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Leica 006 VS Fuji GFX 50

Satrycon

Well-known member
and from the Japanese website >



Fujifilm GFX Firmware Update (ver. 3.00) – Available end of February


Focus bracketing
With the update, the automatic recording of image series (up to 999 images) with different focus settings is possible. After each triggering, the camera independently shifts the focus plane by the previously set step value (1-10).

Small picture format mode (meaning Full Frame Format)

In the new 35mm format mode, the active sensor area is limited to a 36.0mm x 24.0mm (30.5 megapixel) area in the center of the image. As a result, interchangeable lenses whose image circle corresponds to the 35 mm format can be used even more conveniently. If desired, one of the function keys (Fn) of the GFX 50S can be assigned this function.

Compatibility with H MOUNT ADAPTER G
The new firmware also extends the compatibility of the H MOUNT ADAPTER G with additional lenses and other accessories. A list of compatible products is available on the Internet at:
http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/compatibility/mountadapter/
 

DB5

Member
Leica is going to have to come out swinging. You can't read one forum thread which isn't shrouded in bitter disappointment from bad reliability and service and poor performance. Of course there are happy customers too, but it seems weighted to to the side of disappointment and Leica are becoming a byword in dissatisfaction.

It was decent system to begin with and it would be good if they can at least remain competitive but I really can't see how this could happen with Hasselblad and Fuji taking the leaps and strides that they are. Leica have been a victim of their own success and hype and a victim of their own poor service which is not reflected in their relatively extremely high prices. Leica needs an overhaul and I hope they can get back on track.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Some of these posts boarder on disinformation . I have plenty of experience with Leica s products and the S in particular . This is how it stands TODAY .

1. The CCD S cameras S2/S006/SE are all at risk for sensor corrosion issues similar to the M8/M9 . Leica has typically performed this service without charge . However they have been moving to a FIVE YEAR RULE for free replacements . Cameras older than FIVE YEARS should be avoided as the replacement is prohibitively expensive .

2. The S lens AF motor(actually a gear that strips) is a weakness in every lens produced over two years ago . Once replaced the AF is bullet proof . New lenses that have been sitting on the shelf are actually the worst because they are typically stiff . The gear was not up to handling the AF speed of the S 007 . If the gear strips Leica has been replacing the gear for under $500 if the lens is over FIVE YEARS. You can have the gear replaced before it fails ...I paid less than $300 .

3. Long repair times depend on two factors (1) can you arrange ..dealer maybe ...to get your camera to directly to GERMANY . and (2) will Leica have the sensors available . If the camera goes thru NJ you can add almost a month to the turn around time . My turn around on Leica S lenses (had 8 lenses upgraded) took almost exactly a MONTH to and from Germany . This was done in four shipments and none were in the factory for more than two weeks .

Sensor replacement is the big question mark ......you can wait months if the sensors are not available . Plus do you think Leica can maintain enough spare sensors indefinitely ?

For the above reasons and in spite of the terrific aesthetic produced by the CCD Leica S cameras ....I would tell most to avoid them . If you have one great ..I still have my S 006 and never plan on selling it . I ve seen nothing that touches the S 006 with the 100/2 for shooting people .

The S 007 is a much much better alternative ..they have been available for less than $10K new . I find the S lenses terrific ..best I ve ever used . As a set they are all color matched and produce a similar aesthetic ..I don t think you can best the 24/30/45 for set of wide angles . In fact the only capability I desire in the S system would be more MP . The S 007 was forgotten in evaluations because it was (1) too expensive and (2) only 37.5 MP. If you are serious about the S system go out to REDDOT FORUM and read the articles . Look at David Farkes images from ICELAND . There is nothing old and behind the times with the S 007 . Price is a personal decision its not a Best Buy . :banghead:
 

chrismuc

Member
Thanks for the posting!

Seems to be an excellent system. Jim Kasson has run a lot of tests on the GFX and his findings are really that the lenses are as good as it gets. Otus class is not an overword.

Still, Jim's research indicates that focus shift when stopping down is still an issue. My understanding is that GFX autofocusing handles this better than say Sony A7rII or Nikon D850.

Lloyd Chambers has reported focusing issues on several samples of the Leica S-models, sometimes really bad sometimes not so obvious.

Just to say, Lloyd also found lot of issues with the GFX, but it seems that things are pretty OK now as he seems extremely happy with lens performance these days.

I won't buy the GFX, the Sony A7rII I own is good enough for my needs and fits within my budget, but it seems Fuji has created a very attractive system in the GFX and done it at a reasonable cost.

Best regards
Erik
Hi Erik,
I am a subscriber of Lloyd's site and sometimes contact him to share and discuss some experiences. I also tested the lenses for potential focus shift and focus inconsistency. Yes - like most lenses - the 45 and the 63 suffer a bit from focus shift, the 23 and 110 I did not see any. In real usage, I did see neither auto-focus errors/inconsistencies of significance at open aperture or stopped down one f-stop nor did I examine focus errors due to eventual focus shift (with any lens) when stopped down. IMO corner-to-corner sharpness at any aperture and lack of aberations of these four lenses is just very very convincing.
I have to admit that I became a 'fanboy' of the GFX system. Coming from Canon 5D and 5DII like many others, then enjoying and getting used to the much higher resolution and dynamic range of the IQ180 and the Sony A7RII, now the Fuji GFX is for me the best over-all system, really hard to find any imperfections in the image result. Maybe I am a bit exaggerating, but in nearly every picture I have the impression it's a bit 'magic' or - for me - 'unseen' before. I can imagine users of the Hasselblad X1D system might share the same feeling.

Two little things in the handling of the GFX I find a bit annoying: First is miss the exposure compensation dial (like in X-T2 and many other cameras). The button to press with the right thumb is too small and too difficult to find while looking through the viewfinder, also the wheel to turn with the index finger of the right hand at the same time is not very tactile. Second the Q button nearby is in too prominent position, I donnot need it and too often press it accidentally. Unfortunately it is impossible to turn off the Q button in the menu or assign another maybe more useful function.
(An off-topic remark: The good thing about the upcoming APS-C format X-H1 is that it seems to be a downscaled GFX, so who is used to the GFX handling will be happy with the X-H1, the bad thing is that it now also lacks the exposure compensation dial and has the Q button in the same location like the GFX ...)
Chris
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Liking a system does not turn you into a fanboy.

To me it seems that there are many good things with the GFX and few bad things.

I have opted out from Diglloyd, I feel that there are far to many strings attached to discussing his findings and I came from a culture where discussions are essential. It is called science, BTW.

But I opted in on his MFD stuff, because I am impressed with the new 44x33 mm systems. To me, those systems make a lot of sense.

For me, it is always about a system that fills your needs and fits within your budget. It seems that Fuji has been quite successful in designing a very good system and I have very little doubt they will develop it much farther.

Thanks for sharing your experience. And just to say, I would say that you are as far from a fanboy you ever can get!

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,
I am a subscriber of Lloyd's site and sometimes contact him to share and discuss some experiences. I also tested the lenses for potential focus shift and focus inconsistency. Yes - like most lenses - the 45 and the 63 suffer a bit from focus shift, the 23 and 110 I did not see any. In real usage, I did see neither auto-focus errors/inconsistencies of significance at open aperture or stopped down one f-stop nor did I examine focus errors due to eventual focus shift (with any lens) when stopped down. IMO corner-to-corner sharpness at any aperture and lack of aberations of these four lenses is just very very convincing.
I have to admit that I became a 'fanboy' of the GFX system. Coming from Canon 5D and 5DII like many others, then enjoying and getting used to the much higher resolution and dynamic range of the IQ180 and the Sony A7RII, now the Fuji GFX is for me the best over-all system, really hard to find any imperfections in the image result. Maybe I am a bit exaggerating, but in nearly every picture I have the impression it's a bit 'magic' or - for me - 'unseen' before. I can imagine users of the Hasselblad X1D system might share the same feeling.

Two little things in the handling of the GFX I find a bit annoying: First is miss the exposure compensation dial (like in X-T2 and many other cameras). The button to press with the right thumb is too small and too difficult to find while looking through the viewfinder, also the wheel to turn with the index finger of the right hand at the same time is not very tactile. Second the Q button nearby is in too prominent position, I donnot need it and too often press it accidentally. Unfortunately it is impossible to turn off the Q button in the menu or assign another maybe more useful function.
(An off-topic remark: The good thing about the upcoming APS-C format X-H1 is that it seems to be a downscaled GFX, so who is used to the GFX handling will be happy with the X-H1, the bad thing is that it now also lacks the exposure compensation dial and has the Q button in the same location like the GFX ...)
Chris
 

Bernard

Member
Otus class is not an overword.
Still, Jim's research indicates that focus shift when stopping down is still an issue.
I'm not sure I follow. Otus lenses are known for their amazing resolution at ultra-large apertures, only resolved on the highest density sensors. Their other notable characteristic is the lack of imperfections like focus shift.
Many tests (including LensRental's) show that the "regular" Zeiss lenses are as good as the Otus lenses when stopped down, or when used with sensors that have a lower pixel count.

The Fuji lenses have relatively small apertures, display focus-shift, and can only be used with one medium-density sensor.

Does "Otus-class" just mean "good" in this context? It seems like it should go without saying. Fuji has a long history of producing high-quality lenses, and only companies like Holga produce new medium format optics that aren't "good."
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
For the above reasons and in spite of the terrific aesthetic produced by the CCD Leica S cameras ....I would tell most to avoid them . If you have one great ..I still have my S 006 and never plan on selling it . I ve seen nothing that touches the S 006 with the 100/2 for shooting people .

The S 007 is a much much better alternative ..they have been available for less than $10K new . I find the S lenses terrific ..best I ve ever used . As a set they are all color matched and produce a similar aesthetic ..I don t think you can best the 24/30/45 for set of wide angles . In fact the only capability I desire in the S system would be more MP . The S 007 was forgotten in evaluations because it was (1) too expensive and (2) only 37.5 MP. If you are serious about the S system go out to REDDOT FORUM and read the articles . Look at David Farkes images from ICELAND . There is nothing old and behind the times with the S 007 . Price is a personal decision its not a Best Buy . :banghead:
I agree with everything you posted, both facts and opinions. I am suddenly the owner of both 007 and 006 models and have to decide which to keep (all four possibilities are on the table :p). They have different characters as mechanisms - the 006 feels less like a computer - and they have different features. What I do know is that no system has given me more pleasure and produced a higher wow! rate than the 006 and S lenses. I'll have to see if the 007 can match that.

--Matt
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Bernard,

The Otus lenses do have focus shift:



But it is clearly less than the Nikon 85/1.4:


The Fuji GFX 110/2.0 has almost no focus shift:


The figures may be hard to compare. Personally, I feel it is better to present data in the image plane. Jim Kasson, who made the tests shown above has also moved in that direction.

Comparing systems, we need to keep equivalence in mind. A 110/2.0 lens on the GFX corresponds to 86/1.56 lens on 24x36 mm not that far from 85/1.4. Both the Otus and the GFX comfortably outresolve any large format sensor today.

Another question is how the lenses perform of axis. Jim doesn't have MTF data of axis, but as far as I recall he found that the GFX with it's lenses outperformed his Sony A7rII combined with the Otuses even of axis, based on actual images.

It is quite probable that the Otus lenses are as good as it gets. But that doesn't mean that other lenses cannot be that good. It seems that a few of the Fuji lenses are as good. But, the GFX has a larger sensor, so any image will need less magnification.

All the Otus lenses are f/1.4, of course. The 110/2.0 is a close match in that sense for the Otus, but I don't think there are 65/2.0 and 35/2.0 lenses.

What really sets the Otus lenses aside that they avoid axial chroma. But, as I recall, the GF lenses also avoid axial chroma, at least according to Jim Kasson's data. Now, why do I put som much confidence in Jim's data? That is because he does real world measurement and shares both protocols and measured data. He also does it for free and open, and he is always open to discuss his findings.

Best regards
Erik




I'm not sure I follow. Otus lenses are known for their amazing resolution at ultra-large apertures, only resolved on the highest density sensors. Their other notable characteristic is the lack of imperfections like focus shift.
Many tests (including LensRental's) show that the "regular" Zeiss lenses are as good as the Otus lenses when stopped down, or when used with sensors that have a lower pixel count.

The Fuji lenses have relatively small apertures, display focus-shift, and can only be used with one medium-density sensor.

Does "Otus-class" just mean "good" in this context? It seems like it should go without saying. Fuji has a long history of producing high-quality lenses, and only companies like Holga produce new medium format optics that aren't "good."
 
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Paratom

Well-known member
if you count the number of people who do post those negative experience with the S in the internet, to which number you get? 10? 20? 30?

I just think some of the discussion do no represent the real world.

We know there are some issues, but there are also problems which can occur with other systems. No system is perfect and failure free.

I am not for or against one brand or system. But I strongly recommend handling systems and talking to people who use systems, and not just rely on some internet opinions. We get very usefull information in the internet, but it is only one part of the whole puzzle.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Yes, and it could deliver very good results if conditions were right.

Stefan Steib, of HCam B1 fame, did compare it with his Canon 5DII or whatever and the Nokia delivered a match. But, the Nokia was single focal length, non interchangeable lens, of course.

The way I see it, small sensors can deliver great results as long as conditions are OK. We really don't need more than 4-10 MP, unless we print, as computer monirtors are seldom more than 8MP and "web size" images are even smaller.

Try to do this very simple experiment:

  • Take a picture with your Leica S, GFX 50, Nikon D850, Sony A7rII and print at 16"x23"
  • Now, downscale that image in Photoshop to 50%, that throws away 75% of the information.
  • Upsize that downscaled image in Photoshop to 200%.
  • Print the image at 16"x23".
I have done that. What did I see? Not a lot of difference! The image that has gone trough the downscale/upscale process actually looked sharper, but it was more brittle.

The point is that our impression is dominated by low frequency detail, and that is maintained trough downsampling/upsampling. The downsampling process creates fake detail and that causes the upsized image to become 'brittle'. I would also assume that Photoshop does some sharpening in downsampling.

The main benefit from having more pixels is that we get a smoother sampling. Any detail the lens delivers but the sensor can not handle will generate fake detail. That fake detail may look real-istic, but will be fake anyway.

Check the very simple comparison below. Four images from DPreview's image comparison tool, downsized to 42 MP resolution. Top left Phase One IQ 3100MP (100 MP), top right Hasselblad X1D (50 MP), bottom left Canon 5DsR (50 MP) and bottom left Sony A7rIII (42 MP).

Capture.jpg
All these images are shown at 42 MP, the lowest resolution.

  • The Phase One IQ3100 MP image is clean. The sensor is probably a good match for the lens.
  • The X1D is sharper than the 5DSR or the Sony A7rIII but it has the most artefacts.

So higher resolution is really beneficial, rendition will be cleaner.

Best regards
Erik


Even the Nokia 808 Pureview in 2012 had more resolution (41MP) than both the S and the Nikon D810.
[
 
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Bernard

Member
The main benefit from having more pixels is that we get a smoother sampling.
[
The main benefit of having a larger sensor is that we get more micro-contrast, simply because we are using the lens higher-up in its MTF curve. A small sensor with 40 MP shows a lens's performance deep in the MTF curve (60lp/mm or more). Contrast at that level is nearly nil. If you use a larger sensor with the same number of pixels, then you are operating in a much more comfortable range (say 30 lp/mm) where contrast is higher.

You can't see micro-contrast at extreme magnifications, especially with targets like printed text. All you are testing is the de-bayering algorithm. If you can see this type of false colour in a print, it means that you are printing too big. Or standing too close.

I am always weary of "tests" that claim to show that a small sensor camera is "just as good" as a larger sensor camera with the same number of pixels. The argument always comes down to the fact that the images look similar when you zoom-in to 400% or more. They both look terrible...

I've done tests with prints, and people always point-out that the medium-format shot looks "more real" or"three dimensional." That's because fine detail is rendered at 50 or 60% contrast, rather than 20% contrast. Skin looks more natural, tonal transitions are smoother, textures look more like they do in real life.

This isn't a new theory. There's a famous Zeiss paper from the 1960s or 70s that says essentially the same thing. Their main conclusion is that micro-contrast is a better determinant of image quality than resolution, and therefore that photographic lenses should be optimized for contrast rather than ultimate resolution (other factors come into play for microscopes, and for microfilm lenses).
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Leica S is old tech and signigicantly less resolution. Even the Nikon D810 was comparable.
Pure Nonsense ! Whats old tech about the S 007 ...the sensor is a newer design than the Sony 50MP being used in the fuji,hb 50mp cameras . The other key component the M2 processor is what 2 years old .

The issue with the S is does it have enough MP for the intended usage . If you shoot primarily 2x3 ....the difference between 37.5 and 50 (on a 4x5 format ) is insignificant . If you do like 4x5 and maybe have a need to crop to a vertical or square format ...yes the Sony sensor has a edge .

I ve used a Nikon d810 extensively with converted Leica R lenses and even the Zeiss OTUS . It is very very good but does not match the S. I used them side by side . If there was a reliable way to focus a manual lens on the new Nikon D850 ...it would be a lot closer .

Again this is a problem of nobody actually using the S 007 and estimating performance based on the S 006 .
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Bernard,

The Phase One IQ3100 is hardly a small sensor camera, it's sensor size 54x40 mm, approximately, having a pixel size around 4.6 microns. That is the camera at the top left, giving the cleanest detail.

It is a well known fact that contrast at the pixel level needs to be reasonably low, say under 10% to avoid artefacts.

Below is a plot of measured MTF of a Planar 100/3.5CF lens on a P45+ back compared with a Sony 90/2.8G lens on a Sony A7rII.


The P45+ back resolves 73 lp/mm. It's pixel size is 6.8 microns, while the Sony is at 4.5 microns, resolving 110 lp/mm. The contrast at Nyquist is significant perhaps 27% on P45+ and around 20% on the Sony. Pixel size on the Sony is similar to the IQ3100.

The image belows shows MTF values up to 300 lp/mm on the Otus 85/1.4 at f/2.0. It is probably a bit better of axis at f/4.


MTF data at 60 lp/mm is not that frequently available, but lens rentals tests down to 50 lp/mm, this is from OLAF Optical Testing's latest test on the Sigma 24-105/4 Art at 70 mm and full aperture, it has over 40% MTF over a large part of the image at 50 lp/mm. So even a decent quality standard zoom can deliver decent MTF at 50 lp/mm and in all probability also at 60 lp/mm.


So the figures you are discussing at 30 and 60 lp/mm is not really relevant. Here is where cameras operate:

Phase One IQ100MP -> 108 lp/mm
Hasselblad X1D -> 93 lp/mm
Leica S -> 83 lp/mm
P45+ (39MP 49x37mm) -> 73 lp/mm
Sony A7rII -> 110 lp/mm
APS-C at 24 MP -> 125 lp/mm

Now, let's do a small experiment. We shoot a one Dollar bill at around 4m distance with an 80 mm lens on the P45+, we get the following image:


Next we shoot the same one Dollar at the same distance with an APS-C camera, having 24 MP and still using an 80 mm lens. The reason we do this is not to compare resolution between the two formats, just to see the effect of pixel size. The resulting image of the one Dollar bill will be larger, so we downsize it to the same size:


The smaller pixels yield a much cleaner image.

Now, we can take the P45+ image again, but shoot at f/16, so we let diffraction reduce contrast at Nyquist to near zero, and apply aggressive sharpening:


Brandon Dube works for different labs, including OLAF Optical Testing and also works on optical simulation for NASA. Brandon has a very nice article about the effects lens and pixel parameters on 8K television images. 8K is around 42MP, but this time it is extracted from an APS-C size sensor.
Here is Brandon's article: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/10/the-8k-conundrum-when-bad-lenses-mount-good-sensors/

Just to say, NHK (Japanese television) has a 133 MP sensor in approximately 24x36 mm size (43 mm diagonal but 16:9 aspect ratio) with a complete RGBG quartet for each image pixel. It was developed by Forza Semiconductor. It will be used for the Tokyo Olympic Games.

Please realize that much research has been done on image quality. I would also make the subtle point that I own and have been using a P45+ back for something like 4.5 years, so I have experience large sensor cameras.

Best regards
Erik Kaffehr






The main benefit of having a larger sensor is that we get more micro-contrast, simply because we are using the lens higher-up in its MTF curve. A small sensor with 40 MP shows a lens's performance deep in the MTF curve (60lp/mm or more). Contrast at that level is nearly nil. If you use a larger sensor with the same number of pixels, then you are operating in a much more comfortable range (say 30 lp/mm) where contrast is higher.

You can't see micro-contrast at extreme magnifications, especially with targets like printed text. All you are testing is the de-bayering algorithm. If you can see this type of false colour in a print, it means that you are printing too big. Or standing too close.

I am always weary of "tests" that claim to show that a small sensor camera is "just as good" as a larger sensor camera with the same number of pixels. The argument always comes down to the fact that the images look similar when you zoom-in to 400% or more. They both look terrible...

I've done tests with prints, and people always point-out that the medium-format shot looks "more real" or"three dimensional." That's because fine detail is rendered at 50 or 60% contrast, rather than 20% contrast. Skin looks more natural, tonal transitions are smoother, textures look more like they do in real life.

This isn't a new theory. There's a famous Zeiss paper from the 1960s or 70s that says essentially the same thing. Their main conclusion is that micro-contrast is a better determinant of image quality than resolution, and therefore that photographic lenses should be optimized for contrast rather than ultimate resolution (other factors come into play for microscopes, and for microfilm lenses).
 

DB5

Member
if you count the number of people who do post those negative experience with the S in the internet, to which number you get? 10? 20? 30?

I just think some of the discussion do no represent the real world.

We know there are some issues, but there are also problems which can occur with other systems. No system is perfect and failure free.

I am not for or against one brand or system. But I strongly recommend handling systems and talking to people who use systems, and not just rely on some internet opinions. We get very usefull information in the internet, but it is only one part of the whole puzzle.
Why? because you don't want to believe it?

We're not talking about one or two lemons here. We are talking about multiple and serious flaws that are widespread and still effecting equipment.

It's about as real world as you can get.
 

Bernard

Member
Erik,

You missed my main point. If your prints have important detail at or near the Nyquist frequency, you are either printing too large, or going for a deliberate distortion effect. It's something I see all the time in fine art galleries, and to be honest, I think the effect is not deliberate most of the time. Artists often print too large for their own good; they confuse the visual impact of a larger print with the visual impact of great content.

I am not sure why you are comparing a medium format lens that was designed 50 years ago, for film imaging, with a modern 35mm-format lens. This thread was originally about the Leica S system, which features modern lenses that are very bit as good as anything available for smaller formats.

Even so, your graph proves my point. At 60 lp/mm, the Sony has a contrast of 55%. At 30 lp/mm, the old Zeiss lens has a contrast of 70%. That's a significant difference in a print. Fine detail that is captured at 60 lp/mm on a smaller Sony a7 sensor would be in the 30 lp/mm range on a P45 sensor (which is twice as large).

Imagine what a modern S lens can do. The closest effective magnification to a 90mm on 35mm in the S system is the 120, and it has more than 80% contrast at 40 lp/mm in the centre at optimum aperture! Even wide open at f:2.5, it has higher contrast than the Sony 90mm lens at f:2.8.

The difference isn't even subtle at that level. The S system allows you to use better lenses, at lower magnifications, compared to top-tier 35mm systems. The result of that double advantage is more life-like frequency response throughout the tonal range of your prints.
The same can be argued of other medium format systems sold by PhaseOne, Hasselblad and Fuji. They all have an "unfair advantage" compared to 35mm. Their imaging systems are much less stressed at similar print sizes.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Why? because you don't want to believe it?

We're not talking about one or two lemons here. We are talking about multiple and serious flaws that are widespread and still effecting equipment.

It's about as real world as you can get.
I just doubt it is as widespread and happens as often as some people suggest, some of them never having experienced a faulty S006 sensor or faulty AF motor themselves and it does not mirror my own experience. Thats all.
Probably one of my S-lenses will fail tomorrow since I wrote this ;) But even if one of the 8 lenses failed now after using it for years I would not see the whole system as flawed. But it is certainly good that people know that it can happen if you buy a used S lens or S006 body. By the way I had faulty AF motors in a Pentax and in A Nikon 70-200/2.8VR lens in the past, so it is not something which can only happen with Leica lenses.
 

John_McMaster

Active member
I have S2-P and S(007) with most of the lenses, had sensor and several motors replaced but still happy with the system. When the Nikon D800E came out I tried it, Zeiss ZF2 35/2 against M9 with current 35 Summilux, and sold it again within weeks. Despite being 36MP vs 18MP I knew which I preferred for my use. I bought a Fuji X-T1 when it came out, again sold soon after as it was not an enjoyable experience shooting with it and the results were not as good as many others seem to find. The S system still has subtlety over any high MP 24x36 sensor as well as 16bit, I rarely use my M system since I bought the S(007).

john
 
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