The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Future MF Digital Decisions ~ 2018

Frankly

New member
My intuition (often wrong, also falling within the area of a little knowledge being dangerous) tells me that you'll do better with 100 Mp on the larger sensor than on the crop sensor, at least when printing large, since the overall magnification will be less.

Thanks as well to Erik for his informative post re: MTF curves and overall system resolution. The comparison of the same lens on the 12 Mp D700 vs 36 Mp D800 is particularly interesting to me, given my own personal conundrum: I love the smooth tonality of the images from my old D700 (since sold, regretfully) but find the D800E to give a more clinical or "digital" rendering, which I never warmed up to (it's not all about resolution!). Thus started my journey down the MFDB rabbit hole...

John
Thank you everyone, this has been more informative than 100's of pages of manufacturer's literature and PR.

Yes, my unscientific pauper's comparison is that sometimes the old Nikon D200 CCD files looked wonderful when the lighting suited them... and the D700 was "smooth" even though by all counts the D800 surpassed it. Still in real life my D810s have always answered the call and gotten the shot in difficult lighting.

I'm starting to think that perhaps I should invest in a trip to Atlanta to play at Capture Integration or find someone with an older MFDB to rent? Are their any options? I am near Rochester (Kodak). Is there a good place near Toronto?

I have to admit a large part of this is psychological and has to do with how we picture ourselves as photographers. Truth is that we should be able to make meaningful photos with rudimentary equipment but still a part of me wants the status ($$$, success, one-upmanship) and labor-technical investment (if I work hard I'll get better results). And those Phase videos of the rugged landscape photographer trudging through Iceland with his F-Stop backpack, pausing to set up a shot and wi-fi'ing the image to his phone, etc. all very effective marketing to my demographic. I gave up my 8x10 several years ago but always felt guilty about it.

It's fun to bring everyone down on print size because we used to do outdoor billboards 14' x 44' is the standard expressway size... and I used 2mp cameras at the turn of the century, they were printed at 11dpi. "11" is not a mistake.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Victor,

If your lenses keep up with the sensor an increase in sensor resolution will increase sharpness in a print. Looking on screen at actual pixels, it will probably not be the case as you would look at the image at a higher resolution.

If the GFX using an 100 MP sensor can hold up with the IQ3100MP is a bit hard to tell. Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on the lenses. In theory, designing the GFX lenses for a smaller format would make it possible to achieve better correction. Indeed, when Jim Kasson tested the Fuji lenses he found that they are extraordinary. But, Fuji uses a small trick to improve sharpness and that is to reduce the pixel aperture.

Using the presumed 100 MP GFX with the Phase One lenses, I don't think the GFX would keep up. The GFX would need higher magnification for any detail. So, I don't think so.

How the GFX sensors will work with view camera lenses is an open question. A smaller sensor will allow for more shift, but how angular effects are handled is a different question. We have to wait and see.

In general, a smaller sensor needs less stopping down for same DoF, and that may help sharpness as most lenses will be in diffraction affected territory at f/11. Actually, I mostly use f/11 with my Hasselblad V/P45+ combo. It is not so easy to focus exactly, and I don't think I will give upp that much sharpness. On the A7rII I use f/8. I know I loose some sharpness with some lenses but it seems to be a decent compromise. With tilts I use f/11 or f/13. It is seldom that the tilted focal plane matches the subject plane exactly.

So, I am very positive about the GFX (and the X1D) to offer a competitive alternative to the 54x40 mm 100MP backs. But 150MP is around the corner.

My perception is that Phase One is more of a 54x40 mm sensor player, my guess is that they are comfortable with the price level. Hasselblad, I guess they are more focused on 44x33 mm at lower price and higher volume. They have adjusted the price of the H6D50c down to the price of an X1D + an H5X. Seems reasonable... But the H6D100c is priced like Phase One IQ3100MP. Hasselblad needs to sell many X1Ds as earning per camera body are probably not that high.

But, I am just an interested bystander, the P45+ was my last venture in MFD. But, yes, I feel the GFX makes a lot of sense.

Best regards
Erik


Erik...... I always appreciate your contributions. I know just enough of this to be a little dangerous. The absolute bottom line for me is the print and how all of this will manifest itself at my print sizes. I'm always printing at 40 to 44 inches on the long side. With my current back (Phase 3100) this means almost (0) upsizing (native size of a file is 38 inches on the long side). I shoot at F11 almost exclusively and can see the effects of stopping down further on screen and print. If a 150MP back would keep me at the same level of sharpness at the same print sizes then I would consider that keeping me whole. However, and this has nothing to do with diffraction, it would never be worth $25,000.00 out of my pocket. If a GFX at 100MP can give me the same image I am getting now at the same aperture and size then that would be a very attractive system for me as I would be able to take advantage of all of my Schneider lenses and the movements of my Actus.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.......

Victor
 
IMO the thread is reaching its conclusion with these two wise sentences:

"Why not accept that there are tradeoffs throughout a system, and the optimal result is almost never achieved by sacrificing every other parameter to maximize a single one?" – Matt

That's how the OP's practical question about resolution morphed into one about theoretical limits.

And "I have to admit a large part of this is psychological and has to do with how we picture ourselves as photographers." – Frank

Let's read that last one over again, because it contains the pitfall underneath it all – "picturing ourselves as photographers."

HNY,

Kirk
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
... I'm starting to think that perhaps I should invest in a trip to Atlanta to play at Capture Integration or find someone with an older MFDB to rent? ....
If you do come to Atlanta, give us all a shout. We would love to meet you! I am sure Steve Hendrix will be happy to see you at CI soon!
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
....

I'm starting to think that perhaps I should invest in a trip to Atlanta to play at Capture Integration or find someone with an older MFDB to rent? Are their any options?....
Capture Integration in Carmel 2018, March 1-4, 2018, is an ideal opportunity to see/try different medium format digital systems. There are also other venues/events that CI sponsors. It is great to be able to shoot camera systems on location, and if you have any questions, there are always knowledgeable techs and other experienced medium format digital photographers close at hand.

I'm not sure how many slots are open. Registration is online at www.captureintegration.com Look under Events & Workshops. Call CI.

Ken
 
Top