New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

[fotografz]

What's it like in the commercial world these days though Marc? All I hear about is from my local pro stores in the UK saying that yet another high end studio just went belly up because their clients just took the work in house or pro's saying that they're working 5 times as hard for the same or less pay

It's not a hugely encouraging world out there but I'm not in the market, what's your take on it?

Generally, compared to years past, it isn't good in any category in any market as far as I know. Obviously print media is evaporating, so not many ads ... but you go to the news-stands and there are a million different magazines still there. :wtf: Same with mail stuff ... my poor mailbox is stuffed with print media everyday. Somebody's shooting all that stuff... even if it is in-house.

Locally in Detroit, a bunch of glitzy car studios went belly-up because of shifting media, reduced budgets, and more CGI work. Yet other places are working 24/7 and expanding like crazy. My pal used to work with one assistant, now he has 6 full time shooters and 2 part time doing all kinds of work including a giant supermarket chain that buys high-end food shots from him, and he built a state-of-the-art studio at least 3X the size of his other one.

So, it depends on who you ask I guess ... and I think it is picking up again a bit.

-Marc

 

[FredBGG]

I have a friend that was the financial analyst for an online publishing outfit..... his pay was quite good, but he was just hired by a larger paper based publisher. The paid his relocation, great benefits and significant salary increase.

This whole thing about print evaporating is a bit of a myth. For certain trade magazines yes, but late last year for example Elle set its record for it's biggest issue. Online iPad versions of the magazines pretty much have to be given away free to print subscribers.

 

[Steven]

Mario,

I wanted to thank you for starting this thread. I registered just to say how helpful it has been, because I am in a very similar situation to you. Like you, I shoot mostly seniors and I try keep the experience more personal...develop more of a relationship, if you will.

I also shoot a few weddings, a little commercial work and the occasional family pic, that usually sprang from working with seniors. My senior work and my Miss Louisiana work has been what raised my profile locally, to the point where I find it really strange (but wonderful) that people know who I am. I'm hardly famous, mind you, but God has certainly blessed me in/through my business!

I've been told repeatedly that my style stands out from a lot of the photographers who are always popping up in this area all the time. I suppose it's because I tend to put a little bit more of a fashion spin on it then most...at least i try to anyway I've been blessed in this because most of my seniors moms end up loving the same things that they do.

Like you, Mario, I'm at the beginning of evaluating whether or not MFD is a road I want to travel down...well, let me rephrase that...

I'm trying to evaluate if MFD is a road I NEED/SHOULD travel down...I really WANT to

I have even contacted Digital Transitions to get some (very) preliminary info on the matter, but I haven't gotten to the rent/demo phase, yet.

So I can't give you any first hand advice, but I think I identify with your struggle...

I look at a lot of my work that I've done and I'm pretty sure I would have had a really hard time capturing some of it in MFD (I base that on my time in college that I shot on a Contax 645 with film)...spontaneous stuff that just happened...

My 1Ds2 has been an amazing tool and I've really ENJOYED it too!

That said, there's a part of me that's craving MORE in certain situations and I miss that more deliberate workflow that MF demands. Plus, I can imagine a lot of the things I've done being greatly enhanced by MFD.

I am making all sorts of quasi-rational arguments FOR getting something that will allow for lots of cropping...

Times when clients told me that they want these beauty shots REALLY TIGHT so they can see all the detail of the products and the application...then we hear later that they didn't have enough white space around the heads for layouts like they want a nice big back sounds like a nice answer to that, right? right? Shoot for white space, then let them figure out how tight they want it later

Another instance that I often think of, is when I'm shooting seniors full length in the studio, since this is usually their first time doing anything like this, they (naturally) aren't the most accomplished models and they suddenly have a WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL facial expression...but they've got a not-so-great pose going on. The question is then raised about cropping and I have to tell them that I can't really do what they want on that one. I could see a big, back being nice in that situation.

I would love to work with the high sync speed of some of the leaf shutter systems. I've never done that, but I could see over powering the sun as a useful tool in my belt, since again, my clients have been more receptive to the slight tilt towards fashion in my experience.

I also know that I could never ditch the my DSLR. It's too versatile.

If I had, basically, unlimited funds, I would run a phaseone 645DF/IQ180 (or maybe a Hassy bc of the true focus) AND probably pick up something like the canon 1DX.

Ironically it was my disappointment over a lot of the features announced in the 1DX that really started prodding me in this direction (speed and video over higher resolution...though I realize there are many legit arguments over cramming more pixels into a sensor, that size). It just made me realize how much i wanted higher image quality for a lot of situations. And not that I am set on NOT getting a 1DX, but it just seems like a tool that's not directed towards me, as I would like...not that I couldn't make excellent use of it...it just didn't get me EXCITED...not for what I do anyways.

There's that whole passion, thing, rearing its ugly head!

MFD seems aimed right at me, for a lot (not all) of the stuff I am passionate about.

But that leads to the heart of the matter. The biggest problem with MFD is the price. It would be a tremendous burden for me to take on that cost. With that burden also comes the risk of getting into financial trouble. Would the upside of the higher quality, be worth it?

I mean REALLY worth it?

Here's an answer it's hard for ME to get past...

I have been blessed to get to this point that I'm at right now WITH THE EXACT SAME EQUIPMENT I've had since I started my business.

Is that your situation, Mario?

Of course, as others have pointed out, MFD has opened up NEW avenues for several people on here. It might be the same for me. It might be the same for you. If we knew the future, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now would we?

For me, MFD right now is waaaay more of a WANT than a NEED. I have convinced myself that they are really good and genuine and somewhat rational WANTS , the problem is that there is very little NEED in the equation for me (at least not that I can put a number on), because I just don't how much MY clients would be aware of it or how quickly it would pay for itself. Heck, their jaws drop when they ask how much my camera costs now. I could literally imagine them stroking out if they asked me about my dream setup! But beyond the shock and possible extra glow that would surround me bc of my uber-pricey gear, would it really raise my bottom line?

I don't know. But that's one of the reasons I'm here and sooo glad you started this thread, Mario.

BTW, quick questions, Mario...do you shoot anything in studio?

 

[Mario]

So I met with the Phase rep tonight... got a chance to check out some stuff. The aesthetics and ergonomics of the 645DF are quite a bit better IMO. The IQ backs are simply stunning (although I'd most likely start with a P series). I really like that Phase has the 55 2,8 and I hear it's fantastic. I got to fumble with the 110 2,8 a little and really liked what I saw. The low light potential with Sensor + was super appealing to me. The 645DF felt like it was quicker on the AF.

The rep is going to let me borrow his personal rig for a few days and setup an official demo with a IQ140 / P40+, 645DF, and 55 / 110.

The setup that's somewhat in my range would be the 645DF, P40+, and 110 2,8 (just under 20) It's tough because there's the H4D-31 for $14k which is a much easier initial investment. I would really love forum input on what my used options and price range would be for a similar setup. I've read that the P25+ is quite the back as well. I'm personally not chasing megapixels here so I like the idea of a 20-40MP rig.

 

[David Schneider]

The setup that's somewhat in my range would be the 645DF, P40+, and 110 2,8 (just under 20) It's tough because there's the H4D-31 for $14k which is a much easier initial investment. I would really love forum input on what my used options and price range would be for a similar setup.

Mario,

Here's my input. I think if you ask just about any professional photographer who's main market is people, you'll find the lens they use the most (and possibly their favorite lens) is either a 150 or a 210. To not factor a true portrait lens (no matter what you can do with the 100mm) into your purchase to me is a big, big mistake.

I purchase a lovely used Hassie H3d2-39 with a 35, 100, 150, 210. I went a few months before I even took out the 210. I love, love, love the 150. I probably use it more than any other lens for a single subject in the studio. But I'm using the 210 more and more. At 7 feet, 210mm lens, f-11, the dof is just 3.3" so focus is critical, but results can be fun.

 

[Mario]

Mario,

Here's my input. I think if you ask just about any professional photographer who's main market is people, you'll find the lens they use the most (and possibly their favorite lens) is either a 150 or a 210. To not factor a true portrait lens (no matter what you can do with the 100mm) into your purchase to me is a big, big mistake.

I purchase a lovely used Hassie H3d2-39 with a 35, 100, 150, 210. I went a few months before I even took out the 210. I love, love, love the 150. I probably use it more than any other lens for a single subject in the studio. But I'm using the 210 more and more. At 7 feet, 210mm lens, f-11, the dof is just 3.3" so focus is critical, but results can be fun.

I finally hit 10 posts so my replies are instant. Yay!

Right on and I can appreciate that. There's no doubt a longer lens is essential and useful. But I'm not here to follow what every portrait shooter does either. I find the compression of longer lenses to be quite boring, systematic, and repetitive. The Canon 35/50 have a very cinematic 3D feel to them that I absolutely adore (which is what has immediately drawn me to the 55 and 110 lengths on a MDF). If there are samples, observations, etc. that demonstrate otherwise on any of the listed thoughts I'm all eyes of course as I'm doing research into new systems.

 

[David Schneider]

Mario,

My experience is many times you have to do what the client wants or will purchase rather than what you want to do, cinematic feel not withstanding. Sometimes you have to do what pays the bills. The longer lens can give you the option. Of course, it depends on you clients. I can tell you that my seniors would say your first image in post #45 makes the girl's head look too big in proportion to her body. On the other hand, if you used that same lens close to the ground with a 4'1" girl standing they'd love it because her legs would look longer and wouldn't care that her head might be out of proportionately small. Again, I know my market and you know yours and what will work best. I'm suggesting you get a longer lens; one of your subjects' mom/dad wants you to do headshots of their 12 lawyers or 18 real estate agents you'll pull that long lens out and smile.

Good that you're doing your research. It's very important.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I shoot the 110 LS just about on every shot doing these models from very tight headshots even cutting off there hair to full length. I let my feet do the walking. It's a fabulous lens. The p40 I can't recommend enough I had it almost 2 years. Remember I shoot almost everything. The 55 is also a very well used lens on many things. Maybe try looking up my images in the Gallery for some samples. There is a lot.

The P40 you can get at a very good price used through our dealers here, if you need help figuring out a Phase system just let me know you certainly won't be the first . Lol

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hope this works but every shot of these models is with a 110mm and IQ 160 full frame back handheld

Cf005158 - GetDPI Image Gallery

 

[Guy Mancuso]

P40 and the 150 d lens

Model Test - GetDPI Image Gallery

 

[Paratom]

I finally hit 10 posts so my replies are instant. Yay!

Right on and I can appreciate that. There's no doubt a longer lens is essential and useful. But I'm not here to follow what every portrait shooter does either. I find the compression of longer lenses to be quite boring, systematic, and repetitive. The Canon 35/50 have a very cinematic 3D feel to them that I absolutely adore (which is what has immediately drawn me to the 55 and 110 lengths on a MDF). If there are samples, observations, etc. that demonstrate otherwise on any of the listed thoughts I'm all eyes of course as I'm doing research into new systems.

I am not a pro but I feel the same about focal length. For example with the Leica M I use 50 and 75 much more often than 90mm or 135mm and do like that more dynamic look.
Same for the S2 as much as I love the 120 and 180 I do a lot with 70mm.
of course I dont have to fulfil customers wishes but just do what I like.

 

[andrew wuttke]

HI Mario

i dont generally post alot here but here's my 2 cents .... i use the H4D-31 and totally love it, i shoot studio teathered - product and people, architecture, pr, fashion ... a bit of every thing. My reasons for going with the H4D were , single battery much easier when you are out and about, true focus (awesome) and fast sync speed (pre mamiya leaf lenses) It seems everyone has an opinion about this topic in fact a lot of opinions .. anyway i shoot with the hasselblad 3-4 jobs a week (the rest on canon) and its just a lovely easy workhorse camera

good luck

andrew

[email protected]
Photographer Melbourne | Wuttke Photography - Fashion | Food | Portrait | Architecture | Interiors | Product Photography

 

[Mario]

Mario,

My experience is many times you have to do what the client wants or will purchase rather than what you want to do, cinematic feel not withstanding. Sometimes you have to do what pays the bills. The longer lens can give you the option. Of course, it depends on you clients. I can tell you that my seniors would say your first image in post #45 makes the girl's head look too big in proportion to her body. On the other hand, if you used that same lens close to the ground with a 4'1" girl standing they'd love it because her legs would look longer and wouldn't care that her head might be out of proportionately small. Again, I know my market and you know yours and what will work best. I'm suggesting you get a longer lens; one of your subjects' mom/dad wants you to do headshots of their 12 lawyers or 18 real estate agents you'll pull that long lens out and smile.

Good that you're doing your research. It's very important.

Absolutely man, there's no question about fulfilling clients needs (this is my 3rd year fulltime so I'm quickly becoming accustomed to the process). On the flipside, I think we can both agree that showing what you shoot and shooting what you show is the bigger win here. I will never book a corporate headshoot, or a wedding, or a family because I've curated my portfolio to help predetermine my client and client type. :thumbs:

 

[Mario]

Hope this works but every shot of these models is with a 110mm and IQ 160 full frame back handheld

Cf005158 - GetDPI Image Gallery

Some lovely images mate. That 110 really does look worlds more dynamic than the 80.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Here IQ 160 on sensor plus which is 15mpx on my back. P40 it is 10mpx but don't be fooled by the number it's much better than advertised . This is ISO 200 with a 110mm and i still have room to move in . I just finished airbrushing this wanna be model. LOL

 

[David Schneider]

Absolutely man, there's no question about fulfilling clients needs (this is my 3rd year fulltime so I'm quickly becoming accustomed to the process). On the flipside, I think we can both agree that showing what you shoot and shooting what you show is the bigger win here. I will never book a corporate headshoot, or a wedding, or a family because I've curated my portfolio to help predetermine my client and client type. :thumbs:

Mario,

I'm just saying that sometimes unexpected things come up and then you need the right tool for the job. This maybe an extreme example, but I had to photograph an open casket funeral service last year. Turns out 500-600 people showed up and what was suppose to be a 3 hr shoot went over 5 hrs. (We had to do video too.) And I using dslr, I used 17mm to 300mm. My point is I don't show funerals, but it was a nice pay day on a slow day of the week.

 

[Mario]

My point is I don't show funerals, but it was a nice pay day on a slow day of the week.

No argument there and I agree 100%.

 

[Valentin]

In terms of lenses, I think 210 is a little bit too long at times (plus keep in mind the crop factor on some of the backs). For me, 110-150 is a very good range.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Agree the 210 just gets a little to thin on DOF even the 150 can be tough when you really tight on a face but it's a brilliant lens the 150 D and maybe to damn sharp for headshots. The 110 just has a great look to it.

 

[coz]

Mario, sorry if I missed it on this thread but are you considering the S2 at all? I'm thinking about it vs the IQ140.