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Thread: MF street shooter pack?

  1. #1
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    MF street shooter pack?

    Okay, this should be an easy one for Guy and Jack, as well as others here.

    Suppose you're an M8 shooter who loves street shooting, most often with 28, 35 and 50 lenses. You never shoot landscapes, macro, sports or wildlife. You want portability, light weight and the ability to quickly compose, focus and shoot...

    BUT...

    you're interested in the great files that MF provides. Here's the question:

    For this shooter, what's the best MF combo of back, body, lenses and accessories? Have at it!

    Thanks,
    Brad

  2. #2
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Brad i am working on this right NOW . LOL

    I came up with a neat idea that already exists but with a few modifications to save money and come up with a P&S MF back. I'm probably going to sell my Horseman sliding back with finder and get this Alpa 12 TC idea instead. Getting prices now

    I just don't do a lot of stitching and shifting so this makes better sense for me because I like to shoot street
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    That Alpa thingy is the coolest. Damn.

    I think we need some sort of symbol for the posts that contain stuff you're gonna want. A yellow skull and crossbones with a dollar sign behind it maybe.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    That Alpa thingy is the coolest. Damn.

    I think we need some sort of symbol for the posts that contain stuff you're gonna want. A yellow skull and crossbones with a dollar sign behind it maybe.
    Bingo !!!!!

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    How about a little ship that is slowly sinking a bit more with each purchase, until only the tip of the bow is showing above the waterline. Or in the case of some folks, just a few bubbles rising?



    I think we need some sort of symbol for the posts that contain stuff you're gonna want. A yellow skull and crossbones with a dollar sign behind it maybe.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Closest I could come. This is the SS Medium Format... in for repairs

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Hope you guy's have money this ain't the cheapest route but I got Lance working on it. CI is a Alpa dealer also.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Warning!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Love it Tim. When Jack gets home I will have him download it and make it a emotion that we all can use
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    So, this would mean no mirror slap and an ability to use some very nice wide lenses?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Exactly Kurt. What it buy's you is some extremely great wide angles. The Horseman does also and with the Alpa you lose all those functions of the Horseman like shift for one and than of course stitching and if your really brave you can do a 9 shot stitch 3 bottom 3 middle and 3 top that would be over 1gb of data. Print about the size of NY city block for God sakes. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    For all-in-focus street shooting it'd be interesting to see how much it might give you in terms of stops and or ISO ...

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Hope you guy's have money this ain't the cheapest route but I got Lance working on it. CI is a Alpa dealer also.
    Just curious Guy

    What is wrong with the PhaseBody you (will) have and the 28 or 35 lenses. The shape of the body is kind of ideal for street work as it mimics a DSLR so it should be fine. And as auto focus is really nice for street work a plus compared to the Alpa. Just curious

    Woody

  15. #15
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    I had a chance to shoot with ALPA TC, ALPA SWA12, ALPA XY....


    However, I spend most of my time with:

    ALPA TC + Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/24 mm XL
    ALPA TC + Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital HR 4.5/28 mm

    Both Cameras are mounted on separate ALPA Frames, I am sorry I can't get used to calling it Camera because it looks like a frame for side bed table pictures

    At first when I heard my friends talking about these ALPA Cameras... they had equal number of ALPA TC Cameras per lens. I realized later, it was very practical in the field.. but the day before that... I said, I can't possibly ask if I heard them saying they have ALPA TC per every lens they own, because of the cost etc.... and finally to my surprise it's true, they did have ALPA TC Camera per every lens they own.... I didn't have to ask

    So, ALPA TC is very small convenient, affordable even though they told me it went up US$400 because exchange rate

    I am sure it is build solid with 100% precision, but even in that regard we laughed hard because the viewfinder that came along with camera had a front ring that was off a little ALPA said it's not that important not to bother, but they will gladly exchange it!!!

    Another experience that was important for me is switching between the two systems Mamiya -> ALPA -> Mamiya. I personally think it is important to remember that ALPA TC camera is just a frame, and when you mount your Digital Back on it you are not collecting any dust obviously, but when you're done and you switch to Mamiya/etc. yes you can put a cap on the lens but you have nothing to put on the back of the Frame/Camera (remember, your Mamiya mount is mounted on the frame in case you need/wish to switch back to ALPA again!!!

    I found that really overlooked and something you may need to add to your order

    Logically, it should come as the cover for the DB adapter of your choice Hasselblad/SINAR/Leaf/PHASE!!!


    I thought about this because it's nothing to do with image quality and could easily be overlooked!!!

    In general I had fun shooting with ALPA TC and I will definitely buy one much sooner than I think The only difficulty I must admit was guestimating the distance for optimum sharpness but I was advised with one of these LEICA Laser Meters there shouldn't be a problem

    Bottom line, ALPA is interchangeable system and therefore I see it as my way to go...... because take a look at it this way, ALPA comes as small as Leica and as big as EBONY and all that with Superior lenses, also interchangeable superior MF lenses (Schneider/Carl Zeiss) and with superior image quality with the DB of your choice!!!

    There is more info on my experience but long to wright everything in General at once

    Again, would I ever need more than this, FINALLY not

    I would like to encourage ALPA owners... to share your experience/Tips/guestimating/solution???

  16. #16
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Exactly Kurt. What it buy's you is some extremely great wide angles. The Horseman does also and with the Alpa you lose all those functions of the Horseman like shift for one and than of course stitching and if your really brave you can do a 9 shot stitch 3 bottom 3 middle and 3 top that would be over 1gb of data. Print about the size of NY city block for God sakes. LOL

    Guy, you are actually loosing nothing, if anything you are gaining more..... they have it in the family already

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    My choice for that with a MFDB is the Phase One/Mamiya body with the P30+ back and either the 45, 55, or 80 lenses.

    The Mamiya body seems to be the lightest DSLR. The new AFDIII is improved in the mirror dampening to better the handholding. The Mamiya lenses are the smallest.

    The P30+ is the microlensed and faster shooting back that goes to 1600 ISO.

    On the P30+ these are the equivalent 35mm focal lengths per Lance's calculator spreadsheet. (45=35, 55=43, 80=63, and 150=118) Basically a 45, 80, 150 combo on the P30+ is my M8 kit with 28, 50, 90 combo.

    The P30+/Mamiya system is a focal plane shutter that does fast shutter speeds but only 1/125 flash sync, and is about a perfect of a system for available light photography in MF that you can get.

    The other advantage of the Phase/Mamiya P30+ system is that it is autofocus and completely integrated.

    You will also find that the price on the P30+ system is less than the other P25+ system, even though it has higher megapixels due to the slightly smaller sensor with its 1.3x crop vs. 1.1x crop.

    I recommended the Phase/Mamiya over the Hassy 31 MP system (Hassy has the same sensor) due to weight, size, and focal plane shutter for your use.

    FYI - I own this Phase system in addition to my Hassy H3DII39 system. Each one has different uses and purpose. The P30+ is my lightweight, available light, fast shutter system.

    Best,

    Ray

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Guy, you are actually loosing nothing, if anything you are gaining more..... they have it in the family already
    Your right i could simply buy the SW I think it is or one of there other Frames let's call it and use the lenses on any of them, so yes there is some advantage there to. Darn stuff is expensive . Okay my little secret thought is not buy that viewfinder at 1200 dollars . But the Hot shoe attachment for around 138 or 160 dollars than revert back to the M8 here and use the externals finders for that , much smaller and you could use a leica 21,24,28 finder or the finder for the Wate lens . Which is the Tri-elmar 16,18,21= WATE or a Zeiss finder my favorite . So you can save a whole bunch of money on just using these finders instead and there much smaller. Now Alpa does seem to sell a plate for the back end. I say seem because not sure if it will fit on your camera plate to protect the back of the lens when the back is on your main body like the Mamiya . The Alpha will accept Phase, Hassy and Contax mount backs . Not sure on Leaf or Sinar though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Sinar Hy6 and LeafAfi adapters are in production at Alpa.
    Should be released in a couple of months.
    Anyway,if you have a Sinar back with any adapter(Contax,Mamiya etc) Alpa has adapters
    readily available.
    There is a shooter in OZ that's selling his Alpa TC kit for $30K.
    Alpa TC 12 including finger grip, Viewfinder and Mask.
    Lens:Schneider Apo Digitar 5.6/35mm XL
    Leaf Aptus 75 back with less then 900 actuations.

    AU$32.500 ONO + postage and insurance
    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=25577

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Guy - I have been eying the TC for months now. I just sent you an email message.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    there is a lot to be said for a waist level finder for people shooting, a la Avedon, though I think he used a rollie; a 503/CFV/80mm is a nice package for that
    Last edited by jlm; 11th June 2008 at 16:22.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    I use an Alpa 12WA - because I think the handles are sexy ( and gives you better handholding ability at slower shutter speeds) I am continually amazed at how slow in terms of shutter speed one can go down to and still get super sharp shots. You have no mirror slap - and effectively no sound when you make the shot. My Leica stuff sounds like a rifle shot in comparison!

    The Schneider 35 is pretty good too. Re focus - umm the hyperfocal capability of these lenses is awesome...remember that you are going to shoot between F8-11 to get the most out of the resolving power of the lenses. Look up a DOF table and you will see what I mean. For trick shots I sometimes use the Schneider 24.

    Mated to a high megapixel MFD back - your ability to crop while retaining useful file size is another benefit. Finally - the Alpa looks so retro deluxo and so NOT SLR paparazzi..that people ignore what you are doing apart from inquisitiveness about the sexy machine.

    It is by far and away the most beautiful and perfect system for pure photography - no bells and whistles no auto anything - just your eye. I am now playing with my trusty Alpa and my H3D11-39 back mated to a the Hasselblad hard drive which powers the back ( when off H camera body) not as much of a hassle as I first thought = and loads of storage capability @ 100 gigs of firewire speed.

    A Phase One back works for the Alpa - as battery and storage is in body ( albeit whimpy CFcard capacities which a few hours of walking and shooting means you need lots) the only problem with Phase One back is you need a wake-up cable on the Alpa - no big deal. The Leaf back always bugged me with its battery hanging down blow teh back was inconvenient location for Alpa use - but that is real nitpicking.
    The one limitation of the Alpa for street use is it is really a wide angle shooting device - even a 47mm lens significantly increases difficuty of guesstimating focus.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    I can see how the Alpa would be relatively easy to focus for landscapes, but how would you focus quickly in street scenes and spontaneous people shots? By relying on the focal distance indicator? Seems challenging to say the least.

  24. #24
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Your right i could simply buy the SW I think it is or one of there other Frames let's call it and use the lenses on any of them, so yes there is some advantage there to. Darn stuff is expensive . Okay my little secret thought is not buy that viewfinder at 1200 dollars . But the Hot shoe attachment for around 138 or 160 dollars than revert back to the M8 here and use the externals finders for that , much smaller and you could use a leica 21,24,28 finder or the finder for the Wate lens . Which is the Tri-elmar 16,18,21= WATE or a Zeiss finder my favorite . So you can save a whole bunch of money on just using these finders instead and there much smaller. Now Alpa does seem to sell a plate for the back end. I say seem because not sure if it will fit on your camera plate to protect the back of the lens when the back is on your main body like the Mamiya . The Alpha will accept Phase, Hassy and Contax mount backs . Not sure on Leaf or Sinar though
    Before they only had option to shift, now I hear they are bringing (perhaps they already have) tilt-shift adapter for their Frames/Cameras! So, Big YES at least for me with regards to TC/39mp Leica If you particularly need shift you could go for either of these Frames/Cameras but TC is really small and very convenient entry level + the only small PRO interchangeable walk-around 39mp/etc. Camera

    Again, I have to say the ONLY small PRO interchangeable walk-around camera to let me use ALL or one of these Rollei/Schneider/Carl Zeiss/Hy6 Lenses if my heart beat starts pumping more blood than usual and I don't have to change platforms nor Digital Backs etc. So, YES... I can say I feel more than comfortable with that

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Hmmmmm......very interesting thread.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    My issue with the Alpa is (as I understand it) that is basically just a frame.

    You get no metering and no auto-focus. Your focus is only guess focus based on your range estimate and aperture setting.

    Personally, I still think the Mamiya/Phase P30+ is a more user friendly option that provides a lot more flexability.

    You basically get a camera body & 80 lens with the Phase back for very little money and used Mamiya 45 & 150 lenses are very cheap. This is actually more economical also than the Alpa for this use.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    Again, I have to say the ONLY small PRO interchangeable walk-around camera to let me use ALL or one of these Rollei/Schneider/Carl Zeiss/Hy6 Lenses if my heart beat starts pumping more blood than usual and I don't have to change platforms nor Digital Backs etc. So, YES... I can say I feel more than comfortable with that
    To use the Rollei-mount lenses (Schneider/Zeiss) on an Alpa or view camera, etc.
    a battery-powered Lens Control S (white, pictured at right) is necessary.
    Last edited by BJNY; 11th June 2008 at 17:35.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    there is a lot to be said for a waist level finder for people shooting, a la Avedon, though I think he used a rollie; a 503/CFV/80mm is a nice package for that
    Using a CFV, a 60mm lens would match the FOV of the Rolleiflex TLR's 80mm lens.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I am now playing with my trusty Alpa and my H3D11-39 back mated to a the Hasselblad hard drive which powers the back ( when off H camera body) not as much of a hassle as I first thought = and loads of storage capability @ 100 gigs of firewire speed.
    I'd be willing to put up with an Image Bank if it would have a built-in screen for viewing (like an Epson P-5000).

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    A Phase One back works for the Alpa - as battery and storage is in body ( albeit whimpy CFcard capacities which a few hours of walking and shooting means you need lots).
    How many captures do you expect to make in one outing?

  30. #30
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    I can see how the Alpa would be relatively easy to focus for landscapes, but how would you focus quickly in street scenes and spontaneous people shots? By relying on the focal distance indicator? Seems challenging to say the least.
    That is why I wrote in Mamiya 28mm out for a ride thread I thought I was 100% sharp by trusting the DB screen, later to my surprise I found most images soft.... but what they call "ART Soft" at Paul Kopeikin Gallery etc. Actually all I needed was longer lenses, that way I could establish the feel and the character of what I want! But Hey... first time with ALPA+ 24mm/28mm lenses, 60% of time on my mind was... don't drop the Frame/Camera especially with P45+ not my P30+ back. Even at the beginning with AF On on MF Camera I sometimes get other things I don't need in focus... I am just a little puzzled how long is going to take me to get a feel for guesstimation, but I've seen it in action and people do it casually

    Obviously on tripod it's totally different story

    This is why I asked to encourage ALPA owners... to share their experience/Tips/guesstimation situations/solutions/etc???

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    It would be more useful if Hasselblad could get an Epson P-5000 to act as their Image Bank/viewer/power source.



    How many captures do you expect to make in one outing?

    Re Epson type system - not a bad idea in some way - but I liek teh simplicity of the hardrive too - can view teh files in the big blad LCD screen..
    You know I have never thought about how many shots I expect to make - I am just thankful I am healthy enough to get around and enjoy making them!

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Natasha/ Graham - I can't remember exactly the numbers off the top of my head..however I think my Schneider 35 focuses from .7m to infinity @ F11 - one can improve critical focus by practice combining hyperfocal AND using distance scales.

    Yes a problem is movement when you shoot at low shutter speeds..but often in street movement can be used to advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Natasa Stojsic View Post
    That is why I wrote in Mamiya 28mm out for a ride thread I thought I was 100% sharp by trusting the DB screen, later to my surprise I found most images soft.... but what they call "ART Soft" at Paul Kopeikin Gallery etc. Actually all I needed was longer lenses, that way I could establish the feel and the character of what I want! But Hey... first time with ALPA+ 24mm/28mm lenses, 60% of time on my mind was... don't drop the Frame/Camera especially with P45+ not my P30+ back. Even at the beginning with AF On on MF Camera I sometimes get other things I don't need in focus... I am just a little puzzled how long is going to take me to get a feel for guesstimation, but I've seen it in action and people do it casually

    Obviously on tripod it's totally different story

    This is why I asked to encourage ALPA owners... to share their experience/Tips/guesstimation situations/solutions/etc???

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    This sounds a bit like swimming upstream.
    Street begs for wide angle and big DOF. MF makes this tougher.
    Street should be light and unobtrusive. MF makes this tougher.
    The Alpa looks nifty and given my track record I might own one at least for a little while.
    BUT
    I think that my street camera is my M8.
    -bob

  34. #34
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    This is indeed an interesting thread. I think the Alps is curious, but with no way to properly focus a 35mm focal length equivalent at f/3.5, and with no meter, it doesn't count as a "street shooter".

    Can someone recommend another approach? Autofocus is not a requirement as long as there's some way to focus (rangefinder or SLR).
    -Brad

  35. #35
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    This sounds a bit like swimming upstream.
    Street begs for wide angle and big DOF. MF makes this tougher.
    -bob
    Actually I like the idea of wide angle and narrow DOF, which makes focus more of an issue. I think I'll stick to the SLR for street shooting.

  36. #36
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    To use the Rollei-mount lenses (Schneider/Zeiss) on an Alpa,view camera, etc.
    a battery-powered Lens Control S (white, pictured at right) is necessary.

    Exactly! Even though I have to use only 10% of what is on that picture and only if I want to, NOT BECAUSE I NEED TO!!! Because I don't think all of us are planing to walk-around 100% of our time and use 100% only with Hy6 Schneider/Zeiss Lenses Anyway, even that (battery-powered Lens Control) is up for change!!!

    Perhaps to your surprise..... but I still walk-around with a little tripod, because with MFDBs you are easily reminded when out of focus... especially if you use Manual Focus Lenses often!!!

    Ideally, It should have 300fps, full frame, etc. I am more referring to what is available now at this moment and in the near future and personally I am happy with options not the prices though
    Last edited by Natasa Stojsic; 11th June 2008 at 18:37.

  37. #37
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    My issue with the Alpa is (as I understand it) that is basically just a frame.

    Best,

    Ray

    Like I said before... it looks like a frame for side bed table pictures I couldn't stop laughing

    Friend of mine actually told me that their point was to make a frame like that in relation to less wait and 100% accuracy when the Lens/DB/Accessories are attached!!!

    But still coming from Canon 1Ds MkII/Leica M8 even now PHASE/Mamiya... I can't, I just CAN'T call it Camera However, I understand the concept very well and I feel comfortable

  38. #38
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    A camera is just a dark room with a hole in it.
    The question is how we can reduce the diffraction limitations of that hole and capture the light.
    -bob

  39. #39
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    This sounds a bit like swimming upstream.
    Street begs for wide angle and big DOF.
    -bob
    Not Really!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Street should be light and unobtrusive.
    -bob
    ALPA TC is actually the lightest Digital MF Solution out there with the best Lenses that you can afford to buy!!! This is why I refer to it as TC/39mp Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    MF makes this tougher.
    I agree in terms of focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    The Alpa looks nifty and given my track record I might own one at least for a little while.
    BUT
    I think that my street camera is my M8.
    -bob
    Why not!!!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Well I have the Horseman today and i am guessing at focusing , not any different . I think once you have the feel for were focus is and know what 10 ft , 3ft and such in your head this becomes easier than you think. Now this is not really a street camera only either . This is a 17, 21mm effective 35mm FF marvel at detail and resolution. There is going to be nothing better ever than these digitar lenses folks NOTHING. So there use in many situations can't be overlooked. These lenses will smoke anything near there focal length as nice as the Hassy 28 and Mamiya 28mm maybe this will still kill it with better corners and all that stuff. The beauty of this for me is also a backup , the stuff hits the fan you actually have some sort of backup but more important isit is so small you can carry it in your backpack along with your Mamiya or Hassy body and have some awesome wide angle capability. Tethered is also one way to go for folks also.

    Besides all that it is just pure sexy. Come on admit it .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Re another approach - one can use anything one likes to use. I have shot with Leica M, Canon and Nikon for years. Film & digital - a lot of great street work is also done with Large Format as well as phone cams ...

    there are no rules, magic pills or silver bullets... - the photographer makes his/her own rules use what comes naturally to you.

    Each system delivers something different - and then you can get into the whole discussion about what is 'street' - which is a doom loop anyway LOL

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    - and then you can get into the whole discussion about what is 'street' - which is a doom loop anyway LOL
    aaaahhh yeah there are some lively threads on that topic.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Besides all that it is just pure sexy. Come on admit it .
    Yes, it is! My wife thinks so too, so that's one foot in the door - only problem is that it is a sheer drop on the other side!

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Very interesting discussion here folks. We are thinking outside the box and that is good.The Alpha serves several things like the Horseman and Cambo sliding backs . The one sure thing is you get to use the best lenses ever made for digital. I like my Horseman alot but this also gives me something I did not think about and that is a walk about MF camera.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    I shoot an Alpa 12SWA with a P45+ (and P25 before that). Lenses are Schneider Digitar 35, 47, 80. Regarding focusing, the 35 is easiest with hyperfocal settings on lens (however, you have to adjust for smaller CofC for digital back vs film... DoF scale on lens is calibrated for film. A good DoF calculator with specific setting for P45 back can be found here... http://www.stegmann.dk/mikkel/barnack/). It is hard to miss with 35mm Digitar, given the dof. The 47mm is a bit more demanding, but guesstimating still works well for me. I also use laser range finder, if necessary, to confirm distance guesstimates for 47mm. Regarding 80mm, I use gg back to focus or a Hasselblad right angle finder that can be mounted via Alpa V-mount adapter. After focusing 80mm, I attach the digital back and shoot. I also generally shoot 80mm on tripod.

    I agree with comments about the quality of these lenses... they are superb. Also agree with the comments about hand-holdable nature of Alpa and silent operation, Alpa/Digitar is quieter than M4 or 6... M8 is like a rifle shot, in comparison. Regarding the need for wake-up signal for Phase backs, Capture integration has a great wake-up cable that is relatively inexpensive (see"Primary Synch Wake-up Cable: http://www.captureintegration.com/ph...stom-products/). Alpa also makes a special wake-up handle for Phase backs, but it is expensive.

    Another plus for Alpa, based on my personal experience, is that the owners are the extremely responsive in answering questions, discussing issues, etc. Send them an e-mail, and they will respond quickly; I've even had an on-going e-mail exchange with them at 8-9PM Switzerland time (their home time zone). I haven't experienced that level of responsiveness with any other camera support sites.

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Brad i am working on this right NOW . LOL

    I came up with a neat idea that already exists but with a few modifications to save money and come up with a P&S MF back. I'm probably going to sell my Horseman sliding back with finder and get this Alpa 12 TC idea instead. Getting prices now

    I just don't do a lot of stitching and shifting so this makes better sense for me because I like to shoot street
    Brad - I'm a great advocate of using equipment for other than its intended purpose - I've been using an M8 as an MF for a year plus by stitching. The light weight and mobility are fabulous. On the subject of using MF for street my limited experience, however, suggests some caution - you might consider renting or borrowing first. Here are the issues:

    1. Camera choice - I agree with Guy that the Alpa 12 TC is the better choice than the Horseman in this application, but you won't be getting a two for one (if you're interested in view camera movements) because the Alpa has very limited movements. Its advantage is that it's more compact and lighter.

    2. Lens choice. You have to go wide here because you'll be using zone focus or hyperfocus - you'll need all of the depth of field you can get. Wide works for my shooting style so I tried doing a hand-held walk around with my Horseman, a 35mm Rodenstock Digitar and a Hasselblad 39 back. I practiced with rocks, trees, furniture, pictures and other inanimate objects, as well as my long-suffering wife, to try to get a sense of how the combination works. I decided not to tackle the streets of New York with this unfamiliar combination.

    3. Color shift. As a result of 2 (shooting with a wide) you need to deal with color shift. I found that a single reference "flat frame" shot at the beginning of the session did the trick. Of course this doesn't matter if you're shooting for B&W.

    4. Depth of field. This is the key issue. Sean Reid has done a great job of educating us to the fact that small sensor cameras have greater depth of field than you would expect. The converse is also true: large sensor cameras have less depth of field than you would expect - in the case of the H 39 back, much less.

    5. Limited f stop selection. One of the consequences of item 4 is that you probably can't consistently shoot faster than f8 or f11: depth of field is just too narrow to deal with close and moving objects. On the other hand you can't really stop down to f16 or a higher numbers to help on the focus issue because the effect of diffraction degrading sharpness becomes very obvious - at large f numbers the back provides dramatically better resolution than the lens can deliver. The Rodenstock's sweet spot appears to be about f8.

    6. Focus. As a result 4 and 5 focus is hit or miss. Try this yourself: put your widest lens on your MF, set it at f8 and manual focus and exposure, lock the mirror up and walk around shooting every-day objects based on zone focusing. Most of my shots were at least somewhat out of focus. You can probably do better.

    7. Poor low light ability. Because of item 5 above you can't open beyond f8 and my back limits me to ISO 400. This means that in an urban setting even in daylight you will have situations that require hand-holding at very slow shutter speeds.

    8. Exposure. In general I used a rule of thumb to get close on exposure, or an incident light meter for tough situations, took an exposure, waited 750 milliseconds for the buffer to clear, read the histogram, made an adjustment and then fired a second, real shot. Not the best way of going about "decisive moment" street photography. The alternative is to set the camera up to expose for the average lighting in your situation, leaving some headroom against overexposure, and correct on post processing. Of course with most of these backs to the extent that you try to dig shadow detail out of underexposed files IQ suffers badly.

    My bottom line is that I might be able to make this work if I spent a lot of time practicing on focus and worked to bring back my exposure "guestimate" skills from my M3 days. There is someone out there who is doing this (there was a reference to the body of work on this board but I can't find it - sc John may be able to point us to it) but only, I am certain, after a long and focused effort to master it and using it for a look that doesn't depend on razor sharp focus and the resulting three-dimensionality for its impact.

    I'm in awe of those who are making this work - for now I'm sticking to using the Horseman as a "view camera" (it excels at this) and an M8 for walk around street stuff.

    PS - if you're interested in shifting to make panoramas or parallel vertical lines buy Guy's Horseman!
    Last edited by Woody Campbell; 11th June 2008 at 19:32.

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Well said folks . i think one way to look at all this and how i am viewing it mostly is the use of these optics, they are the best around and now that I have the Horseman and 35mm digitar i want to use it to my benefit. I think we should look at these lenses in a special way is how can we use them to there advantage after 35mm going down with the Hassy 28 and Maiya 28mm it gets sketchy. Those 28mm lenses are also 4k plus and there very good but there not like a Schnieder or Rodenstock 28mm either. So if you are demanding the best quality in the wide world these are hard to ignore. As a street camera not sure i would only buy it for that the M8 would prove to be a better tool but if you need to shoot wide in MF these will do that in spades but you can certainly use it for other things as well. Maybe not the easiest task but if you can judge distance well than a lot easier . I am going to play tomorrow with the Horseman since my lens returned yesterday from being lose in the mount. Now i have to see how good they really are.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    I posted a blog article about this very topic a couple of months ago. I took the tongue-in-cheek approach using this gear to defend the relatively low cost of Leica M equipment to non-believers. Good for a laugh I suppose. Here is the link.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    Woody, thanks for the excellent information!!!
    -Brad

  50. #50
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: MF street shooter pack?

    PeterA, sc_john, Woody Campbell, thanks to all.... very good info


    Just to make sure... when I talk about ALPA, I generally think about the Family
    of ALPA Frames/Cameras/convenience/compatibility/options/etc!!!

    I can't blame my pockets because of their prices Woody,verify and please correct me if I'm wrong, but ALPA XY has more movement than any Horseman Camera.... Therefore, most photographers say ALPA XY is overkill more than they need..... and this is why ALPA is bringing BABY XY plus Tilt & Shift Adapter!!!

    In that respect I think ALPA is very casual(street) & very serious(field/etc.) system, OK! Guy and PeterA... Sexy too!!!


    As I understand your optimum sharpness was at f8 on 39mp, I was using Phase 39p P45+ and according to my test, optimum sharpness on 24mm was f5.6. So, I am not entirely sure about the best formula yet.... but as soon as I get the Camera with your help and the help of others.... I'm sure all of us together will do more than fine

    With regards to ISO, I can go higher even though I don't usually go very often over ISO400

    Guy - I was looking at the Linhof Mulit F. Viewfinder for longer lenses but that too is expensive So your idea could do the trick, perhaps not for the longer lenses but still good enough for start

    sc_john - With regards to gg back to focus and Hasselblad right angle finder that can be mounted via ALPA V-mount adapter! That's very good to know, because I am always thinking, image.....image....image.... but lately it's more convenience..... convenience...... convenience..... my options...... my options...... my options........!!!

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