Hasselblad X1D EVF Blackout

[DB5]

I was close to purchase and then I read more in depth about the EVF blackout time in-between shots.

Is it really around 2 seconds for RAW only? That's just not going to work for me.

This is like a stake in my heart and a major let down. Has it been talked about by Hasselblad? Can they get this down to something half reasonable via firmware?

The X2D-100c should potentially solve this with 6fps according to the Sony Sensor roadmap. But that is a hell of a long wait, probably next year.

:banghead:

 

[tcdeveau]

I just clocked 1.15 secs - latest firmware, RAW only, SD card slots 1 and 2 set to mirror. If you need faster, the X1D may not be for you, however I’d recommend demoing one and take it from there. No idea if it can/will be improved via firmware update but I don’t need faster for my shooting so it suits me just fine.

The X2D should be better/faster/etc and improve upon a lot, but as you u mention, it may be awhile before we see one on the shelf.

 

[DB5]

I just clocked 1.15 secs - latest firmware, RAW only, SD card slots 1 and 2 set to mirror. If you need faster, the X1D may not be for you, however I’d recommend demoing one and take it from there. No idea if it can/will be improved via firmware update but I don’t need faster for my shooting so it suits me just fine.

The X2D should be better/faster/etc and improve upon a lot, but as you u mention, it may be awhile before we see one on the shelf.

Thank you, that is helpful information. 1.15 seconds is actually quite usable now. I'm amazed at how quickly Hasselblad has addressed these sort of issues with firmware.

 

[hcubell]

1.15 seconds is consistent with my measurements from last February, so I don't think this has changed with recent firmware updates. My understanding is that the EVF blackout in the X1D is a byproduct of the 50MP Sony sensor used in the X1D. I believe it, because there is also an EVF blackout with the Fuji GFX using the same sensor. However, Fuji has somehow managed to reduce the EVF blackout to more like .5 seconds or so. From comments I recall seeing by Fuji, they are well aware of the EVF blackout issues and expect that the next generation 100MP Sony sensor will "significantly" reduce the EVF blackout, but I doubt that it will eliminate it altogether.
FWIW, I have never found the EVF blackout with the X1D to be a problem, but I tend to shoot static subjects.

 

[sog1927]

Thank you, that is helpful information. 1.15 seconds is actually quite usable now. I'm amazed at how quickly Hasselblad has addressed these sort of issues with firmware.

Single card, raw mode, e-shutter, latest firmware seems to run a little bit less than a second for me (it's hard to shoot and time accurately, so it might be 1.15, but it *feels* faster). This is perfectly fine from my perspective, but then I'm used to Hasselblad 500-series cameras where the finder is blacked out until you wind the camera.

 

[bab]

Latest camera rumors and announcements mention ability to have no EVF black out so I would think your all on the right track about the sensors limit. OVF has the advantage there for keeping an eye on the image while bursting.

 

[DB5]

Single card, raw mode, e-shutter, latest firmware seems to run a little bit less than a second for me (it's hard to shoot and time accurately, so it might be 1.15, but it *feels* faster). This is perfectly fine from my perspective, but then I'm used to Hasselblad 500-series cameras where the finder is blacked out until you wind the camera.

Actually, good point about older wind on camera's, we got by fine.

 

[dave.gt]

Actually, good point about older wind on camera's, we got by fine.

It took me awhile for the term "black out" to register. I have never looked through an EVF and am quite happy with OVF, anyway. Coming from both a Nikon, then Leica background I never understood the so-called advantage of RF, or the disadvantages of SLR "blackout"... I just used the cameras as they were intended and ignored the incessant arguments. Life was and is too short.

I am sure there are good points on both sides and that everyone is different. I know I am a little different and always have been a little different than most but I can't help that...

With my 503 and the studio's H5, there is never a thought about viewfinder blackout. I just get on with it.

I guess I am just hopeless.:facesmack:

___________(interlude)_________

So, I am back after my usual interruptions around here...

One never knows about the future...maybe an X1D will be in my future. If so, what does the blackout affect? Studio work? Fast action shots? Something in between? It seems as mysterious to me as the "dark slide" problem mentioned to me with P1 backs.

Please enlighten me on the "blackout" issue/non-issue... I certainly won't be able to drop by a Hasselblad store and try one out!

 

[DB5]

It took me awhile for the term "black out" to register. I have never looked through an EVF and am quite happy with OVF, anyway. Coming from both a Nikon, then Leica background I never understood the so-called advantage of RF, or the disadvantages of SLR "blackout"... I just used the cameras as they were intended and ignored the incessant arguments. Life was and is too short.

I am sure there are good points on both sides and that everyone is different. I know I am a little different and always have been a little different than most but I can't help that...

With my 503 and the studio's H5, there is never a thought about viewfinder blackout. I just get on with it.

I guess I am just hopeless.:facesmack:

___________(interlude)_________

So, I am back after my usual interruptions around here...

One never knows about the future...maybe an X1D will be in my future. If so, what does the blackout affect? Studio work? Fast action shots? Something in between? It seems as mysterious to me as the "dark slide" problem mentioned to me with P1 backs.

Please enlighten me on the "blackout" issue/non-issue... I certainly won't be able to drop by a Hasselblad store and try one out!

Actually the point made about Hasselblad V's and also cameras like the RZ that I'm used to winding on is a good one and I had not thought of that. But i've not shot with those cameras in a decade now. I have been using an H too and that slight blackout from the mirror is not a problem at all. Either is a 555 V Blad with a winder. But yeah. point take about the non winder Blads.

But the blackout is such that for what I do - people photography mainly - the blackout can be an issue. a 2 second blackout means you are shooting a frame every 3-4 seconds once you have assessed the shot, refocused, etc etc. For what I do 1 frame per second is a sort of minimum to me. Anything longer and you miss moments, subtle expressions. It creates a barrier. Any time the camera is locked up means there can and will be missed shots.

Obviously this is fine if you shoot landscape of product etc.

 

[docmoore]

Just a thought ... X1D has a silent mode that allows very quick shooting. But you have to focus first then enter that mode. Shot to shot time is minimal.

Were I doing portraiture and needed fast response this would work. For more contemplative portraits I would use the normal mode.

Hard to imagine that one needs 60 shots in a minute ... I imagine that Karsch rarely did more than 10 exposures in a session.

I assume that our inability to envision anything less than 4K 60 FPS is related to the social media and marginalized focus today.

The Lincoln Douglas debates were 3 hours long. No soundbites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln–Douglas_debates

Expression and interaction occur not when you are focused on the OVF or EVF but when you are engaged with the subject.

Us old guys have a bit different perspective ....

Bob

 

[DB5]

Just a thought ... X1D has a silent mode that allows very quick shooting. But you have to focus first then enter that mode. Shot to shot time is minimal.

Were I doing portraiture and needed fast response this would work. For more contemplative portraits I would use the normal mode.

Hard to imagine that one needs 60 shots in a minute ... I imagine that Karsch rarely did more than 10 exposures in a session.

I assume that our inability to envision anything less than 4K 60 FPS is related to the social media and marginalized focus today.

The Lincoln Douglas debates were 3 hours long. No soundbites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln–Douglas_debates

Expression and interaction occur not when you are focused on the OVF or EVF but when you are engaged with the subject.

Us old guys have a bit different perspective ....

Bob

A bit too much assumption in there.

I have been shooting for 30 years. I don't need 60 shots in a minute. Sometimes I do need 3 in 3 seconds.

Karsh did 10, so what? That was his style and his time. Guy Bourdin did hundreds. Peter Lindeberg sometimes shoots at 5 fps.

It's absolutely laughable to suggest there are any kind of rules.

 

[dave.gt]

Actually the point made about Hasselblad V's and also cameras like the RZ that I'm used to winding on is a good one and I had not thought of that. But i've not shot with those cameras in a decade now. I have been using an H too and that slight blackout from the mirror is not a problem at all. Either is a 555 V Blad with a winder. But yeah. point take about the non winder Blads.

But the blackout is such that for what I do - people photography mainly - the blackout can be an issue. a 2 second blackout means you are shooting a frame every 3-4 seconds once you have assessed the shot, refocused, etc etc. For what I do 1 frame per second is a sort of minimum to me. Anything longer and you miss moments, subtle expressions. It creates a barrier. Any time the camera is locked up means there can and will be missed shots.

Obviously this is fine if you shoot landscape of product etc.

Good morning!

Thanks for your reply, I certainly understand. No longer doing sports or auto racing, thankfully, I don't think much beyond stills, so I am perfectly delighted with the H5D-50c which belongs to the studio. During our January break, I have been re-introduced to the 503 and my old film Nikons....so my attention has been on different films and formats for specific purposes. It is a really nice way of exercising my brain and soon I will get back into portraits in studio.

I would be interested to see some of your work since you also have been shooting the H5.

 

[JeRuFo]

I really don't mind the blackout on the X1D, because for me it is a single shot camera. I have never mastered keeping both eyes open while looking through a viewfinder and after every shot I open my eyes again to see the scene in real life, the only camera I could get away with not look at the scene directly again was a Leica M with a 50mm attached, that allowed for enough space around the frame to recompose and shoot again sometimes. But I'm a slow shooter, even in social situations and photojournalism assignments, and my main camera is an LF technical camera, which has a blackout of about 30s and most of those are before the actual capture. If you are a fast shooter, the X1D is the wrong choice for you anyway IMHO.

 

[docmoore]

A bit too much assumption in there.

I have been shooting for 30 years. I don't need 60 shots in a minute. Sometimes I do need 3 in 3 seconds.

Karsh did 10, so what? That was his style and his time. Guy Bourdin did hundreds. Peter Lindeberg sometimes shoots at 5 fps.

It's absolutely laughable to suggest there are any kind of rules.

First sentence ... "... X1D has a silent mode that allows very quick shooting. But you have to focus first then enter that mode. Shot to shot time is minimal."

MQ mode moderately fast shooting is available ... no viewfinder ... prefocus and adjust exposure. It fires about as quick as you can push the shutter release.
I just did 6 shots in single shot mode in 4 seconds.

Title Captured from EXIF Data in PS

Continuous shutter is marginally a bit faster.

Probably not what you are looking for.

Bob

 

[sog1927]

You know, if you're only worried about recomposition (rather than manual focusing) you could always make up an appropriate mask for one of these:

http://linhof.com/en/optischer-universalsucher/

No blackout *ever*.