a mint Patek Phillip from the same time period. There is a difference between a hand made mechanical device requiring skilled craftsmanship and a digital electronic device assembled by mostly robotics. While the M8 is a little of each, its reputation in both the mechanical and electronics side have not been stellar. Given how high Leica's repair prices are one has to think about what a repair might cost ( a defective sensor, a broken shutter, etc.) and mentally add that to the price paid while hoping to never have to pay it. Since Leica doesn't allow a transfer of warranty and many of these cameras will be out of warranty anyway you have to mentally add the possibility of a $1,000 outlay for repairs. Thus, mentally, a $2,000 camera is really a $3,000 but you hope to never have to pay the other $1,000.
    Agreed, (except for the "Baloney" part), but there is a point of diminishing returns at work here. Yes, it is easily conceivable that a used M8 will initially go to $2,000. Maybe even a bit lower, but at some point those that want a Leica digital rangefinder have a choice ... $8,000. or a M8. I know a LOT of Leica users that simply won't or can't hack a $8,000. Digital M. (I think those that hope the M9 will be $6,500. are smoking something, and aren't watching Leica's recent, even more premium pricing strategy).

    IMO, the M8s have stabilized in terms of reliability. Early ones have all been repaired if needed, and it seems to have calmed down. I had a horrible time at first, but now the cameras have been very reliable (knock on wood).

    BTW, a Leica M7 isn't a Patek Phillip, nor is it a collectors item. It's a film camera that mostly depends on electronics whether built by robots or shaky human hands

  40. #40
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    My guess is that price on mint-ish M8 will stabilize around $1500. After all, it's a Leica and it takes Leica lenses, which means the market is not as price sensitive as would have been the case with a Japanese brand. At $1500 an M8 would be a nice complement to an existing collection of M lenses.

    At the same time, M8 will go down in history as one of Leica's lemons - its first real attempt at a digital system (ignoring the S1 here). My guess is the M9 will be such a good camera that it will put the M8 completely to shame. After all, all those great M8 shots are made by M glass rather than the camera, and M9 will be a true eye-opener for M8 owners.
    Last edited by Lars; 8th September 2009 at 02:33.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    M9 or bust. I have to admit that I have no interest in the M8 at all anymore. I helped a friend secure one last week: Put up an ad on a Norwegian website. Within 24 hrs I had scored one for around $2000 (12000 NOK). Sure, I got the usual share of $2800-$4000(!!!) offers, but it didn't take much work at all.

    Personally, I will either get the M9 - or stay away from Leica M digitals.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Some good responses. At the end of the day the M8 is a digital camera. Not the same world at all as for film. It will lose value. The majority of those holding out for digital FF and are not in an M8 yet probably already have an investment in M lenses. There are a few used lenses that will go up in value for FF. I agree with the comment that non-coded lens may have a problem on the M9. Current pricing puts leica back in the elite camp going forward. I think they should add a year onto their warranty. But used M8's and alternative lenses will be very attractive to others who may want to try a rangefinder. They will have to have spare cash because the M8 will not be their primary system. At current used prices, those waiting to get in at a lower price point are mostly there. Just an alternative view. Very interesting discussion.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I guess we'll find out on Weds.
    We won't find out everything on Wednesday. The initial problems with the M8 (highlight streaking, IR color shifts) weren't caught (or at least weren't acknowledged) by Leica before release and didn't appear until the cameras got into photographers' hands.

    Even then, I seem to recall a certain period of denial, in which some photographers were posting examples showing problems, while others (and Leica) were questioning their methodology and trying to pretend that nothing was wrong. I hope Leica learned from that experience!

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by vikasmg View Post
    Yes, 35 and 135 / 28 and 90 / 50 and 75
    Really? Hmmmm...my M8 framelines are 24/35, 50/75, 28/90 combos. The 135 is approximated to be the size of the focus patch, but there are no framelines for it that I have ever seen.

    LJ

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    they should start showing up at keeble here in palo alto shortly, most with little mileage--like a few pics of flowers in the backyard, the dog and maybe even an exciting trip to Yosemite (we got way more people with money than 'photographers' out here!). as the price drops, i'll pick one up--it will be a great back-up camera for assignments. a little photoshop and the shots are agency ready!

  46. #46
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Really? Hmmmm...my M8 framelines are 24/35, 50/75, 28/90 combos. The 135 is approximated to be the size of the focus patch, but there are no framelines for it that I have ever seen.

    LJ
    The question was about M9 framelines, not M8.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The question was about M9 framelines, not M8.
    Well, if you look at post #36, the answer to the question was referring to the M8, NOT the M9.

    LJ

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Agreed, (except for the "Baloney" part), but there is a point of diminishing returns at work here. Yes, it is easily conceivable that a used M8 will initially go to $2,000. Maybe even a bit lower, but at some point those that want a Leica digital rangefinder have a choice ... $8,000. or a M8. I know a LOT of Leica users that simply won't or can't hack a $8,000. Digital M. (I think those that hope the M9 will be $6,500. are smoking something, and aren't watching Leica's recent, even more premium pricing strategy).
    I assume that with the X1 priced at $2000 one would have a bit of a time finding a decent M8 at less....not mine at least.

    Bob

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    I think we're seeing a certain amount of "endowment effect" among M8 owners here.

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    Re: M8: The Race for the Bottom Begins!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    I think we're seeing a certain amount of "endowment effect" among M8 owners here.
    I disagree. The M9 price at $6,995 USD bodes well for used M8 prices. On top of that, I think the M8 used prices are propped up by the expected $1,995 USD price for the X1. As much as I have begged Leica for an X1 type camera, I would also be hard pressed to pay $2k for an X1 (1.5x crop CMOS fixed lens) when I could get a used M8 (1.33 crop CCD M mount) for just slightly more. In fact I find myself in this very dilemma - would I rather get another M8 or an X1.

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