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Any Rolleiflex 6008AF & Hy6 users here?

I have a line on purchasing a Leaf AFI, 80mm Xeno AF & 6045 back for a price that I think is reasonable. But I've also been in talks with Eric from Rolleiflex dot US (So, so, so happy about the efforts to not simply let Rolleiflex go the way of the Dodo). He's recommending the 6008AF for a number of reasons...

So I should preface this, I'm a film shooter. Will not be using a digital back probably ever.

6008AF Pros:
Cheaper, by a lot.
Easy access to 6x6 and 645 backs and WAYYYY cheaper inserts. (I shoot weddings so inserts are gold).
Same lenses.
Seemingly same metering, TTL, shutter, etc capabilities.

Cons v the Hy6:
Larger/Heavier.
Nicad batteries.
Unknown AF quality/speed.

So I have a lot of "known unknowns". Mostly I'd like to know how the AF compares to the Hy6, and conversely how the AF of either compare to the H1. I understand the problems with Nicad batteries have been solved, so I'm not super concerned as long as cells are available and cheapish, but Li-Ion batts are preferred.

Is the AF in the 6008AF as useless as say, the AF in the Contax 645? How does it compare to the H1, which is pretty much my minimum for 'useful'. I know the screens are good but manual focusing is out for me these days. I need it to lock on relatively quickly and reliably.

Also there is some talk about how later model AFI's and Hy6 Mod 1s have larger AF cells... I'm asking my guy what firmware his AFI is to know about the cells, but does anyone know the practical difference from experience?

Thanks! I know I'm asking about a system that is rare and a little pricy, but in a way most of us on GetDPI are using rare and pricy systems so I figured this would be the place to get questions answered. :)
 

Geoff

Well-known member
Interesting question. Having had these, hopefully can shed some light.

For film, the 600X series is quite good - favorite was the 6003 (got it new in 1992), with removable handle and a skinny back. The 6008 has a bit more going for it, its robust, well made, kind of bulletproof. With new batteries, and not digital, its a fine answer. Film plane is exceptionally flat, the lenses are very good (or better). The 6008AF worked with AF lenses fine, but stretched its (then older) batteries a bit. The newer ones make this issue go away.

The 6008AF has decent AF. Maybe a bit less than the Hy6, but neither are akin to DSLR AF, rather more like the Contax. Personal preference is for manual focus lenses tho, simpler and less fussy.

The Hy6 redesign had better digital interface, less mirror slap, and a bunch of features you are not likely to need (way too many to list but can send a list if you want). For digital, I prefer the Hy6. If film only, the 6008 is easier and has better film handling (backs, cassettes). You can do film on the Hy6, but its not quite as well thought through as the 6008, with the cassettes that are a breeze to use.

Eric has a lot of experience (more than anyone else), his opinion is spot on. Hope this helps.
 
Interesting question. Having had these, hopefully can shed some light.

For film, the 600X series is quite good - favorite was the 6003 (got it new in 1992), with removable handle and a skinny back. The 6008 has a bit more going for it, its robust, well made, kind of bulletproof. With new batteries, and not digital, its a fine answer. Film plane is exceptionally flat, the lenses are very good (or better). The 6008AF worked with AF lenses fine, but stretched its (then older) batteries a bit. The newer ones make this issue go away.

The 6008AF has decent AF. Maybe a bit less than the Hy6, but neither are akin to DSLR AF, rather more like the Contax. Personal preference is for manual focus lenses tho, simpler and less fussy.

The Hy6 redesign had better digital interface, less mirror slap, and a bunch of features you are not likely to need (way too many to list but can send a list if you want). For digital, I prefer the Hy6. If film only, the 6008 is easier and has better film handling (backs, cassettes). You can do film on the Hy6, but its not quite as well thought through as the 6008, with the cassettes that are a breeze to use.

Eric has a lot of experience (more than anyone else), his opinion is spot on. Hope this helps.
Yeah, I have no expectations that the AF will be anything like a DSLR, or even my F100 or F6. But if it's like an H1 then you can do something with it. The Contax 645 AF in my experience is like not having AF at all. It barely works and is not at all accurate, so that would be BAD.

It's really just that AF system that's keeping me focused on the Hy6... I know it'll be MUCH cheaper with a 6008AF but if I'm manually focusing I might as well get a cheap Hasselblad or keep using my 2.8E. AF for me is more about consistency and speed.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
Yeah, I have no expectations that the AF will be anything like a DSLR, or even my F100 or F6. But if it's like an H1 then you can do something with it. The Contax 645 AF in my experience is like not having AF at all. It barely works and is not at all accurate, so that would be BAD.

It's really just that AF system that's keeping me focused on the Hy6... I know it'll be MUCH cheaper with a 6008AF but if I'm manually focusing I might as well get a cheap Hasselblad or keep using my 2.8E. AF for me is more about consistency and speed.
Hard to gauge your expectations, but the 6008AF is better than that. Didn't use it that long, but it is accurate and with the 50, 80 or 180 works well enough. Could you borrow a 6008AF and check it out?
 
I have asked Eric about renting, still waiting to hear back. I think he mentioned a Summer vacation which is understandable! It's hard to know how good an AF system is until you use it, everybody has different expectations...
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I had both the Hy6 and 6008AF. I shot film on both, and digital on the Hy6. The Hy6 has some nicer ergonomics in certain ways, but it is still a slightly odd shape for a camera. The loading and film handling of 6x6 was great on the 6008AF, but the 6x6 back for the Hy6 was not made when I had the camera, so I cannot speak to it. The 645 back worked the same on both cameras. The battery was a lot nicer to deal with on the Hy6...The 6008AF battery was a pain, since it had to be carefully cared for. I had two or three batteries, and they would rarely last for more than 3 or 4 rolls each on a single afternoon. I am sure with modern replacements this could be solved, but expect to need to do it if it has not been done already.

As for AF, the Hy6 was better, but neither was particularly good. I had two AF lenses, the 80mm and 180mm. The 180mm was more accurate. Both were pretty loud and jumpy in the way they focused. I did not really trust them much for accuracy. When I switched to the Leica S2, I immediately noticed how much better the focus was, both in accuracy and in performance. Personally, I would not rely on the AF on a Hy6 or 6008AF these days. It is useful for getting you in the right ballpark, but better to check with your own eyes if your vision is good. The good news is that the screens and finders are extremely good and the lenses are pretty fast, so you can accurately focus pretty well, and the AF confirmation can also help even with manual lenses.

As for metering, I found that the system was good, but a bit finicky. For some reason I always got better, more consistent readings with the center weighted meter in the Hasselblad 203FE. The Rollei seemed to have a harder time getting perfectly exposed slides, or rather, I had a harder time getting perfectly exposed slides with it. I will say, however, than in every side by side test I did with it, it was consistently sharper than the Hasselblad even with the "same" lenses. For example, I had the 110mm Planar for both systems, and the Rollei was sharper. The rollei 180mm 2.8 AF was also a lot sharper than the Hasselblad 180mm Sonnar in my tests, which I was not expecting. I also really liked the 60mm Curtagon and 80mm Xenotar AF and 150mm Tele-Xenar lenses. I did not have much luck with the 40mm Super Angulon...mine was not that impressive in sharpness, though it was a compact and ergonomic lens. By contrast, the 60mm was spectacular. I did not have a 50...I think the reason that the Rollei beat the Hasselblad was the better film holder construction...film plane on the body of the camera and a straight film path, versus reverse curl and the film register in the back, as opposed to the body of the camera...I think it made the tolerances a but more variable, whereas with the Rollei, the film was always right in the right place and had a big, heavy pressure plate pushing the film flat, which a much longer film path with less problems coming from the reverse curl. In that sense, I am not sure how the Hy6 version of the 6x6 back works. Personally if I were going to only shoot film, I would go for a 6008AF or 6008i, rather than the Hy6. They are heavier and their batteries are a pain, but the film loading and ergonomics are somehow more pleasing. Or at least they were to me. Everything on the Hy6 is digital dials, I liked the option of using an aperture ring and knobs on the 6008AF, and the 6x6 film back really was brilliant...their loading and self closing darkslides make for the best film magazines ever made. At least that I have used!
 
I had both the Hy6 and 6008AF. I shot film on both, and digital on the Hy6. The Hy6 has some nicer ergonomics in certain ways, but it is still a slightly odd shape for a camera. The loading and film handling of 6x6 was great on the 6008AF, but the 6x6 back for the Hy6 was not made when I had the camera, so I cannot speak to it. The 645 back worked the same on both cameras. The battery was a lot nicer to deal with on the Hy6...The 6008AF battery was a pain, since it had to be carefully cared for. I had two or three batteries, and they would rarely last for more than 3 or 4 rolls each on a single afternoon. I am sure with modern replacements this could be solved, but expect to need to do it if it has not been done already.

As for AF, the Hy6 was better, but neither was particularly good. I had two AF lenses, the 80mm and 180mm. The 180mm was more accurate. Both were pretty loud and jumpy in the way they focused. I did not really trust them much for accuracy. When I switched to the Leica S2, I immediately noticed how much better the focus was, both in accuracy and in performance. Personally, I would not rely on the AF on a Hy6 or 6008AF these days. It is useful for getting you in the right ballpark, but better to check with your own eyes if your vision is good. The good news is that the screens and finders are extremely good and the lenses are pretty fast, so you can accurately focus pretty well, and the AF confirmation can also help even with manual lenses.

As for metering, I found that the system was good, but a bit finicky. For some reason I always got better, more consistent readings with the center weighted meter in the Hasselblad 203FE. The Rollei seemed to have a harder time getting perfectly exposed slides, or rather, I had a harder time getting perfectly exposed slides with it. I will say, however, than in every side by side test I did with it, it was consistently sharper than the Hasselblad even with the "same" lenses. For example, I had the 110mm Planar for both systems, and the Rollei was sharper. The rollei 180mm 2.8 AF was also a lot sharper than the Hasselblad 180mm Sonnar in my tests, which I was not expecting. I also really liked the 60mm Curtagon and 80mm Xenotar AF and 150mm Tele-Xenar lenses. I did not have much luck with the 40mm Super Angulon...mine was not that impressive in sharpness, though it was a compact and ergonomic lens. By contrast, the 60mm was spectacular. I did not have a 50...I think the reason that the Rollei beat the Hasselblad was the better film holder construction...film plane on the body of the camera and a straight film path, versus reverse curl and the film register in the back, as opposed to the body of the camera...I think it made the tolerances a but more variable, whereas with the Rollei, the film was always right in the right place and had a big, heavy pressure plate pushing the film flat, which a much longer film path with less problems coming from the reverse curl. In that sense, I am not sure how the Hy6 version of the 6x6 back works. Personally if I were going to only shoot film, I would go for a 6008AF or 6008i, rather than the Hy6. They are heavier and their batteries are a pain, but the film loading and ergonomics are somehow more pleasing. Or at least they were to me. Everything on the Hy6 is digital dials, I liked the option of using an aperture ring and knobs on the 6008AF, and the 6x6 film back really was brilliant...their loading and self closing darkslides make for the best film magazines ever made. At least that I have used!
Thank you for this detailed summary! I really appreciate you taking the time.

So, here's what's happened since this post. I have always thought the Hy6 and it's variants were too pricey or rare to for me to find. However a friend of mine owns a film shooting Leaf AFI, with the 645 back & an 80 AFD. I am starting a film scanning lab here in Portland ME, and so I am buying some Fuji Frontier masks from him. He mention that he could make a deal for me that included his camera and the masks, so I ended up going with that. In another world, the 6008AF would have been the better choice for me, but the $ I am spending on the AFI and the masks comes close to what I'm spending now. He has an older firmware that doesn't have the updated AF, so I will not be enjoying the best that it can do, but I am hoping it's sufficient for my needs. Just as important, it gets me in the system so I can start squirreling away for a Hy6 Mod 2. Eric from Rolleiflex dot US says he expects shipments of 6060 backs to resume this Summer, so I'm hoping to have one by the fall.

Plus, if I change my mind and find that the 6008AF is a better choice, my back and lens will work! I can't wait to see what this thing can do. :)
 

rickgrainger

New member
Thank you for this detailed summary! I really appreciate you taking the time.

So, here's what's happened since this post. I have always thought the Hy6 and it's variants were too pricey or rare to for me to find. However a friend of mine owns a film shooting Leaf AFI, with the 645 back & an 80 AFD. I am starting a film scanning lab here in Portland ME, and so I am buying some Fuji Frontier masks from him. He mention that he could make a deal for me that included his camera and the masks, so I ended up going with that. In another world, the 6008AF would have been the better choice for me, but the $ I am spending on the AFI and the masks comes close to what I'm spending now. He has an older firmware that doesn't have the updated AF, so I will not be enjoying the best that it can do, but I am hoping it's sufficient for my needs. Just as important, it gets me in the system so I can start squirreling away for a Hy6 Mod 2. Eric from Rolleiflex dot US says he expects shipments of 6060 backs to resume this Summer, so I'm hoping to have one by the fall.

Plus, if I change my mind and find that the 6008AF is a better choice, my back and lens will work! I can't wait to see what this thing can do. :)
Keep us posted on what you find. I would be very interested.
 
Got my Hy6 Mod 1! Technically an AFI. So to be clear I have the smaller, older model AF cells.

Just to give an answer to my own question re the AF, it's decent, not amazing. Basically like everyone said. It is relatively quick, and when I'm out and about it does find it's mark. But it's also prone to missing, and at worst, giving up. It kind of reminds me of a Contax G2. You gotta use it in 'button' AF mode, so that you can always override it to focus properly. Luckily the screen is just fantastic. As good as a Maxwell IMO. And the meter seems top notch. I probably won't carry a handheld with me if I can avoid it.

Overall I'm very impressed with it. When I can afford to, I'll be upgrading to a Mod 2, but for now I'm happy to have a recent-ish state of the art medium format film camera. The 80mm Xenotar is very impressive, and I love the light weight of it in the AF version.

The back design, with it's symmetrical inserts is very smart. Sometimes little things go a long way.

Now I just need my Rollei TLR back from the doctor and I'll be cooking with gas, so to speak.
 
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