Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

[Aryan Aqajani]

This question prompted me to dig out an old 45 C, as I'm going to be without a tech cam for a while, I'm presently doing a focus stack of my living room using it on the DF. Obviously it's not as good as the tech cam, my personal question is, is it workable at all if I need it.

I set myself the challenge of objects from 1m to 5m. I found at f11 the image was pretty soft and could not get near or far even close to being called in-focus, so opted for f5.6 and stacking the images.

Initially it looks like the right hand side might have some alignment problem. Will let you know the results.

Conclusion is very good, usable but a lot fringing. Stacking using jpegs was a bit rough. Considering it's a C lens it's quite surprising. Definitely usable as an interim measure for me. 45 is a bit tight indoors though.

Thanks for sharing your findings! It is good to know how those old lenses perform with a digital back! I have been using a Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 N with my DM22 back for portraits! So far, very happy with it However, wide angle lenses are a bit different! That makes it hard to make a decision!

 

[Shashin]

If you are doing single shots, go with the wider. Inside you cannot always step back far enough--why do rooms always have four walls. 25mm equivalent is actually good for interiors as I find even 28mm tight.

As far as the minimum aperture, I would up to f/16 without hesitation. Having the DoF you need will always produce a sharper image than what the effects of diffraction can do--shoot a few frames wider if you like, but f/16 will be really nice. Personally, I would even go to f/22 in some cases and the results will still be great for your clients--unsharp masking is your friend here. Your clients don't care about pixel peeping and your format will work really well at f/16-f/22. (f/8-f/11 will not have the DoF for this work. You can also looking into focus stacking and you could shoot a stack as an option.)

If you are still determined about the 45mm, you can stitch two or three frames and shoot the camera vertical. I am not really into lots of stitching for architecture. You will need a nodal slide for interiors, which can easily be done, but it is just another layer. Then you have to account for the projection in the stitch and sometimes that is hard to judge. At this stage I would go for single frames and might try a few shots for a stitch just for the experience, but I would not count on them.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Here some images P25 plus phase 28mm no focus stacking.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

All shot at F11. All images shot at level. Adjusted height of tripod to accomplish framing. No pointing. Now I would have killed for a tech cam here. But with care you have workarounds.

 

[wentbackward]

Is that the 35 guy? One floor of our house would fit in that lounge and we're quite fortunate to have so much room! I should've added, 45 is a bit tight in hong kong!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

All shot with the Phase 28mm on a slightly cropped P25+. Which helps on corners but I have not found a 35mm lens this good in the corners. I almost prefer the 28mm than cropping it. This is exact reason I have a tech cam it's the wides.

 

[Aryan Aqajani]

Guy,

I have already seen those photos and that is why I hired Phase One 28mm for my first job almost a month ago :salute: Here is one of the shots I did at f/11 with DM22 back:

If I finally decide to a get a wide lens for my 645 system, I'd go with 35mm AF since 28mm costs around a tech system

I am thinking about getting a tech camera a bit deeper as I'd love to explore this area further and hopefully make it a major part of my carrier! However, I should do more research about carrier potentials at this stage!

Can you guys shed more light on differences between Cambo Wide DS and RS also Alpa MaX 12? Which ones are more versatile and efficient in architecture photography? Any advantages with shift/weight or ease of use with DM22 back?

Thanks once again

 

[MaxKißler]

Hey Aryan,

I'd suggest you get the 35mm. The DM22 has rather large pixels thus making it quite forgiving in the corners and in regard of diffraction. If you find out that it is not enough you could also try f-stop stacking which should improve corner sharpness aswell.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

You also have options in C1 to sharpen just the corners in there lens correction tab. You can also be lens specific and correct the slight distortion in the 35. I used this feature on my 28mm lens shots above. That's the distortion feature which works fairly nicely.

The Cambo WRS and Max essential have the same features. I can't speak of the Max since I never used it , maybe a member can help here that knows it well. But the WRS all of the movements are on the back standard Rise/fall and shift for instance. Tilt and Swing are in the lens in a special mount. You can buy most lenses either way.

The Cambo DS the rise and fall are on the front standard, this is a older generation body that was for film back in the day. It's bigger than the WRS and again I have not shot this body either so maybe some help to explain it better. Out of the three it is the lower priced one than the WRS and Max being the most expensive.

 

[Aryan Aqajani]

:thumbup:Thank you so much guys, appreciate it again

Guy, I tried to find more details about Cambo W-RS on Cambo website. It seems that it is a very versatile body with moderate size and weight which is very important for me as I take my RZ67 with me most of the time! I also noticed that I can use my iPhone 4 as a viewfinder which is a very cool concept however, not too sure how accurate it is! The ablity to add tilt/shift lenses to the system is amazing :thumbs: Can I add a 6x7 film back to it as well?

My local Phase One dealer currently has a demo condition Cambo W-RS (all black body with box) for AUS $2200 and a used Schneider Apo-Digitar 24mm XL f5.6 for AUS $2500! Do you think the price is right?

Thanks heaps

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The iPhone is prett darn accurate and new software is coming from a member. But no those prices sound pretty good. The 24 will work fine on your sensor. You get into the FF sensors you will probably have magenta cast issues but on your 22 no issues at all and it is a very sharp lens too. You may try and get a little break but hard for me to compare pricing down under to our pricing. But usually you folks pay dearly for gear.

In all honesty I think this is the probably the best option to have is a tech cam. It's a perfect solution to doing arch. work. You want rise and fall and keeping your cam level no matter what height you like low or high than just rise and fall for framing. Now it's a little more work as you need to do LCC on at least your final image but your not running around anyway. Takes a minute or so. Make sure you get sync cables from your back to lens and cable release your dealer should have all that on hand for you. If you can get a center filter than not a bad idea as well they are about 300 dollars.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think you can add a film back. We have to look into that for sure.

 

[kdphotography]

I think you can add a film back. We have to look into that for sure.

WRS-1068 adapter plate for the Cambo, uses the Mamiya RB filmback. And for whatever reason, Guy, Cambo says it can't be used with the AE version. Hey, wanna trade your AE for my plebian WRS1050? :ROTFL:

 

[GrahamWelland]

The 24 will work fine on your sensor. You get into the FF sensors you will probably have magenta cast issues but on your 22 no issues at all and it is a very sharp lens too. .

The 24XL is an excellent very sharp lens for the non-FF sensors. You absolutely will want the center filter for it though and you have to understand that there will be basically no or at best minimal movements available even with the DM22. However, with is lens you've got so much coverage that you can generally afford to crop if necessary.

The 36x48mm of the DM22 will just be inside the image circle of this lens. I sold mine when I moved from my P40+/Aptus 65 33x44mm sensors to the IQ160 because the lens was not able to fully cover the sensor and the color cast/vignette was severe. For a crop sensor though it is excellent.

Be aware also about the storage instructions for this lens too - it's recommended to always store it with the helicoid at infinity - on the Alpa at least.

The 24XL was a great lens that I wish I could have kept using ... Oh the woes of full sized MF sensors!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No . Absolutely no interest in film this old dog has moved forward. Lol

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The 24XL is an excellent very sharp lens for the non-FF sensors. You absolutely will want the center filter for it though and you have to understand that there will be basically no or at best minimal movements available even with the DM22. However, with is lens you've got so much coverage that you can generally afford to crop if necessary.

The 36x48mm of the DM22 will just be inside the image circle of this lens. I sold mine when I moved from my P40+/Aptus 65 33x44mm sensors to the IQ160 because the lens was not able to fully cover the sensor and the color cast/vignette was severe. For a crop sensor though it is excellent.

Be aware also about the storage instructions for this lens too - it's recommended to always store it with the helicoid at infinity - on the Alpa at least.

The 24XL was a great lens that I wish I could have kept using ... Oh the woes of full sized MF sensors!

Heck I thought about it too since I dropped back down to a crop sensor. I'm thinking you should get 5 mm rise fall?

 

[GrahamWelland]

With the IQ140 you'll have some rise/fall that's for sure. Not a lot, but a bit - just checked and it's about 2-3mm since you have a 55mm diagonal for the IQ140 and 60mm image circle on the lens. Nice lens - you've shot I know so you also know to get the CF.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yea the CF is a must have . Adorama carried them at one time for like 285.00

 

[Aryan Aqajani]

A bit confused now guys :loco:

Melbourne Phase One dealer has Cambo WRS-1000! So, if I get that one with DM22 back, you are saying there would be very minimal rise and fall shift with 24mm XL lens? Can you please tell me what the equivalent if 24mm XL lens is in 35mm format? 17mm?

And if I want to have full movement, should get the 28 or 35 XL?

Cheers,

 

[wentbackward]

The 24 only has a manufacturer specified 60mm image circle. I think your sensor has a diagonal of 60mm. There would probably be NO shifts and some risk that the 24 does not work very well even unshifted.

The diagonal of small format is 43.27 60/43.27 is about 1.38 times so 24/1.38 = 17.4mm appx.

The Rodie 28 has a 70mm image circle so as a straight shot would be 28/1.38 = 20mm appx. With stitching it would be (factor = 70/43.27 = 1.62) 28/1.62 = 17.2mm.

One thing I'm unsure if this is correct: sensor diagonal of 60mm and circle of 70mm you should have 10mm of h or v shift, so 10mm of rise if you're trying to straighten the verticals is OK, but not great.

If the sunspots are up and the wind is in the right direction, I might have even got the calcs right, I would double check though. To look these up I used Paula's lens pages and the Alpa_CFL_CALC spreadsheet from the tools secion on their website.