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Thread: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

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    Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    According to "Red Dot" Leica S007 has now been released...

    Leica S (Typ 007) Starts Shipping with Lower Price of $16,900 | Red Dot Forum

    Other than the price being reduced to less than 70% of the originally suggested one, there are also two spec changes... DR is claimed to be an enormous 15 stops (!) range and ISO range has been expanded both sides from 100 up to 12800 ISO (Originally 200-6400)... It seems that Sony MF sensor now has some very serious competition.
    Last edited by T.Dascalos; 25th August 2015 at 15:13. Reason: link seems not to appear

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    I'm waiting for the objective reviews. I'd love to consider the idea of the S system being the dynamic range monster but I've waited long enough for this system to achieve its potential. This isn't Troll speak as I was one of the first to invest in the COMPLETE system and needed to move on because of delayed firmware fixes and legacy features.

    The lenses are great but the body is lagging behind the industry.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Has diglloyd found a fundamentally bad aspect to the camera or obscure earth shattering fault yet? I'm waiting to hear ... He'll find something I'm sure.

    Just kidding of course!

    I used the predecessor on a few occasions and really loved the system but I'm too invested in Phase One glass to change the MF DSLR side of my gear.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I used the predecessor on a few occasions and really loved the system but I'm too invested in Phase One glass to change the MF DSLR side of my gear.
    First Don Libby stops buying a lens, now Graham doesn't want more gear. Has the world gone mad?
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    First Don Libby stops buying a lens, now Graham doesn't want more gear. Has the world gone mad?
    Who said that I don't want more gear? Now that would be heresy!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    DR is claimed to be an enormous 15 stops (!) range
    To be taken with some grains of salt here, Michael on LuLa has already tested this camera against the 645Z and A7RII and found that it's behind the other two in noise at ISO3200, and looking at the crops I agree, albeit it's early-release firmware and no official LR support.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    To be taken with some grains of salt here, Michael on LuLa has already tested this camera against the 645Z and A7RII and found that it's behind the other two in noise at ISO3200, and looking at the crops I agree, albeit it's early-release firmware and no official LR support.
    I think even with Firmware upgrade, it wills till lack behind. The only 2 thingsthat I think still works for S, are the lens system and ergonomics.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    To be taken with some grains of salt here, Michael on LuLa has already tested this camera against the 645Z and A7RII and found that it's behind the other two in noise at ISO3200, and looking at the crops I agree, albeit it's early-release firmware and no official LR support.
    I think the conclusion is more believable:

    from LuLa

    For the pro or wealthy enthusiast with an appreciation for the Leica ethos, the S(007) will be eagerly received. For others, a visit to a Leica store or retailer will pay off with an opportunity to see this company’s new state-of-the-art medium format offering and to draw own conclusions.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by kimyeesan View Post
    I think even with Firmware upgrade, it wills till lack behind. The only 2 thingsthat I think still works for S, are the lens system and ergonomics.
    Michael also states in his review that "this is not a final review but rather a pre-review" and that he "expects when LR will have S007 profile, the files to cover the distance from Sony MF sensor or the A7Rii sensor"...

    I expect that when LR will "recognize" S007 performance, it will prove even better than the most modern of sensors, but given that the two sensors that Michael used against the S007 are currently considered as being the very best around (Sony's MF sensor is widely accepted as being the better out of the best) and that the difference he found (without proper software used for the S007) where "pretty close", the S007 certainly bears one of the best sensors around...
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Michael also states in his review that "this is not a final review but rather a pre-review" and that he "expects when LR will have S007 profile, the files to cover the distance from Sony MF sensor or the A7Rii sensor"...

    I expect that when LR will "recognize" S007 performance, it will prove even better than the most modern of sensors, but given that the two sensors that Michael used against the S007 are currently considered as being the very best around (Sony's MF sensor is widely accepted as being the better out of the best) and that the difference he found (without proper software used for the S007) where "pretty close", the S007 certainly bears one of the best sensors around...
    Well, Michael is a photographer, not an engineer. Given the pixel pitch of the S 007, you would expect it to be doing a bit better in regards to noise.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    DR is claimed to be an enormous 15 stops (!) range
    Leica states it is "up to 15 f-stops," which is an odd claim from a manufacturer. I am sure it will be a fine camera, I think we might want to temper the enthusiasm about performance until more is known. But I would not be buying this based on specs.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    This might solve the 15 stop DR claim. From DPreview:

    Possibly the most significant feature of the new sensor is the quoted 15-stop dynamic range. Leica claims there has been no demand from its S camera users for greater resolution, but the increase from 13-stops of DR in the Type 006 to 15 stops will have a definite impact on the way images look. The DNG Raw files are recorded in 14bit with some interpolation applied to produce the quoted figures.
    It will be interesting to see how close to 14-bit the DR can actually get to.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    It is interesting to see that here in Europe, the James-Bond S is ~2k Euros cheaper than its predecessor (18k vs 20k). Even the S-E is now around 15k.
    I suspect we will see the prices of used S2s, and 006s go down quite significantly... Prepare your wallets :-)

    I find it also interesting that Leica still sells new 006s, "for the CCD look" and probably to clear inventory. What their price is now is unknown.

    And a first preview:

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/214...mos-s-type-007

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    The Leica S 007 looks like an awesome alternative in MFD. The lenses are superb and you can use Hasselblad H and Contax 645 with a Leica factory adapter and have full AF and exposure functions. Leica also offers adapters for Hasselblad V, Pentax 67 and Mamiya 645 (phase) but without any electronic (or mech) control.

    The sensor looks to be VERY competitive and the body is a cut above anything else on the market (integrated DSLR body). Would I choose this over an XF? For location work and Travel most likely yes. But the PhaseOne XF is a much more versatile (modular) system albeit much more expensive.

    Kudos to Leica for lowering the price.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    It is interesting to see that here in Europe, the James-Bond S is ~2k Euros cheaper than its predecessor (18k vs 20k). Even the S-E is now around 15k.
    I suspect we will see the prices of used S2s, and 006s go down quite significantly... Prepare your wallets :-)

    I find it also interesting that Leica still sells new 006s, "for the CCD look" and probably to clear inventory. What their price is now is unknown.

    And a first preview:

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/214...mos-s-type-007
    Speaking for lens compatibility, I believe this camera will be extremely successful among the (large number) of wedding photographers that are using Contax 645 with film (and some that use old Hasselblad H)... I believe it will allow them to get rid of the DSLRs they use alongside their Contax system and thus finance the body easily, it will also allow them to add prestige in their work, but it will also reduce the equipment they have to carry considerably since they will be able to share the lenses between the two cameras... With only 3-4 lenses they will be able to do all film, low light and perhaps (if necessary) some video too...
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Speaking for lens compatibility, I believe this camera will be extremely successful among the (large number) of wedding photographers that are using Contax 645 with film (and some that use old Hasselblad H)... I believe it will allow them to get rid of the DSLRs they use alongside their Contax system and thus finance the body easily, it will also allow them to add prestige in their work, but it will also reduce the equipment they have to carry considerably since they will be able to share the lenses between the two cameras... With only 3-4 lenses they will be able to do all film, low light and perhaps (if necessary) some video too...
    The Leica will be neither as fast as a 35mm DSLR nor offer the look of full-frame 645 film... I'm sure that it has its appeal, but it won't offer a replacement to either of the things you mentioned. I love my 645Z but I wouldn't even attempt a wedding unless I also had a 1DX+24-70mm on tap.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    The Leica will be neither as fast as a 35mm DSLR nor offer the look of full-frame 645 film... I'm sure that it has its appeal, but it won't offer a replacement to either of the things you mentioned. I love my 645Z but I wouldn't even attempt a wedding unless I also had a 1DX+24-70mm on tap.
    What you state is irrelevant to the fact that one (not you) will be able to have both digital and film with only 3-4 lenses and the extra status that using a Leica will offer him... Your 645Z can't share the lenses with Contax 645 and (obviously) you don't shoot film...

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    What is it with people's interest in high ISO these days? - just don't get it. I mean seriously??? Who cares what the noise level is at 800 let alone 3200 I've got the original S2 I think I have used it one stop above baseline ...maybe once - and please MR Reichmann of the ex Phase One marketing brigade and now Pentax (oops scratch that) now Sony marketing brigade - give it a rest mate- and concentrate on making dollar shop postcard landscape snaps.

    Hows that for a Leica shooter bare knuckle response - eh?
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    What is it with people's interest in high ISO these days? - just don't get it. I mean seriously??? Who cares what the noise level is at 800 let alone 3200 I've got the original S2 I think I have used it one stop above baseline ...maybe once - and please MR Reichmann of the ex Phase One marketing brigade and now Pentax (oops scratch that) now Sony marketing brigade - give it a rest mate- and concentrate on making dollar shop postcard landscape snaps.

    Hows that for a Leica shooter bare knuckle response - eh?
    That's easy to answer... many pros (other than sports), but wedding photographers too, have to deal with LL photography for a good part of their work...

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    The Leica will be neither as fast as a 35mm DSLR nor offer the look of full-frame 645 film... I'm sure that it has its appeal, but it won't offer a replacement to either of the things you mentioned. I love my 645Z but I wouldn't even attempt a wedding unless I also had a 1DX+24-70mm on tap.
    I don't understand this. How did photographers do weddings with manual focus film cameras? I would easily do a wedding with my 645D, I am sure there would be no problem with the Z. The Leica would be fine as well.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    What is it with people's interest in high ISO these days? - just don't get it. I mean seriously??? Who cares what the noise level is at 800 let alone 3200 I've got the original S2 I think I have used it one stop above baseline ...maybe once - and please MR Reichmann of the ex Phase One marketing brigade and now Pentax (oops scratch that) now Sony marketing brigade - give it a rest mate- and concentrate on making dollar shop postcard landscape snaps.

    Hows that for a Leica shooter bare knuckle response - eh?
    I don't understand how people think there is just one way to do photography--their way. I have done documentary photography with medium-format camera for most of my career, both film and digital. Having high ISOs are really important as the work is mostly handheld. You need the best you can get with those ISOs. It might not be important for you, but photography is not a one-size-fits-all discipline.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    What is it with people's interest in high ISO these days? - just don't get it. I mean seriously??? Who cares what the noise level is at 800 let alone 3200 I've got the original S2 I think I have used it one stop above baseline ...maybe once - and please MR Reichmann of the ex Phase One marketing brigade and now Pentax (oops scratch that) now Sony marketing brigade - give it a rest mate- and concentrate on making dollar shop postcard landscape snaps.

    Hows that for a Leica shooter bare knuckle response - eh?
    Hi Peter. I was going to press Like (I do) and possibly even Thanks (after a suitable wait) then I realised that people who live in glass houses ........


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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    I've had exactly the same impulses as Jono, that said, I'm starting to think that LuLa isn't what it used to be. Not the MF forum, and not the 'reviews' or whatever they call their write-ups nowadays.

    Why bother making a 'non scientific' ISO test/comparison with beta firmware and whitout proper Lr support? What's the agenda here?

    The video chat with Mr Raber - who has nothing to add as usual - is a Muppet show, all shot in backlight like a vacation-video. What were they thinking?
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    I've had exactly the same impulses as Jono, that said, I'm starting to think that LuLa isn't what it used to be. Not the MF forum, and not the 'reviews' or whatever they call their write-ups nowadays.

    Why bother making a 'non scientific' ISO test/comparison with beta firmware and whitout proper Lr support? What's the agenda here?

    The video chat with Mr Raber - who has nothing to add as usual - is a Muppet show, all shot in backlight like a vacation-video. What were they thinking?
    I found that no one was making me go to Luminous Landscapes, so I stopped. I don't read Ken Rockwell's reviews either. That is kind of the nest thing about choice--everyone gets their own to make...

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    I've had exactly the same impulses as Jono, that said, I'm starting to think that LuLa isn't what it used to be. Not the MF forum, and not the 'reviews' or whatever they call their write-ups nowadays.

    Why bother making a 'non scientific' ISO test/comparison with beta firmware and whitout proper Lr support? What's the agenda here?

    The video chat with Mr Raber - who has nothing to add as usual - is a Muppet show, all shot in backlight like a vacation-video. What were they thinking?
    Indeed... I still wonder about the same... why would one bother to compare things when the product under examination isn't supported properly or finished yet? ...that's a real mystery!

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Indeed... I still wonder about the same... why would one bother to compare things when the product under examination isn't supported properly or finished yet? ...that's a real mystery!
    The camera he has many not be the final version, but it is as close to final where you probably will not see a difference in the images--Leica would not have sent it out otherwise. The LR support will probably have little effect on the actual files.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The camera he has many not be the final version, but it is as close to final where you probably will not see a difference in the images--Leica would not have sent it out otherwise. The LR support will probably have little effect on the actual files.
    Not sure I agree with that. Perhaps you are not familiar with Leica's digital cameras.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I don't understand this. How did photographers do weddings with manual focus film cameras? I would easily do a wedding with my 645D, I am sure there would be no problem with the Z. The Leica would be fine as well.
    I'm not sure you understood, in that example if a person wants a fast DSLR and a film camera, an in-between system may not really make sense as an all-in one replacement. You should try and specialize.

    Also, as times change different things are expected. Just because people could do something 20, 50 or 150 years ago, doesn't mean that you should do it today, photographers had always used the most advanced technology available to them at any point in time. Long ago people had no choice but to shoot manual film cameras, but they were the most advanced of their kind at the time, one day people will look back at what we have now and say "how did they ever get anything done with that junk?".
    Last edited by Kolor-Pikker; 27th August 2015 at 11:43.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I found that no one was making me go to Luminous Landscapes, so I stopped. I don't read Ken Rockwell's reviews either. That is kind of the nest thing about choice--everyone gets their own to make...
    it's an interesting problem - When the image quality of all the modern digital cameras is so great, it seems kind of beside the point to do detailed analysis of the image quality - but it's how it's done.

    I like the way Ming Thein approaches things - ie differently for each camera.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Hi,

    I don't know. Let's put it this way, the MTF data that Hasselblad publishes for their lenses is much more relevant for my shooting experience than Ming Thein's findings. Let's put it this way, mostly the images are really good enough. But, once you go to the limits, Hasselblad's published MTF is far more relevant than any of Ming Thein's findings.

    Now, let us be ware that the MTF published by Hasselblad is just a simple point of near optimal performance. Optical designers study hundreds of MTF curves for any design.

    I have been trough something like a dozen of Hasselblad lenses and I see little correlation between mine findings and Ming Tain's. I think we look at stuff from a different perspective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    it's an interesting problem - When the image quality of all the modern digital cameras is so great, it seems kind of beside the point to do detailed analysis of the image quality - but it's how it's done.

    I like the way Ming Thein approaches things - ie differently for each camera.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    it's an interesting problem - When the image quality of all the modern digital cameras is so great, it seems kind of beside the point to do detailed analysis of the image quality - but it's how it's done.
    It's been that way from the start, only to a greater degree, because every camera had the same selection of film. Also, we don't know what great image quality is, in 20 years it'll all be considered terrible, what we have today is what's good enough for us today.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    I'm not sure you understood, in that example if a person wants a fast DSLR and a film camera, an in-between system may not really make sense as an all-in one replacement. You should try and specialize.

    Also, as times change different things are expected. Just because people could do something 20, 50 or 150 years ago, doesn't mean that you should do it today, photographers had always used the most advanced technology available to them at any point in time. Long ago people had no choice but to shoot manual film cameras, but they were the most advanced of their kind at the time, one day people will look back at what we have now and say "how did they ever get anything done with that junk?".
    And yet, you can still buy 4x5 view cameras. There are successful photographers today using wet plate. Yes, photographers have always used the latest technology, but the inverse it true as well--photographers have always not used the latest equipment. Some people want the latest technology. Some don't. Being able to carry out a task is a combination technology and skill. It seems that people confuse those two. I think skill is always better to have. Personally, I think technology is overrated as a solution for a lack of skill.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    it's an interesting problem - When the image quality of all the modern digital cameras is so great, it seems kind of beside the point to do detailed analysis of the image quality - but it's how it's done.

    I like the way Ming Thein approaches things - ie differently for each camera.
    I am not sure I would not want not to know about the performance of a camera if I am thinking about buying, and sometimes out of interest (cameras are interesting things). But it seems more like a sport and tribalism--my (insert brand here) is beating yours (maybe we should paint our faces and wear the scarfs of our local team).

    People are always going to play. I think we can look at the LuLa review for what it is. It has some information, but it is ambiguous. And people enjoying doing that stuff. I am not sure why the frustration--although spreading misinformation get up my nose.

    But you are right, cameras are great. They do what they do well. I think there is a confusion about what the numbers mean and their significance, at least in terms of what they mean for an image. From time to time, someone here will buy an "old" medium format back and wax poetic over it. And they are coming from a technically "better" camera. What gives? Number don't represent perception and skill will always trump specs.
    Will

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The camera he has many not be the final version, but it is as close to final where you probably will not see a difference in the images--Leica would not have sent it out otherwise. The LR support will probably have little effect on the actual files.
    This is far from making sense... Does any MFDB performs the same when the files are processed from any random software than the dedicated one? ...my experience says that it's not anywhere near!

    PS: Even an old P25+ performs much better with the latest version of C1 than it did when it was first introduced... m

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Reidreviews (paid site) is out with first chapter of a rolling review.
    - ErlingMM
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    This is far from making sense... Does any MFDB performs the same when the files are processed from any random software than the dedicated one? ...my experience says that it's not anywhere near!

    PS: Even an old P25+ performs much better with the latest version of C1 than it did when it was first introduced... m
    Well, just look at the images MR posted. They are all very similar--you could say identical. So it would seem that the files were all processed in the same application to the same results. That is not the same as my p25+ files processed in C1 and then Photoshop, which create different results because they are different applications. As far as manufacturers putting in secret sauce, it does not change the basic information contained in the files.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I don't understand how people think there is just one way to do photography--their way. I have done documentary photography with medium-format camera for most of my career, both film and digital. Having high ISOs are really important as the work is mostly handheld. You need the best you can get with those ISOs. It might not be important for you, but photography is not a one-size-fits-all discipline.
    Sorry - where exactly did I say that there is only one way to do photography - I can't see how you could extract that from what I typed?

    I have many camera systems and I choose whatever is best suited for the job that needs to be done - precisely because photography is not a one size fits all system to quote your vernacular. All I am saying is that as far as the S series camera goes - I have no interest in high ISO performance - I wouldn't use it for that. The S system sings in fat light and Studio work - and that is what I use it for. I guess I am also saying that I have little to no interest in reviewer's opines about systems that they don't use the way I use them I care nothing for their criticisms about factors which are irrelevant to me- just like I care nothing for the opines of people who don't shoot with the gear I shoot with - but seem to have to have a say about things they do not know or understand.

    Now if YOU have a a need for high ISO performance from your Pentax and you get it - well that is just fine and dandy my friend - I am happy for your wise choice and the superior performance of your system etc etc ...

    -Pete

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Peter. I was going to press Like (I do) and possibly even Thanks (after a suitable wait) then I realised that people who live in glass houses ........

    You make me laugh Jono..Show some shots you made with the big boy.

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Well, just look at the images MR posted. They are all very similar--you could say identical. So it would seem that the files were all processed in the same application to the same results. That is not the same as my p25+ files processed in C1 and then Photoshop, which create different results because they are different applications. As far as manufacturers putting in secret sauce, it does not change the basic information contained in the files.
    It still doesn't make sense... what are you saying? ...is it that if one develops (say) P45+ files (and compare it with other cameras) with LR they will be up to same quality as if they would have been developed with C1? ...one that has made the comparison would laugh with such a statement...

    Don't forget MR himself states clearly that "he expects the difference NOT to be there" when the files will be developed with dedicated software... in fact you are the only one that insists to state (without solidly supporting your position) that this camera is different than any other and dedicated software won't work on it as it does with every other camera...

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Wow,

    This forum is changing....seems like any attempt at congeniality is lost as the Lord of the Flies boys wax
    eloquently upon their respective biases.

    Get a grip guys ....

    You want High ISO at bargain prices from lenses that vary across the spectrum ...

    You want great lenses that across the board are stellar at largest aperture ...

    On a budget ...

    All of it works if you define your parameters and live within them ...

    S Leica has always defined the top 10% ... something most folks do not want to finance.

    The other 90% is captivating gorgeous compelling wonderful stunning etc etc blah blah blah.....

    Leica is the outlier ... driven to a different message.

    You get it great ... you don't great.

    Bottom line ... Pinhole photography is compelling ... as much so as 80 MP MF captures or 8x10 LF prints.

    Choose your format ... make it work and for GOD's sake quite trying to convert the pagan outliers.

    So

    Confused ... you should be ... we are on a quantum slide out of our comfort zone.

    And I must say that all of the captures I have been privy to of the S 007 are stellar ... not LL but others.

    Just sayin ...

    Bob
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    ......All I am saying is that as far as the S series camera goes - I have no interest in high ISO performance - I wouldn't use it for that. The S system sings in fat light and Studio work - and that is what I use it for.....

    -Pete
    Sorry Peter... where is it written that "the S system sings in fat light and Studio work"? ...and that one sould use a DSLR for LL photography? ...I have no such a book saying that and I don't see the reason why if an MF system does LL as well (or better) than a DSLR not to use it instead... I also have no book that insists that people should invest on two different systems (DSLR & MF) if one can "cover" the other... Especially if the bulk/size is similar....

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    You make me laugh Jono..Show some shots you made with the big boy.
    Peter,

    Seen them!

    They are consistently wonderful ....

    Not that old guys like us need to use ISO 3200 ... By that point of the day I tend to be
    three sheets to the wind and trying to find a comfortable place of recline.

    Disclaimer... I may jump to the CMOS 007 ... colors look very close to the OO6

    Bob
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Sorry Peter... where is it written that "the S system sings in fat light and Studio work"? ...and that one sould use a DSLR for LL photography? ...I have no such a book saying that and I don't see the reason why if an MF system does LL as well (or better) than a DSLR not to use it instead... I also have no book that insists that people should invest on two different systems (DSLR & MF) if one can "cover" the other... Especially if the bulk/size is similar....
    This is a very very funny post - thanks!
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Peter,

    Seen them!

    They are consistently wonderful ....

    Not that old guys like us need to use ISO 3200 ... By that point of the day I tend to be
    three sheets to the wind and trying to find a comfortable place of recline.

    Disclaimer... I may jump to the CMOS 007 ... colors look very close to the OO6

    Bob
    Oh Johnno has been a sneaky poster has he?
    I don't know Bob - I think I will keep my old S2 until it just dies one day ...very tempted to add the super wide and the 100 - but I'm getting great mileage out of an FE 110/2 via adaptor on the S2 for portrait shots, in fact the S2 gave all my 'modern' Hasselblad lenses a new lease of life - especially the 40 IFE - and dare I say - 7K or whatever buys a lot of diesel for my farm machinery or tooling for my machines ....I think I ran out of GAS years ago - can't see much difference in print after PP from one decent camera to another these days...haven't bothered to move to the M240 - still plugging away on my M9 and Monochrome( favourite favourite camera for happy snaps btw) - will stay with M for as long as I can focus my Nocti wide open but the eyes aren't getting any younger thats for sure.
    Good t see you are still around.

    -Pete
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    This is a very very funny post - thanks!
    Quite a funny reply too... lots of reasoning behind it as well....

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Oh Johnno has been a sneaky poster has he?
    I don't know Bob - I think I will keep my old S2 until it just dies one day ...very tempted to add the super wide and the 100 - but I'm getting great mileage out of an FE 110/2 via adaptor on the S2 for portrait shots, in fact the S2 gave all my 'modern' Hasselblad lenses a new lease of life - especially the 40 IFE - and dare I say - 7K or whatever buys a lot of diesel for my farm machinery or tooling for my machines ....I think I ran out of GAS years ago - can't see much difference in print after PP from one decent camera to another these days...haven't bothered to move to the M240 - still plugging away on my M9 and Monochrome( favourite favourite camera for happy snaps btw) - will stay with M for as long as I can focus my Nocti wide open but the eyes aren't getting any younger thats for sure.
    Good t see you are still around.

    -Pete
    No he respects the confidence of Leica as a trusted tester ....

    Here are some released shots from Leica SF which you may or not have seen>

    The Leica S Typ 007: An Introduction and Review | LeicaSphere

    After the fiasco of no focus with a 70 on a new S006 I am opting for the M246 with one lens....

    Life is too short to play the ad mans upgrade game.

    Looking forward to anything that allows my consciousness to keep up with the technology advances....

    Bob
    Last edited by docmoore; 27th August 2015 at 18:06.
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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Sorry - where exactly did I say that there is only one way to do photography - I can't see how you could extract that from what I typed?
    From your post:

    What is it with people's interest in high ISO these days? - just don't get it. I mean seriously??? Who cares what the noise level is at 800 let alone 3200 I've got the original S2 I think I have used it one stop above baseline ...maybe once
    Some people do care about high ISOs. You seem to imply that you just keep the ISO low and there is no point in doing something else.
    Will

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    From your post:



    Some people do care about high ISOs. You seem to imply that you just keep the ISO low and there is no point in doing something else.
    I '"seem to imply" and then you go on with more made up stories to suit your straw man argument in the first place?

    I won't use my S2 for high ISO shooting I use it for what it was designed to do as a great studio camera and secondly as an occasional walk around in FAT bright sunlight. The S2 is crap above 640 ISO. If I am going to need higher ISO I choose something different.

    What I do object to is misinformation spread y non photographers like Mr Reichman and MR Lloyd - internet scammers who have built businesses- from encouraging sillies to become pixel peeping voyeurs - savants in the field of toatally useless information and carriers of permanent anxiety syndromes surrounding what issues may be appearing at 300X magnification or at ISO 100,000



    -Pete

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I '"seem to imply" and then you go on with more made up stories to suit your straw man argument in the first place?

    I won't use my S2 for high ISO shooting I use it for what it was designed to do as a great studio camera and secondly as an occasional walk around in FAT bright sunlight. The S2 is crap above 640 ISO. If I am going to need higher ISO I choose something different.

    What I do object to is misinformation spread y non photographers like Mr Reichman and MR Lloyd - internet scammers who have built businesses- from encouraging sillies to become pixel peeping voyeurs - savants in the field of toatally useless information and carriers of permanent anxiety syndromes surrounding what issues may be appearing at 300X magnification or at ISO 100,000



    -Pete
    Wow. My mistake.

    But I am glad you don't resort to strawman fallacies. Or even making up stories to suit those arguments. Always nice to see such levelheaded reasoning on the web.
    Will

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    Re: Leica S (007) starts career at significantly lower price...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I am not sure I would not want not to know about the performance of a camera...
    Gonna take me a few days to get my head around that before I can continue reading the rest of the thread
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